DX bonus with feats possible for Dwarven Waraxe but not for Rapier?


Rules Questions


There are 2 feats giving DX bonus for damage instead of ST.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/slashing-grace-combat

This only works with scimitar.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/dervish-dance-combat

This works with any "one-handed slashing weapon (such as the longsword)" or such as a dwarven waraxe if either dwarf or having exotic weapon proficiency.

Since my intution indicates that it should be less complicated to make use of DX with a rapier than with a dwarven waraxe, i suspect i might miss a feat or a rule. Is there any other way except agile to gain DX bonus on Rapier or any other one handed piercing or light weapon?

If not, was there any general "flavor" idea behind dexterous people preffering waraxes over rapiers?

Contributor

There's a feat that allows you to use Dex to damage with rapiers in Advanced Class Origins.


Alexander Augunas wrote:
There's a feat that allows you to use Dex to damage with rapiers in Advanced Class Origins.

Ok, that explains the rapier archetype for swashbuckler.

But leaves all light weapons to be still bad choices for high dx.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

Light weapons can have the Agile enchantment, which allows dex to damage.


blackbloodtroll wrote:
Light weapons can have the Agile enchantment, which allows dex to damage.

I know, but thats magic and expensive. If pure training is applied and a dexterous recruit shows up, training of daggers and other light stuff will mostly be secondary because it is known that dexterous people can make far more use of their dexterity with heavier weapons.

And even with magic, agile takes away - 1 to and -1 to dam and is not available before about lev 6, while the feat based dex damage is available lev 1 - 3.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber

How many ways do we need to have Dex to damage?


blackbloodtroll wrote:
How many ways do we need to have Dex to damage?

I do not care, i was just irritated about that "Wait, you are a very dexterous dwarf, dont take that light and quick 1 lb dagger, thats only for strong people, instead use this 8 lb dwarven waraxe to train with." and thought i missed/misunderstood some rule/feat.


carn wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
How many ways do we need to have Dex to damage?
I do not care, i was just irritated about that "Wait, you are a very dexterous dwarf, dont take that light and quick 1 lb dagger, thats only for strong people, instead use this 8 lb dwarven waraxe to train with." and thought i missed/misunderstood some rule/feat.

Yeah, it does seem odd that you could do more damage with an 8lb war axe than with a 1lb dagger...


Durngrun Stonebreaker wrote:
carn wrote:
blackbloodtroll wrote:
How many ways do we need to have Dex to damage?
I do not care, i was just irritated about that "Wait, you are a very dexterous dwarf, dont take that light and quick 1 lb dagger, thats only for strong people, instead use this 8 lb dwarven waraxe to train with." and thought i missed/misunderstood some rule/feat.
Yeah, it does seem odd that you could do more damage with an 8lb war axe than with a 1lb dagger...

Odd is, that for a high ST and low DX the choice of one handed weapon is not that critical (ST 18, DX 6, dagger 6 dam, waraxe 9.5, a relevant but not crippling difference, dagger can be hidden more easily and be used in close combat and be thrown, difference gets less relevant with further bonuses), while with low ST and high DX waraxe or other is must have over dagger (ST 6, DX 18, dagger 1 dam, waraxe 9.5 with correct feats, thats a large difference). So strong people might use daggers, weak and dexterous people must use scimitars, longswords, bastard swords, dwarven waraxe and all other qualifying for the respective feats.

But anyway, RPGs are not for musing about such things, i just suspected some missed rule, but there wasnt any.


Sigh:

Exotic Weapon Proficiency - Aldori Dueling Sword - Allows use of Weapon Finesse
Weapon Finesse
Slashing Grace
put a 13 into Strength and Add power Attack - one handed only but still good


Unklbuck wrote:

Sigh:

Exotic Weapon Proficiency - Aldori Dueling Sword - Allows use of Weapon Finesse
Weapon Finesse
Slashing Grace
put a 13 into Strength and Add power Attack - one handed only but still good

Don't forget Weapon Focus - Aldori Dueling Sword

Grand Lodge

This has come up a few times on the boards.

The common reasonings it takes 4-5 feats and a level dip for any DEX based character to be almost as good as a normal STR based combatant are:

"Shut Up"

"Pazio does not want STR to be a dump stat."

"Pazio hates dexterity."

I do not agree with any of the above, but that is the only answers you find.

(Takes a 1 level dip in swashbuckler to get finesse with all piercing light and one handed weapons) (4-5 feats are, Exotic Weapon Proficiency[whip or Aldori Dueling Sword, those are the only 2 options for dex to hit and dmg] Weapon Focus(req for Grace), Weapon Finesse, Slashing Grace, Agile Maneuvers)

Grand Lodge

You can use Slashing Grace with a dwarven waraxe but you will not be able to finesse it (as in dex to hit) unless you also take a level in swashbuckler. Aldori Dueling Sword and Whip are the only two weapons that you can have both dex to hit and damage without also being a swashbuckler.


claudekennilol wrote:
You can use Slashing Grace with a dwarven waraxe but you will not be able to finesse it (as in dex to hit) unless you also take a level in swashbuckler. Aldori Dueling Sword and Whip are the only two weapons that you can have both dex to hit and damage without also being a swashbuckler.

Damn, i missed that. So the weaklings have the choice of either hitting od doing damage unless they use an aldori dueling sword or a whip.

But scimitar and dervish dance combat feat also give dx to hit and dam, only it requires a hand free.

Grand Lodge

carn wrote:
claudekennilol wrote:
You can use Slashing Grace with a dwarven waraxe but you will not be able to finesse it (as in dex to hit) unless you also take a level in swashbuckler. Aldori Dueling Sword and Whip are the only two weapons that you can have both dex to hit and damage without also being a swashbuckler.

Damn, i missed that. So the weaklings have the choice of either hitting od doing damage unless they use an aldori dueling sword or a whip.

But scimitar and dervish dance combat feat also give dx to hit and dam, only it requires a hand free.

Right, that works for scimitars. I just went all over this in detail on Friday when I was making my dex based magus. I ended up using a rapier and I'm waiting for Advanced Class Origins to come out for Fencing Grace.


I guess fencing grace requires a free hand?

I suspect, because the rapier archetype of swashbuckler is not proficient with bucklers.

Grand Lodge

This is what was spoiled to us a month ago, it could have changed since then

Quote:

FENCING GRACE (COMBAT)

Your extreme style and fluid rapier forms allow you to use agility rather than brute force to fell your foes.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (rapier).
Benefit: When wielding a rapier one-handed, you can add your Dexterity modifier instead of your Strength modifier to that weapon’s damage. The rapier must be one appropriate for your size.
In addition, if you have the panache class feature, you gain a +2 bonus to CMD against attempts to disarm you of your rapier while you have at least 1 panache point.

It doesn't say anything about needing an offhand free.

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