natural attacks bloodrager advice

[Hyanda]

Hello! Posted a few times about builds, but narrowed it down. I am thinking about making a half orc bloodrager with the abbysal blood line, with the toothy alt racial ability, giving me a bite and two claws right off the bat. We are playing emerald spire with these characters, and it is looking like I'm the damage dealer. Looking for advice to make this a powerhouse, or advice if this isn't gonna be a good choice for the powerhouse. Thanks

[Eltacolibre]

Just need power attack and that's it really, the rest adapt to the situation.

Emerald Spire was made like an old school dungeon, as in levels are widely different and creatures of all kind to challenge you. So won't spoil much but be ready for nearly anything.

[Hyanda]

Would you think this is an effective build? I was gonna go faster, but didn't want to have my damage resource be something thst is limited to a few uses per day, so I figured melee was the best choice. And I can't be disarmed or breakmy weapons. But never really gone this route before

[Dispari Scuro]

Pick the primalist archetype. That allows you to trade some of your bloodline powers for rage powers. The 8th level power is neat, but not the best, and you could trade it for two rage powers instead. Namely, Fiend Totem (Lesser) which gives you an extra gore attack, putting you up to 4 natural attacks at level 8.

Your other option is to go down the beast totem tree, the first of which will sadly be pointless, but at level 12, you can have pounce.

Primalist also lets you pick up some really useful rage powers like reckless abandon.

[Chess Pwn]

um... I think you've picked basically the strongest thing you can. There's a thread about the strongest lv4 character and your build was suggested a few times.

[Hyanda]

This is good news. Next question is, how does bonus attacks add on when you get to bab 6? Do you just pick a claw or bite to add the extra attack ?

[Eltacolibre]

Natural attacks don't work with iterative attacks but, if you wield a weapon, you can use your natural attacks as secondary attacks with your greatsword for example, well not all of them, because you would be wielding the greatsword.

[Chess Pwn]

natural attacks don't get bonus attacks from BAB. That's the trade off and you're better off with natural attacks. You have 3 at full BAB, iteratives would have 1 at full 1 at -5 and bite at -5. Though this will do more damage if all of them hit. 1.5+1.5+.5=3.5str compared to the 3str if all hit from your natural attacks.

[Hyanda]

Hmm ok, so basically I'll probably do more damage since I'll likely hit most of the time with all attacks. Next question. Is there a way to gain more attacks, or what's the way to up the damage dice/raw damage ?

[Eltacolibre]

Haste like effects (too many of them to cite) and if you have druids or hunters in your party, they can cast magic fangs and the likes on you. Those would be the simplest ways, I'm sure there are other options but usually require to jump through many hoops.

[Chess Pwn]

as Dispari Scuro said, going primalist and chaos totem can get you a gore attack. But other than that not that I know of. claw and bite are the most common ones to get if you get any.

for upping the damage, higher str ups damage. power attack, arcane strike, reckless rage, being a Rageshaper BR can increase your claw damage some.

[Hyanda]

Thanks for the tips. Any advice on items to save up for ?

[Chess Pwn]

If you're wanting to stick with natural attacks the entire time, an Amulet of Mighty fists will be the only way to enhance your natural attacks. belt of str /(and con).

[Rambear]

Tips:

Take Eldritch Heritage: Orc for the + strength bloodline power and for Touch of Rage. Combined with the abyssal bloodrage at level 12 you'd get to massive strength levels.

Additionally, at level 13 take Quicken Spell-like Ability for Orc Touch of Rage. Add in a Ring of Lingering Blood magic and you will have many fun times. Continuously adding your (CL-2)/2 to your hit, damage and will saves is pwetty pwetty sweet. (At level 10 you'd get +4)

Do not, I repeat, do not drop your level 12 bloodline power for greater beast totem. Pounce is good, but not worth losing +6 strength during rage (well, depends what level the campaign will max out at).
Rageshaper is also a decent choice.

You could think about a 2-level dip into Master of Many Styles for Pummeling Style/Charge and Dragon Style/Dragon Ferocity, though it's a hefty feat investment as you'll need feral combat training and then it'd still only apply to one form of natural attacks. So maybe not.

Obviously level 5 Arcane Strike and Level 7 Blooded Arcane Strike are smart feat choices.

I used the following build for a Draconic Bloodrager (dropping level 8 and 12 powers for Animal Fury and the Beast Totem Rage Powers):

Half-Elf Bloodrager (Draconic) 20
St: 18 (+1 at 4,8,12 and 16) Dex: 12 Con: 15 Int: 9 Wis: 10 Cha: 15
1: Bloodrager Bloodrage, Fast Movement, Bloodline Power: Claws (Draconic Bloodline), Raging Vitality. Skill Focus: Survival
2: Bloodrager Uncanny Dodge
3: Bloodrager Power Attack, Blood Sanctuary
4: Bloodrager Blood Casting, Bloodline Power: Draconic Resistances, Eschew Materials (Bonus).
5: Bloodrager Improved Uncanny Dodge, Arcane Strike
6: Bloodrager Toughness (Bonus)
7: Bloodrager DR 1/ -, Blooded Arcane Strike
8: Bloodrager Primalist (Barbarian Rage Powers Lesser Beast Totem +Animal Fury)
9: Bloodrager Eldritch Heritage (Orc: Touch of Rage), Intimidating Prowess(Bonus)
10: Bloodrager DR 2/-
11: Bloodrager Greater Bloodrage, Improved Eldritch Heritage: Strength of the Beast
12: Bloodrager Primalist Rage Powers Beast Totem Normal and Greater), Improved Initiative (Bonus)
13: Bloodrager DR 3/ -, Raging Brutality
14: Bloodrager Indomitable Will
15: Bloodrager Quicken Spell-like Ability (Touch of Rage), Blind-Fighting(Bonus)
16: Bloodrager Bloodline Power: Dragon Form, DR 4/ -
17: Bloodrager Tireless Bloodrage, Greater Eldritch Heritage Orc: Strength of Giants
18: Bloodrager Great Fortitude (Bonus)
19: Bloodrager DR 5/ -
20: Bloodrager Mighty Bloodrage, Bloodline Power: Power of Wyrms

Good at low levels, great at level 16 and onwards because: Being a Dragon Pewpew.

[Hyanda]

Hmmmm. Interesting thanks for sharing.

[KnotAguru]

I'm working on something similar to Rambear's build, but using rageshaper archetype combined with primalist. If the campaign reaches level 16+ it's amazing. I feel that animal fury ragepower is not needed though (you get a bite attack when you're a dragon). Here's a sample of what the build offers:

At level 16, rage (free action) into a large dragon (via dragon form). Your attack damage dice are increased to huge (via beastial aspect). You gain one bite (2d8), two claws (2d6), two wing attacks (1d8), and one tail slap attack (2d6) with full strength bonus.

You strength bonuses at level 20: +8 mighty bloodrage, +6 strength of the beast (orc bloodline), +6 size bonus (form of the dragon), +magic/item enhancement and level bonuses...you could easily have a 50 strength. That's full strength bonus (+20 with a 50 strength) on 6 attacks during a pounce, you can fly, have a breath weapon, damage reduction, high AC, resistances...

Oh, you still get to have a free casting of a touch spell (via greater/mighty bloodrage). I like frostbite, which adds 1d6+lvl nonleathal cold damage. That's 6d6+120 EXTRA damage at lvl 20 on top of 6 natural attacks +6 x strength mod. That's sure to kill most things.

Did I mention that all happens as a free action? :)

[Rambear]

Rageshaper actualiteit increase all natural attacks gained from your bloodline. FotD II comes from your bloodline, implying all attacks in said form benefit from bestial aspect.

The reason for Animal's Fury is that it kicks in at level 8, and only having two natural attacks till level 16 is meh. And I dislike the racial options to get a bite for RP reasons. A half-orc or Tiefling would not have these issues.

But yeah, I calculated DPR against a solar and at level, assuming Touch of Rage, Heroism, Haste, a Belt of +6 Str/Con and an AoMF +5 I ended with ~470 damage per rond, excluding crit damage.

Sure, post a certain level you end-up playing rocket-tag anyway, but with half-orc and the fiend totem gore you'd even rock at lower levels.

You could even go RAGEBRED skinwalker for ultimate natural attack goodness.