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I'm not even sure why these home raids are necessary. There was a case here in the Twin cities with a mhong family. The police kicked the door in at 1am on a "solid tip". Scared the father so bad he came out shooting. The police unloaded and turned the house into Swiss cheese. The only thing fortunate about the story is no one managed to get shot or killed. House was full of sleeping children. City said Sorry hope you can manage to clean that up. The police were awarded medals for bravery; I'm not kidding.
I think this belongs in the government stupidity thread-in its current form it's gong to cause problems.
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I'm sure there are cases where they are necessary. Sure as hell overused though. No-knock warrants should be rare and there should be serious penalties for requesting or authorizing improperly. Or for getting the wrong address.
A "solid tip" does not qualify. "We've observed armed gangmembers going in and out" is more like it.
Yeah can they not put surveillance on the place and pick a moment when children are not present?
No charges for Georgia officers who maimed toddler during no-knock drug raid
"The boy will likely need similar surgeries every two years until he is 20 years old to repair badly damaged nerve endings in his face and additional plastic surgery throughout his life, the attorney said.
"The county has said it would not pay for the child’s medical bills, arguing that the board of commissioners was not legally permitted to pay for them."
What a scumbag. "Oh, gee, the drug-addled confidential informant who purchased meth didn't say anything about kids..."
Only Workers Revolution Will Avenge Bounkham “Bou Bou” Phonesavanh!
Yeah, baby! Gimme some of that Black Prophetic Fire!!!
Also, All Out to Ferguson's Coming "Weekend of Resistance!" - Oct 10-13!
Vive le Galt!!!
Although, to be honest, I'm not going. I can hardly afford to go to Boston on the weekends, I can't go to St. Louis.
Yeah can they not put surveillance on the place and pick a moment when children are not present?I'm sure there are cases where they are necessary. Sure as hell overused though. No-knock warrants should be rare and there should be serious penalties for requesting or authorizing improperly. Or for getting the wrong address.
A "solid tip" does not qualify. "We've observed armed gangmembers going in and out" is more like it.
Nah, if they conducted actual police work they might have learned that the entire raid was unnecessary. Then they couldn't use their fancy new military equipment, and then they would have to give it back.
It's much more beneficial for local police to just kick you in the face and crash into your house with their armored personnel carrier, than it is to do their actual jobs.
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How is this situation any different than if a cop was shooting a gun and hit some random, innocent person?
I think there are criteria for instances where this is acceptable. Though Police do need to be mindful of discharging their weapons and in the right instance could be disciplined or even charged. The situation needs to be put in context.
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I like how everyone is blaming the police instead of the scumbag methheads using their child's playpen to barricade the door.
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This outcome, though terrible, is a symptom. The problem is a society which authorizes its police to play Navy Seal with its own citizens in the name of "protecting" them.
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I like how everyone is blaming the police instead of the scumbag methheads using their child's playpen to barricade the door.
You mean the children's playpen that was looking out the window (crazy place for it, I know) of the family where no drugs were found?
I like how everyone is blaming the police instead of the scumbag methheads using their child's playpen to barricade the door.You mean the children's playpen that was looking out the window (crazy place for it, I know) of the family where no drugs were found?
Maybe you read a different article but they said it was in front of the door, not a window. In front of the door is a terrible place because if there is a fire you now have an obstacle between you and safety. In front of a window isn't any better. Aside from the inherent dangers of a low income neighborhood, the greatest temperature fluctuations inside a house are by the windows. The playpen should have been placed next to an interior wall overnight.
I like how everyone is blaming the police instead of the scumbag methheads using their child's playpen to barricade the door.To my understanding the people in the house had nothing to do with drugs and the person they were actually looking for was found in a different house later on.
That aside, I'm sure even druggies, if they knew that grenades were going to be thrown at them, wouldn't have their children in the line of fire.
It was the correct house, the suspect was not home at the time. The child belonged to a relative who was staying there.
I'm not entirely certain how a flash bang clears out an obstruction. I would like to know their reasoning behind that.
I like how everyone is blaming the police instead of the scumbag methheads using their child's playpen to barricade the door.To my understanding the people in the house had nothing to do with drugs and the person they were actually looking for was found in a different house later on.
If the house had nothing to do with drugs, no "drug residue" would have been found.
That aside, I'm sure even druggies, if they knew that grenades were going to be thrown at them, wouldn't have their children in the line of fire.
You don't know many drug addicts, do you?
It was the right house, but the people inside of it were relatives (as Durngrun mentions) and had nothing to do with the drugs.If the house had nothing to do with drugs, no "drug residue" would have been found.I like how everyone is blaming the police instead of the scumbag methheads using their child's playpen to barricade the door.To my understanding the people in the house had nothing to do with drugs and the person they were actually looking for was found in a different house later on.
And now their kid has been grievously injured because of their choice to associate with people like that.
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It was the right house, but the people inside of it were relatives (as Durngrun mentions) and had nothing to do with the drugs.If the house had nothing to do with drugs, no "drug residue" would have been found.I like how everyone is blaming the police instead of the scumbag methheads using their child's playpen to barricade the door.To my understanding the people in the house had nothing to do with drugs and the person they were actually looking for was found in a different house later on.And now their kid has been grievously injured because of their choice to associate with people like that.
Yes it's totally their fault they have drug dealers in their family.
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If the house had nothing to do with drugs, no "drug residue" would have been found.
Pull a bill out of your wallet. Any bill. Analyze it for "drug residue". Unless your bill was just printed last week, I guarantee it'll test positive. Houses in low income areas I'm less certain about, but I wouldn't be at all surprised.
Police today routinely overstep the bounds of common sense, decency, and the rule of law (although not necessarily the law itself, which also increasingly oversteps the aforementioned bounds). B+@#~ing about it on the Internet is not going to change anything though.
Yes it's totally their fault they have drug dealers in their family.It was the right house, but the people inside of it were relatives (as Durngrun mentions) and had nothing to do with the drugs.If the house had nothing to do with drugs, no "drug residue" would have been found.I like how everyone is blaming the police instead of the scumbag methheads using their child's playpen to barricade the door.To my understanding the people in the house had nothing to do with drugs and the person they were actually looking for was found in a different house later on.And now their kid has been grievously injured because of their choice to associate with people like that.
Nope, but they did choose to stay with that relative.
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Yes it's totally their fault they have drug dealers in their family.It was the right house, but the people inside of it were relatives (as Durngrun mentions) and had nothing to do with the drugs.If the house had nothing to do with drugs, no "drug residue" would have been found.I like how everyone is blaming the police instead of the scumbag methheads using their child's playpen to barricade the door.To my understanding the people in the house had nothing to do with drugs and the person they were actually looking for was found in a different house later on.And now their kid has been grievously injured because of their choice to associate with people like that.
It's their fault for continuing to associate with them, up to the point they actually brought their child into the house.
I have drug dealers in my family.
I don't associate with them.
If the house had nothing to do with drugs, no "drug residue" would have been found.Pull a bill out of your wallet. Any bill. Analyze it for "drug residue". Unless your bill was just printed last week, I guarantee it'll test positive. Houses in low income areas I'm less certain about, but I wouldn't be at all surprised.
An informant had actually purchased meth FROM THAT HOUSE earlier. Stop trying to pretend these people are innocent, and everything relating to drugs was coincidental or caused by circumstances besides them making and selling drugs.
Police today routinely overstep the bounds of common sense, decency, and the rule of law (although not necessarily the law itself, which also increasingly oversteps the aforementioned bounds). B$$!#ing about it on the Internet is not going to change anything though.
Common sense: The man was known to previously be armed and dangerous, and likely a drug user. The door was barricaded. Throwing a flashbang (a nonlethal weapon that disorients the target) was a good option.
Decency: There was no reason to suspect that there was anybody in the house besides two potentially armed drug dealers, and certainly no reason to assume that somebody in the house was bumf@#% stupid enough to put a child's playpen right in front of the damn door.
Rule of Law: Should be self explanatory.
The only reason this is getting news coverage is because the child was injured...which he would not have been if his parents hadn't been stupid and irresponsible enough to associate with known drug dealers and put their child in that house, directly in front of the door.
The police in question did nothing wrong here. They didn't use lethal force, quite the opposite in fact. It was a measured response that went tragically wrong because of circumstances beyond their control.
Get mad over ACTUAL police brutality and general incompetence. There's plenty of that to go around.
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Do you mean the incompetence of raiding a house when you have no idea of who or what is in there?
@Rynjin and Vod
You do realize not everyone has multiple choices when it comes to places to stay, right?
Also, the person in question had a "previous weapon charge," not a conviction. Do you write off any and all family that have had a run in with the police?
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Do you mean the incompetence of raiding a house when you have no idea of who or what is in there?
This was a SWAT team. They work with the information they are given. SWAT teams are not meant to investigate, that's what the regular police force is for.
I mean, I know it's hip and edgy to hate the police and all, but please.
Now, we can go into how the regular police force dropped the ball here by not confirming any info, but these particular officers hold no blame here, as everyone seems to assume they do.
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Stop trying to pretend these people are innocent, and everything relating to drugs was coincidental or caused by circumstances besides them making and selling drugs.
I merely pointed out that the fact that "drug residue" was found somewhere does not make that somewhere a current "drug dealing" location.
As for the rest, I should have known better to post in this thread in the first place. You can return to your usual whatever now. I'm outta here.
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Rynjin, I'm not sure anyone has said "This SWAT Team" is incompetent. They are saying the police force is. Which you did not refute. The police should've investigated before sending in the brute squad.
And calling it "hip and edgy" is just be a dismissive jerk. The Police have been doing horrible things and no has been held accountable and they continue to do horrible things. It's a problem that we should all be against, not some "trend".
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"Hip and edgy?"
Whatever.
I don't care who takes the blame, but "baby takes grenade to face" is a thing that should not happen. Ever.
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Do you mean the incompetence of raiding a house when you have no idea of who or what is in there?This was a SWAT team. They work with the information they are given. SWAT teams are not meant to investigate, that's what the regular police force is for.
I mean, I know it's hip and edgy to hate the police and all, but please.
Now, we can go into how the regular police force dropped the ball here by not confirming any info, but these particular officers hold no blame here, as everyone seems to assume they do.
The SWAT team, made up of 6 or 7 officers (the department wont say exactly how many) from the local sheriff and police departments. Apparently getting assigned to a special team means you get to ignore the rest of your duties as an officer.
Not to mention other articles say the person they were looking for no longer lived in the home
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I was getting the drug dealer no longer living in the house baby getting flashbanged story confused with the no drugs ever in the house cops shoot guy through the wall. In the later story cops used a tip from the guy who stole their car to get the warrant.
These swat team assaults on innocents are hard to keep straight.
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These swat team assaults on innocents are hard to keep straight.
Well these so-called "innocents" should have known better than to get in the way of the police! ;-)
Whether or not the blame lies on the police for their actions (I'm still bothered by the warrantless thing, as that really seems to go against the intent of the US constitution), they ARE responsible for the child's injuries. The county should pay for medical expenses and more...period.
If the county doesn't like it, stop invading houses without knowing who and what is there.
I think a good lawyer could actually get not only medical and a little more paid for, but millions of dollars from the county in damages. (quality of life, etc).
Simply paying out medical and a little more to avoid a lawsuit would be the wisest course of action for the county.
On the otherhand, I would urge the child's guardians (whoever that is now) to sue the county on the scale of 10 to 20 million (at least).
This is a case (particularly due to the child's injuries) that screams to be used as an example case...and the county right now is the perfect target and should be easy to win against in this instance from what I've heard in this thread.
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Yes it's totally their fault they have drug dealers in their family.It was the right house, but the people inside of it were relatives (as Durngrun mentions) and had nothing to do with the drugs.If the house had nothing to do with drugs, no "drug residue" would have been found.I like how everyone is blaming the police instead of the scumbag methheads using their child's playpen to barricade the door.To my understanding the people in the house had nothing to do with drugs and the person they were actually looking for was found in a different house later on.And now their kid has been grievously injured because of their choice to associate with people like that.
It's their fault for continuing to associate with them, up to the point they actually brought their child into the house.
I have drug dealers in my family.
I don't associate with them.
If the house had nothing to do with drugs, no "drug residue" would have been found.Pull a bill out of your wallet. Any bill. Analyze it for "drug residue". Unless your bill was just printed last week, I guarantee it'll test positive. Houses in low income areas I'm less certain about, but I wouldn't be at all surprised.An informant had actually purchased meth FROM THAT HOUSE earlier. Stop trying to pretend these people are innocent, and everything relating to drugs was coincidental or caused by circumstances besides them making and selling drugs.
Police today routinely overstep the bounds of common sense, decency, and the rule of law (although not necessarily the law itself, which also increasingly oversteps the aforementioned bounds). B$$!#ing about it on the Internet is not going to change anything though.Common sense: The man was known to previously be armed and dangerous,...
going to need to get at least one citation of your version of events here. This goes against everything I have read on this thus far, and you seem to have a great level of knowledge - the door was barricaded with a crib? That sounds almost too stupid to be believed, but I'm sure my crib ended up in weird places as a kid. Where are you getting your info from?
From the article linked at the top.
It says right in there the crib was blocking the door. The original article I read on the subject a day or two ago said the same thing.
...Common sense: The man was known to previously be armed and dangerous,...
First of all, I think he was know to have a weapons charge. As someone who has has a weapons (rifle to be specific) related charge on there record, yet has never owned, and only fired real guns once (years later), I can tell you that a weapons charge has nothing to do with being armed and dangerous.
The bottom line is that busting in people doors and throwing flash-bangs around is very dangerous for all involved. You should only do it when it is absolutely necessary. It was very clearly NOT needed in this situation. That means the police f-d up, and should be held accountable for their actions just like any other person who busts into a strangers house and maims a kid.
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Do you mean the incompetence of raiding a house when you have no idea of who or what is in there?This was a SWAT team. They work with the information they are given. SWAT teams are not meant to investigate, that's what the regular police force is for.
I mean, I know it's hip and edgy to hate the police and all, but please.
Now, we can go into how the regular police force dropped the ball here by not confirming any info, but these particular officers hold no blame here, as everyone seems to assume they do.
By your logic it is the SWAT officers fault for choosing to associate with terrible corrupt lazy defective-human detectives. Basically they are terrible people by association and their babies deserve to have their faces burned off. That is, according to your logic.
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If we never punish officers for doing stupid, dangerous, and bad things, they will continue to do those things. They need to start being held accountable for damages.
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We are.looking at thing with full 20/20 after-sight. Its easy to armchair quarterback with all of that info.
The SWAT team knew what they had been told, and what was right in front of them. They also didn't have the luxury of time to mull over their decisions. In their chosen profession, a moment of hesitation can cost lives...their lives, their colleges' lives, and/or the lives of innocents/victims.
If you are going to judge their actions, these considerations MUST be taken into account.