| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I saw a few people posted their house rules so I though I would see what people thought of the ones I use in my campaign.
Game Rules
Have Fun! Role-play!
Show everyone respect - no rudeness, racial / gender / sexual orientation comments, political or religious discussions. To keep the game fun and flowing for everyone, out-of-character political correctness is a must. IC comments are a different story, of course.
No extreme topics should be role-played. Torture, rape, graphic abuse of women and children, and the like are not appropriate for our game.
DO NOT METAGAME! There is a large amount of lore available on the wiki as well as IG. You most likely don't know much if not most of it in-character. Please, keep what you know in-character and out-of-character separated.
Attendance - everyone should try to be on time to game sessions and let us know if they are unable to attend. With the internet, smartphones, and forums, anyone is only 60 seconds from a quick post to let other players know they cannot make it.
Game Rules Sourcebooks
The Core Rulebook and other paizo core rules (Advanced Player's, Race, and Class Guides, and Ultimate Combat / Magic / Equipment / Campaign) are acceptable for use. The Pathfinder SRD includes all of the permitted rules used in Mazariim campaigns.
No 3rd party sources are allowed, save those the DM introduces during a campaign (new spells / feats / items).
The DM reserves the right to limit, change, or remove any rules or materials not from the Core Rulebook as needed for campaign balance.
Ability scores
- Points: 20 points
- RPing Low Statistics: Many people place low scores into stats they do not think they need. This is fine in many regards, but as this is a game with a RP focus, remember: if you take starting stats below 10, make sure to role-play those stats.
--Low STR: Cannot carry much, cannot swing heavy weapons, draw longbows or composite longbows, or wear heavy armor.
--Low CON: Tire out quickly, almost always suffering from some kind of illness such as a cold.
--Low DEX: Clumsy, bump into things a lot, trip up, dance poorly.
--Low WIS: Neurotic, not quite in touch with reality. A little crazy, blames things on conspiracies, superstitious. Unable to reason out or piece together information. No common sense.
--Low INT: Difficulty learning, speech impediments (slurring, stuttering, poor grammar). Unable to apply information to a given task or understand information.
--Low CHA: Unable to persuade others, anti-social, word things harshly, likely to unintentionally offend someone with what you say. Poor communicator or ineffective leader.
- Charisma is a measure of not only internal personality and the ability to lead, but of personal resolve and power regarding spellcasting as well. It has less to do with physical appearance than in standard Pathfinder rules, although most monsters in the standard rules use Charisma for this exact thing.
Races
- Available races: Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Halfling, Human
- Unavailable races: Half-elf, Half-orc, any other Half- race (halfbreeds do not exist in Mazariim, as the races actually evolved instead of being created by a deity, hence sentient races are too distant genetically to reproduce)
- Featured / Uncommon Races: The featured and uncommon races found in the Advanced Race Guide are considered very rare. They can be chosen once a player has been with the group for some time (minimum 20 sessions or 5 levels gained). These races might be shunned in many places, especially larger cities. Only one player at a time may play a rare race to prevent a "sideshow" party, and players must rotate if more than one wants to play one.
- Alternate Racial Traits / Racial Subtypes: Players may choose to use an alternate racial trait for their characters, but can only choose one. Players wanting more than one should choose a subtype. Traits must be appropriate for character background and origin based on campaign setting and must be double-checked by the DM before play.
- Favored Class Options: Players can choose to use these instead of the extra skill point or extra hit point for advancing in favored classes.
Classes
- Available / Altered Classes
--Paladin - can be any alignment and follow the ethos and dogma of their selected deity, abilities and powers change accordingly.
--Mystic - additional base class that casts like a sorcerer or oracle, but uses druidic spell lists. Previously called Shaman, but changed due to a conflict with the Advanced Class Guide.
--Monk / Ninja / Samurai – although available, these character classes are best used in campaigns set in the Lands of Honor
--Alchemist / Gunslinger – although available, these character classes are best used in campaigns set in the Gnomish Realms
- Class Archetypes & Additional Powers: Players may choose to use the archetypes and additional powers (rage/bloodlines/domains/talents/etc). Players may only use one archetype at a time. When an archetype has suggestions for class choices (rage powers, rogue talents, etc) those choices need to be used as soon as available. Archetypes and powers must be appropriate for character background and origin based on campaign setting and must be double-checked by the DM before play. Archtypes must be selected at character creation.
- Multiclassing: Players cannot multiclass to gain advantages by taking only one or two levels in a class. DM will enforce as needed. A 20th level character must have at least 5 levels in every class they have.
- Prestige Classes: Players may only have one prestige class and must have 5 levels in it by 20th level.
- Multiple Attribute Dependent: Spellcasters will no longer rely on only one stat for their entire spell power. Rather, all casters will rely on two attributes.
--Arcane casters will rely on Intelligence for bonus spells and the minimum score needed to cast a spell, and use Charisma for spell DCs (alchemist, bard, magus, sorcerer, summoner, witch, wizard).
--Divine casters will rely on Wisdom for bonus spells and the minimum score needed to cast a spell, and use Charisma for spell DCs (cleric, druid, inquisitor, oracle, paladin, ranger, shaman).
Feats
- Available Feats: All feats from the main Pathfinder sources are allowed, although feats may be disallowed by the DM on a case by case basis, even in the middle of an ongoing campaign.
Equipment
- Available Sources (CR/APG/UE): players may choose weapons, armor, and equipment from the Core Rulebook, Advanced Player’s Guide, and Ultimate Equipment, with the following exceptions:
--Exotic Weapons & Armor - up to 2x cost, availability might be limited*
--Masterwork Weapons / Armor – up to 2x cost, availability might be limited*
--Alchemical Remedies / Tools / Weapons / Poisons – up to 2x cost, availability might be limited*
These items, even ones from the Core Rulebook, need to be acquired at specialty stores or from NPCs during game time, and are not readily available during character creation or without DM interaction.
Spells
- Available Sources: Any from the main Pathfinder sources. More information on spells and spell research is available here.
- Altered Spells: A number of spells have had their spell level changed, including travel spells and planar magics. More information on the changes and complete spell lists by class is available here.
- Heighten Spell: All spellcasters are considered to have the Heighten Spell feat, and it is applied when spells are memorized or cast from higher level spell slots (increases from other metamagic feats do not count towards the increase).
- Divine Spells: Divine casters need to find and learn spells in a similar manner to arcane casters. Although they do not need spellbooks, they do need to find and learn spells to add them to their spell lists. They do not need a spellbook or other written record of the spells, rather they can be learned from other priests of their faith or divine spell tomes and are thereafter committed to memory. Characters can always add two spells to their lists at each new character level in a similar manner to wizards. (reason: flavor for the campaign setting, nothing to do with game balance)
- Spell Preparation: Characters that prepare spells ahead of time (wizards, clerics, druids, rangers, paladins, witches, summoners, alchemists, magus, and inquisitors) can choose between the standard method of preparing spells with spell slots (Vancian style) or can use the new method in the 5th edition Dungeons and Dragon rules. The newer method is actually more in line with the spellcasting of the setting, although both ways of preparation are valid and commonplace in Mazariim.
--Spell Selection - Instead of picking spells for every spell slot ahead of time, spellcasters that prepare spells instead prepare a list of spells that are known until the next rest. The caster chooses their ability modifier for casting + caster level in spells for their spell list for the day. These spells can be of any level, although picking too many spells of any level can be very limiting. Domain spells or other similar bonus spells do not count towards this number of spells.
--Spell Use - Players can then cast these spells in a similar way to a sorcerer, casting them at their original level or perhaps a higher level spell slot, taking the DC of the higher spell slot if a higher spell slot is used in casting. Casting the spell does not remove the spell from memory, it merely uses the spell slot.
---This type of memorization has the following positive effects:
Less wasted spells when going into unknown situations
Less time picking spells
No multiple memorization of the same spell ahead of time
Harder to run out of a particular spell
---Conversely, this method seems to have the following disadvantages:
Less variety of spells if a caster wants to be “ready for anything” with all different spells for every spell slot. For example, a wizard would have a harder time covering every element with damage spells, or a cleric might not be able to take every type of healing spell (remove curse, neutralize poison, remove paralysis) all in one day.
Prepared metamagic spells have the same casting time, but when casting with slots they take the same time to cast as sorcerers and bards, a full round action.
Magical Items
-Value - all non-disposable magical items can be worth up to 2x their normal value
-Item Slots - some item slots are combined:
--Armor/body/chest are one slot
--Eyes/head/headband are one slot
--Hands/wrists are one slot
-Item Creation - creating magical items uses the standard rules as well as needing a library, shrine, or grove.
-Attunement - Items in slots, as well as many miscellaneous magical items that are carried, need to be attuned to the user. This involves spending at least 1 hour getting familiar with the item, learning how to use it, and attuned items can only be swapped out during rests of at least 1 hour. Items cannot be swapped in battle, tossed to one another, etc. An item can only be attuned to one person at a time.
Additional Character Creation Rules
- Alignment: no evil or CN alignments allowed in standard campaigns without DM discussion
- Traits (APG): 2 at character creation; they must make sense from a RP and setting standpoint
- Starting Gold: 500gp
Character Death & Retires
Sometimes a character might get killed with no way of being resurrected for a variety of reasons, such as being killed by a death spell, falling into lava, or being killed on another plane of existence or other remote locale. In addition, players can sometimes get bored or grow to dislike a PC. In these cases, the following rules apply when making a new character:
- The new character gets 50% of the XP of the old character. This will usually place the PC 2 levels behind others in the group. From that point on, the PC gets a 50% bonus to XP until they catch up with the lowest level character in the group. In this way, new PCs are not as powerful as the current ones at first, but soon become much closer to the rest of the group.
- The new character gets 25% of the gold piece value of the other character. Assume full value for magical items and gear. Assets such as homes, castles, boats, and the like are not permitted to be liquidated for PC value. No assets of the old PC can get transferred to the new PC. A PCs magical items CANNOT be gifted to other PCs, even with a terrific IC reason.
- The DM can and will be very very strict in regards to making a PC with a tangible or intangible advantage or bonus related to the previous character, including putting restrictions on which IG groups, families, organizations, locations of origin, and just about anything else.
Hero Points
Characters get to use 1 hero point per adventure (not session, an adventure is usually 3-4 sessions). Every time a new adventure starts, players get a new hero point. Hero points cannot be saved; not using your hero point means you don't get another next adventure. Below are some of the things Hero Points can be used for. Please check the list as it has been edited from the APG.
- Bonus: You can add +5 to any die roll. This can be used after the roll. It can be used for attacks, saves, skill checks, initiative - just about anything.
- Extra Action: You can spend a hero point on your turn to gain an additional standard or move action this turn.
- Stabilize: You can cause a dying condition to become stable.
- Inspiration: If you feel stuck at one point in the adventure, you can spend a hero point and petition the GM for a hint about what to do next. If the GM feels that there is no information to be gained, the hero point is not spent.
- Reroll: Reroll a critical save, skill check, or other roll. Keep the second result. The DM can deny the use of this roll as needed.
XP
Experience points are given for monsters killed, quest goals achieved, and role-play. Role-play experience will not be a paltry tithe compared to monster XP either, it will be significant.
Altered Game Mechanics
- Death spells and Raise Dead: According to the rulebooks, a number of spells and death effects, such as destruction, prevent a raise dead spell from working. Spells which say they prevent raising do not! You can still be raised after dying from a destruction, disintegrate, or other similarly worded spell. The main difference between raise dead and resurrection is the length of time a person can be dead.
- Nauseated condition: To counterbalance the powerful nature of this condition handed out by lower level spells, every round while nauseated, a PC (or villain :P) can make a save at the beginning of each round as a free action against the original DC. If the save is made, for that round the PC is sickened instead of nauseated.
Role-play
Many people enjoy DnD for role-play, and many others for roll-play. This campaign is a combination of both. Do not be shy about role-playing. One need not role-play with their voice! Using text many people feel it is easier and more realistic to role-play, with conventional shyness about using a woman/child/elderly voice or accent becoming a non-issue. In fact, RPing using the chat allows for a wide range of emotions as well as descriptions of what a character does.
When role-playing:
- use the normal chat for out-of-character talking or standard dicerolls
- use the /me command to place things in-character, surrounding text with * indicates an emote
| 4 people marked this as a favorite. |
Telling players to roleplay, good.
Telling players how to roleplay, bad.
Telling players to roleplay, good.
Telling players how to roleplay, bad.
I rarely do tell people how to RP. The rules around RPing ability scores are more to prevent inappropriate RP, such as:
- Character with CHA 8 always tries to be the eloquent conversation leader and negotiator.
- Character with INT 8 RPs coming up with tactically genius plans for the group.
Of course much of that is handled with RP skills and dice rolls, but at times it helps to have players understand their stats matter for RP.
We have a player with a low WIS and he uses it for RP and it works out great. His Perception is low as well, and with the RP and dice rolls together it gives a great representation of his PC.
The rule is there to help give continuity to the RP as well as try to not have a "dump" stat.
I can appreciate the opinion though, perhaps I will make the wording seem less bossy and more suggestive.
|
CHA is used for untrained Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, Intimidate and Perform checks, plus trained Handle Animal and Use Magic Device checks.
WIS is used for untrained for Heal, Perception, Sense Motive, and Survival checks, plus trained Profession checks.
INT is used for untrained Appraise and Craft checks, plus trained Knowledge, Linguistics, and Spellcraft checks.
ability scores determine a character's inherent knack for rolling different skill checks - and he can increase these checks by investing skill points in them. but nothing in the rules determines what 'tactically genius plans' a character can or cannot bring to the table. if you find yourself telling your players, even politely, "your character is not smart enough to think of that" - i think this is what Zhayne was flagging.
that said, why starting gold $500? for me, one of my favorite phases of the game is 'too broke to get my masterwork sword yet' then looting the first bad guy for his like a desperate housecat.
Nah, I like your wording. It makes sense to me. Your houserules are pretty cool.
Telling players to roleplay, good.
Telling players how to roleplay, bad.I rarely do tell people how to RP. The rules around RPing ability scores are more to prevent inappropriate RP, such as:
- Character with CHA 8 always tries to be the eloquent conversation leader and negotiator.
- Character with INT 8 RPs coming up with tactically genius plans for the group.
Of course much of that is handled with RP skills and dice rolls, but at times it helps to have players understand their stats matter for RP.
We have a player with a low WIS and he uses it for RP and it works out great. His Perception is low as well, and with the RP and dice rolls together it gives a great representation of his PC.
The rule is there to help give continuity to the RP as well as try to not have a "dump" stat.
I can appreciate the opinion though, perhaps I will make the wording seem less bossy and more suggestive.
I agree with zhayne and rainzax you can't force people into role-playing.
And we are all guilty of meta-gaming at some point. I agree with you that roleplaying games can be quite immersive when players are in 'character', however from my experience, players have a diverse range of interests and play styles and the more idealistic the goal, the harder the game-master will fall.
Some people are socially awkward and role-playing is foreign to them. Penalizing them is often not the best solution.
I read your house rules. I like them. But it seems to me your house rules are designed to stop extremely destructive players or extremely lazy players from interfering with your grand vision of what Pathfinder games should be.
Pulling a player aside and telling them that their behavior or design of their character is destructive to game play would save you and your players a lot of time and effort.
I appreciate all the thoughts, thanks guys!
The paladin restriction shouldn't be droped.it's the main drawback for beiing a Paladin, and nearly all their habilities are alignement based. If you want to make a "fighter of the god", the warpriest would be a better choice.
--Arcane casters will rely on Intelligence for bonus spells and the minimum score needed to cast a spell, and use Charisma for spell DCs (alchemist, bard, magus, sorcerer, summoner, witch, wizard).
--Divine casters will rely on Wisdom for bonus spells and the minimum score needed to cast a spell, and use Charisma for spell DCs (cleric, druid, inquisitor, oracle, paladin, ranger, shaman).
This is pretty devastating for gish characters, especially when you already made headbands and belts much more costly. I'm guessing you did this to make wizards and clerics more stat dependent. In reality, other classes suffer more for it. I would honestly never play a magus, my favorite class, in your campaign as it would force me to ---- build a cookie-cutter Dervish Dancer that does nothing but spam shocking grasp all day.
It also makes it annoying because the secondary abilities of most spellcasting classes use their primary stat for the DC. For example, cleric domains use Wisdom and witch hexes use Intelligence.
I would honestly never play a magus, my favorite class, in your campaign as it would force me to ---- build a cookie-cutter Dervish Dancer that does nothing but spam shocking grasp all day.
As much as I can appreciate that, my players choose races and classes for RP reasons (it seems), so I doubt any players are being "forced" into anything because of some number changes. Players who were choosing a class because of numerical minuta most likely wouldn't have that much fun in our game. Most seem most interesting in character development. If someone envisioned a magus as their PC, I find it doubtful that any would suddenly choose something else, let alone a fallback PC that takes advantage of the most useful mechanics such as shocking grasp spam, unless of course that was the PC they envisioned. An interesting point, still. :)
The warpriest suggestion, on the other hand, deserves some merit and I will be comparing them today, thanks Saigo!
I would honestly never play a magus, my favorite class, in your campaign as it would force me to ---- build a cookie-cutter Dervish Dancer that does nothing but spam shocking grasp all day.As much as I can appreciate that, my players choose races and classes for RP reasons (it seems), so I doubt any players are being "forced" into anything because of some number changes. Players who were choosing a class because of numerical minuta most likely wouldn't have that much fun in our game. Most seem most interesting in character development. If someone envisioned a magus as their PC, I find it doubtful that any would suddenly choose something else, let alone a fallback PC that takes advantage of the most useful mechanics such as shocking grasp spam, unless of course that was the PC they envisioned. An interesting point, still. :)
You're missing the point. I choose my race/class for character concepts and RP reasons, too. No one likes it when a house rule punishes them for their (reasonable) character concept. Especially when the concept is already sub-optimal for their class and the house rule was mainly designed to hinder only TWO classes out of the entire game. The magus already relies on four ability scores, and you deliberately punish players who dump scores.
Point taken, something to think about sir.
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
The problem isn't that Cyrad isn't talking about numerical minutia. It is a pretty big deal to have that change actually, especially when coupled with many of the other changes you have houseruled. When playing Pathfinder it is important to remember that it is a (war)game - bigger dice and +1s are important in a lot of ways even if everyone just sits and schemes or chats in a tavern rather than delve into dungeons.
I am not trying to say that a lot of your houserules seem to be made for the purposes of trying to jab the guy who plays the system, but there's not a whole lot of other ways to cut it; The five-level minimum for classes smacks of being afraid someone will eke out just a little more strength for their build so that they might outshine the part, among other things. A potential double in cost for all items could really short a character's effectiveness if their earnings are not on-par with your altered game and can afford the appropriate gear to keep in line with WBL.
I am sure this game could work out fine for you and your players, but as an outside observer there are concerns. You're moving farther and farther away from the framework of the rules with every additional houserule and while that can benefit the game in some ways as you can tailor it to your group specifically, it also requires a great deal of maintenance.
If you are going to 'enforce' low-stats being roleplayed, make it clear how much you expect that to come up. If I have a character with 7 Dex, should I be fumbling all over the place, or is the occasional wobble enough? What about a Charisma of 9? Things like this should be given guidelines other than 'be reasonable' because that can mean wildly different things.
Just my two cents.
Good stuff to think about.
The 5 level rule is partially about RP and partially about munchkin builds, its true. As a DM I have had many issues with players trying to get bonuses from a class they didn't even RP, let alone had a good reason to take.
The low score thing isn't "enforced" like you might think, its a guideline. And my players are all very cool and agreeable to it as well. Some didn't take anything lower than a 10, and the ones that did put it into RP now and then. I haven't ever suddenly given someone a penalty for doing something OOC. Rather, the rule combined with talking with players prevented issues.
I have had to play with many PCs over the years, I ran my first DnD game back in the 1980s. Talking with every player about the same type of things over and over got old, I suppose. Now, when a player joins the group, all that is done before we begin. Been smooth sailing ever since, especially online with Roll20 since there are so many players to pick from.
I will settle back and ponder any more suggestions people have. I would love to hear from DMs on their perspective :)
The 5 level rule is partially about RP and partially about munchkin builds, its true. As a DM I have had many issues with players trying to get bonuses from a class they didn't even RP, let alone had a good reason to take.
...
I would love to hear from DMs on their perspective :)
As a GM, I have a very simple way of dealing with munchkin players: I don't invite them to my game. If I can't trust a player to NOT make a disruptive character, then he doesn't belong at my table. Instead of creating a list of arbitrary rule changes that will likely have unintentional consequences in the game system and make a bunch of rules about how to roleplay, I'd just simply tell my players my expectations.
that said, why starting gold $500? for me, one of my favorite phases of the game is 'too broke to get my masterwork sword yet' then looting the first bad guy for his like a desperate housecat.
Thats the charm of low levels! When else is a wizard afraid of a kobold? When else would the fighter wear scale mail?
Although at the same time, the cost of everything is potentially doubled, so everything sort of falls in line with what you would expect someone to buy starting out.
-Personally, I'd hate that if I get killed I have to start way behind the party. Two levels is a huge deal. If I got killed for being an idiot, then maybe that's a problem and I should be penalized for it. But what if my character dies in some grand RP gesture fighting off the Forces of Evil so my allies can escape? Why am I being penalized for that?
I completely agree, but at the same time, I feel this is a preference thing. Many groups don't mind this. Ironically, many of the groups with this preference also don't care about their character very much.
I'd personally allow players to make a new character at the same level. My players care about their characters so much that I see no reason to further penalize them if they die. They're still behind because their new character will likely not have as much wealth. You can easily fix a wealth disparity, but not so much with a level disparity.
Cost of everything is not doubled, to be sure. Things are up to 2x cost, and those are just non-disposable magical items, masterwork, alchemy, etc. They are more expensive in some areas of the world, while normal price in big cities, hence why it says "up to 2x".
We had 2 new players join and they were at the same level as everyone else after 2 levels of play, and at the time it seemed to integrate everyone well.
So far, no one has even wanted to play a strange race. It has been my experience that those people often (but not always) want to play a very specific build that often doesn't mesh with RP, ie a munchkin build, etc.
I'd do what I've seen a friend do under a GM with similar rules: when his character died (to something incredibly stupid on the GM's part, frankly), he got up to walk from the table... until the GM provided a Convenient Retcon and said no, they were only mostly dead.
Playing online helps solve that issue. If a player died and was going to walk from the table, I would wish him well and send him on his way, as a player who decided to leave over the death of a PC or rules regarding death isn't a good match for me or my group.
Understand, I am not playing with my friends from high school with old friends, I play online on Roll20, and when I was getting new players into my campaign I could see from the backgrounds and PC ideas that some people created that they simply wanted to play a hack-n-slash or powergame, and the subsequent house rules got rid of those players early.
So far, no one has even wanted to play a strange race. It has been my experience that those people often (but not always) want to play a very specific build that often doesn't mesh with RP, ie a munchkin build, etc.
My experiences vary greatly from this. Every PC in my campaign is an uncommon race. Yet, the players rarely ever use their race's special abilities. I even homebrewed a custom race and statted a race that one of my players created.
Most munchkins I've seen play humans because of the bonus feat or elves because their favored class bonuses are better than other races. The two major munchkin'd uncommon races I've heard of are assimar (really good ability scores, SLA good for prestige classing) and merfolk (way overcompensated stats for their low movement speed).
Playing online helps solve that issue. If a player died and was going to walk from the table, I would wish him well and send him on his way, as a player who decided to leave over the death of a PC or rules regarding death isn't a good match for me or my group.
There's legitimate reasons to be angry over a character death. I was in a campaign that ended because the GM accidentally caused a TPK. No, it wasn't the case of bad luck or the GM giving us a difficult encounter. He made a good-aligned goddess intervene unexpectedly to help us in a major battle we had in our control, but ended up causing all of our deaths instead. Half the group got angry and didn't want to play anymore. Even the GM admits it was a terrible mistake and regrets it to this day.
Understand, I am not playing with my friends from high school with old friends, I play online on Roll20, and when I was getting new players into my campaign I could see from the backgrounds and PC ideas that some people created that they simply wanted to play a hack-n-slash or powergame, and the subsequent house rules got rid of those players early.
I exclusively run online campaigns and even I only play with friends. If you're really that afraid of munchkins, you're better off only running a game with people you know. Otherwise, you should explicitly tell players your expectations and then kick out players that greatly violate them.
Well, I can see a few people disagree with some of the rules, and that's ok, that's why there are different games and different DMs.
I will have to respectfully disagree with Cyrad and leave it at that, as a back and forth over the spirit of the rules I posted isn't exactly what I had in mind lol. Still, some points to think about.
What I was looking for was suggestions like Saigo's on removing the different aligned paladins since warpriest fits the bill.
Out of curiousity, what house rules do you other DMs use? Race or class restrictions? Feat restrictions? Or do some of you allow just about anything and then some?
|
|
in my game, most of my changes facilitate easier optimization. i see it like this: YOIO = you optimize, I optimize! bear in mind that my players only get one character, where I get as many as the story needs. if one of my players shows up with min/maxed stats and traits/archetypes/feats/spells/etc from a bunch of different books, i see it as a challenge. that said, if that player (or any player) turns out to be a ball-hog, he gets the boot. fun is #1 - and it's my job to maximize whole-group fun by any means necessary.
one tip: be a part of the character creation process if possible, maybe suggest powerful combinations based off their concept if they are open to that. then you get an advance look at what's comin' at you and can turn around and use that knowledge to challenge them in return.
but enough meta-chat. in particular i'm looking forward to trying out this new house rule:
Casting Defensively DC 10 + highest BAB of among threatening foes + 2 per additional foe + twice spell level
Great post glosz. I liked this:
Primary goals:
Stick as close to Pathfinder core rules as possible therefore creating minimal impact on DM preparation time.
Keep the books and options available at a manageable level.
As I work so much and try to spend about 4 hours of prep per 4 hour session, it makes total sense to me. In fact, only recently did I start allowing all the core Paizo books, when we started it was Core Rulebook and Advanced Player Guide only to keep things simple.
I saw a few of my house rules in there, such as divine spell tomes. Great stuff to ponder, thanks so much glosz!
Nice rules on spells like Invisibility and Teleport as well :)
The way I am reading your houseruled spell selection is turning all spellcasters into some hybrid of a spontaneous/prepared caster. I select the spells I want available that day, and then cast them however I desire from my slots. If that is a correct assessment, why do that? Seems like it removes the flavors from spontaneous and prepared casters in favor of homogenization of the two.
Edit: What I am saying is, it appears you are taking from the sorcerer/oracle one of their advantages to give it to a wizard/cleric. So now the wizard/cleric has both balls and the sorcerer/oracle gets... What?
No no. Players can merely use the option from 5th edition from casting, or cast Vancian style. Their choice, merely an option for any spellcasters.
In my custom setting 5th edition casting is how I imagined casting, but I didn't want to take anything away from people who enjoyed the old system so both can be used.
No no. Players can merely use the option from 5th edition from casting, or cast Vancian style. Their choice, merely an option for any spellcasters.
In my custom setting 5th edition casting is how I imagined casting, but I didn't want to take anything away from people who enjoyed the old system so both can be used.
You're missing his main point. Being able to flexibility cast duplicate spells is pretty much a spontaneous caster's only advantage over prepared casting. Wizards are already considered significantly more powerful than sorcerers, and now they receive their greatest advantage while the sorcerers (and other spontaneous casters) receive nothing to compensate. Don't forget that sorcerers now need two stats to cast spells (once again, that house rule hurts other classes more than the class it was supposed to nerf). In addition, there's not much reason to play an arcanist.
Also keep in mind that 5th Edition compensated sorcerers by giving them a special resource pool and made them the only class that can use metamagic.
As always thoughtful insights! Thanks Cyrad.
|
--Arcane casters will rely on Intelligence for bonus spells and the minimum score needed to cast a spell, and use Charisma for spell DCs (alchemist, bard, magus, sorcerer, summoner, witch, wizard).
--Divine casters will rely on Wisdom for bonus spells and the minimum score needed to cast a spell, and use Charisma for spell DCs (cleric, druid, inquisitor, oracle, paladin, ranger, shaman).This is pretty devastating for gish characters, especially when you already made headbands and belts much more costly. I'm guessing you did this to make wizards and clerics more stat dependent. In reality, other classes suffer more for it. I would honestly never play a magus, my favorite class, in your campaign as it would force me to ---- build a cookie-cutter Dervish Dancer that does nothing but spam shocking grasp all day.
It also makes it annoying because the secondary abilities of most spellcasting classes use their primary stat for the DC. For example, cleric domains use Wisdom and witch hexes use Intelligence.
I agree that this really hurts classes like magus, ranger, etc. I do however really like this rule to limit the ridiculous one-stat-to-rule-them-all stat stacking that happens, especially with arcane casters. I think this helps balance out some facets of full 9 level casters, but I would consider only making it apply to full casters and not hybrid, gishes, or half casting classes like rangers, paladins, etc.
A good point on using this only for full casters. Still, if a class only has 4 or 6 spell levels, like ranger for example, then the ability score that governs what the highest spell level available doesn't need to be a 19 by 20th level, but rather 14 or 16. thus, in my mind it seemed not to matter as much but perhaps it is worth a second look.
Thanks!
I do however really like this rule to limit the ridiculous one-stat-to-rule-them-all stat stacking that happensWhy not just ban stat boosting items altogether? Casters benefit the most from them and they are already powerful enough.
That's completely untrue. Martials heavily rely on stat-boosting items to stay relevant, so much that one of Pathfinder's designers is kickstarting a new RPG that specifically addresses that issue. Banning stat-boosting items would cripple fighters. The fighter in my campaign had suffered because I became too stingy with treasure.
That's completely untrue. Martials heavily rely on stat-boosting items to stay relevant, so much that one of Pathfinder's designers is kickstarting a new RPG that specifically addresses that issue.How so?
Bonus spells and higher DC is way better than a +1 here or there.
Also with 3 different stats to augment vs saving throws vs 1 stat for the casters the martial is always playing catch up.
So by banning stat boosting items the martial needs to worry less about those pesky spell DC's.
Not really., the cost of item is exponential: for the price of a "+4 item", the fighter can get +2 to 3 stats, gaining much more than a +2 to to the saving throw.
Personnally, to make the game more balanced, I like to play slow xp progression (aka, no high level) and to give 25 creation point. The martial class get a lot better with 25 pts, while the caster will get a small advantage.
Forcing a wizard to use CHA for save DCs just means they are going to be not only smart but also good looking.
Just a note, in my house rules that CHA is much more a force of personality. It encompases force of personality. Monsters use it in all the Bestiary books for save DCs. One of the ugliest monsters, the Medusa, has a CHA 15 and her gaze is based off of CHA.
No no. Players can merely use the option from 5th edition from casting, or cast Vancian style. Their choice, merely an option for any spellcasters.
In my custom setting 5th edition casting is how I imagined casting, but I didn't want to take anything away from people who enjoyed the old system so both can be used.
You're missing his main point. Being able to flexibility cast duplicate spells is pretty much a spontaneous caster's only advantage over prepared casting. Wizards are already considered significantly more powerful than sorcerers, and now they receive their greatest advantage while the sorcerers (and other spontaneous casters) receive nothing to compensate. Don't forget that sorcerers now need two stats to cast spells (once again, that house rule hurts other classes more than the class it was supposed to nerf). In addition, there's not much reason to play an arcanist.
Also keep in mind that 5th Edition compensated sorcerers by giving them a special resource pool and made them the only class that can use metamagic.
Yes, exactly what I was saying. spontaneous casters are getting an ever shorter straw if you allow normally prepared casters to go spontaneous as well. I haven't even looked at 5th edition, just recently started getting in to pathfinder personally, so i'm going to enjoy it for awhile first. I like what you said there at the end though, about the boosts spontaneous casters get in 5th ed., however. If those were also added I think it might balance out a little better.
That's completely untrue. Martials heavily rely on stat-boosting items to stay relevant, so much that one of Pathfinder's designers is kickstarting a new RPG that specifically addresses that issue.How so?
Martials have severely less versatility than spellcasters. Martial classes give much fewer options to martials for solving problems, resigning weapon damage as their primary contribution. As a result, a martial needs high stats to stay useful to the party because their contribution to the party is limited to putting out numbers. In addition, the game scales monsters with the assumption the PCs receive gear with respect to the Wealth By Level table.
All of this is commonly known information by anyone with experience in D&D and Pathfinder.
Bonus spells and higher DC is way better than a +1 here or there.
Not all spells require DCs. In fact, some of the best spells don't need one. Spells automatically become more powerful as the caster gains levels. Weapon damage, on the other hand, always stays the same unless the character gets magic items, feats, or damage-increasing class features (which most classes only receive every 4-5 levels).
Also with 3 different stats to augment vs saving throws vs 1 stat for the casters the martial is always playing catch up
So by banning stat boosting items the martial needs to worry less about those pesky spell DC's.
How? Are you suggesting that stat-boosting items should be banned so enemy spellcasters will have lower spell DCs? That's ridiculous!
1) You're assuming PCs will only fight level appropriate NPCs with class levels, which is usually not the case. Banning items won't make monster ability DCs any lower.
2) Removing such magic items also removes cloak of resistance, a staple item that boosts ALL saves against ALL effects.
3) While martial's ability to save against effects is important, that pales in comparison to the other ways banning stat magic items cripples them.
That's completely untrue. Martials heavily rely on stat-boosting items to stay relevant, so much
1) You're assuming PCs will only fight level appropriate NPCs with class levels, which is usually not the case. Banning items won't make monster ability DCs any lower.
2) Removing such magic items also removes cloak of resistance, a staple item that boosts ALL saves against ALL effects.
3) While martial's ability to save against effects is important, that pales in comparison to the other ways banning stat magic items cripples...
The biggest problem that GMs face is unbalanced characters and overpowered characters, in turn forcing the GM to bolster encounters.
A Cloak of Resistance is not a stat boosting item, it's a saving throw boosting item.
Most players have become accustomed to using stat-boosting items, and any suggestion to play without them is followed by "the sky is falling." A 3rd level two-handed fighter with 20 str wielding a great axe with power attack does 1d12 +13 (14-25) damage...far from being a cripple.
Some of the early stuff sounds more like etiquette advice than house rules. I think more people I know would rather ban the discussion of Game of Thrones and Fantasy Football than political or religious matters.
Anyhow, your house rules seem very long. A lot of them like the Charisma casting stuff previous posters criticized also seem like they might be kind of unnecessary. I generally like to see house rules limited to fixing stuff which seems like it doesn’t work. I also dislike your multiclassing rules. I really like multiclassing and often take just a level or two of some class to round out my character concept. Pathfinder already has a lot of incentives for class loyalty, so I’m not sure if DM oversight is necessary. That said, I could probably swallow a few house rules I don’t like if they weren’t accompanied by more house rules than I even want to read. Of course now that I’ve said your house rules are too long I’ll have to go write up the ones my groups use and see to make sure they haven’t become bloated as well. Maybe I’ll even post them so folks can criticize me too!
On the plus side, I like that you're giving a beatdown to replacement PCs. I usually dock people a level for switching PCs. I've also considered making them start with NPC wealth.
but nothing in the rules determines what 'tactically genius plans' a character can or cannot bring to the table.
Interestingly, this is the "house rule" forum, not the "rules forum".
I don't necessarily agree with the OP's implementation, but commenting someone's house rules with "the rules don't say this!" is pretty silly.
BTW, one way to reduce the SADness of casters while helping instead of gimping half-casters, is to remove the stat component from DC completely.
Instead of DC being 10 + Stat + Spell Level, you can make the DC 10 + 4 + 1/4th caster level + Spell Level.
That means the DC will be as if you started the game with 18 in your casting stat, and increased it by 2 per four levels - like a mid-range but not superoptimized full caster, or a half-caster focusing on offensive casting. It also means if you manage to pick up a +1 DC at level 8 and 16, your chance of success vs an equal-level opponent with your strongest spell level will remain the same.
Minimum casting stat to cast and bonus spell and of cause all other abilities still rely on the standard casting stat.
This also increases the floor and lowers the roof of optimization, which to some degree I like especially on casters.
EDIT: To clarify, this doesn't make the class _dependant_ on more stats, but it lowers the benefit of one stat while compensating by lowering the need for it. So in practice, a wizard doesn't really need to start out with 20 int and add every stat increase and belt to it all the time; it might make more sense to start out with 18 or even 16, and increasing it occacionally to get bonus spells and abilities, leaving room for not dumping charisma or whatever.
Wow that is a fascinating idea! Best one I have heard so far.
*runs to do math on his break*
You could also make the DC's purely level based, 10+Spell level + 1/2 character level, round up. So, +1 to 10. Max DC for any spell would be 29 at level 19 (barring spell focus feats).
This also has the effect of making spells from higher level casters more powerful, not from those with higher stats.
==Aelryinth
