slayer build advice

[madchemist]

I am planning on building a slayer for an upcoming campaign. Our DM loves low magic item/non-epic(character) campaigns with a high probability of character death. I want to make a very versatile fun slayer. Our campaigns always start at 1st level and its been years since we have made it past level 10. My plan is to start off with a dex/str equal build favoring dex if my dice play along (we roll classic unless he is feeling super nice then standard) that day. I want to leave myself options as far as combat goes so I plan to pick improved initiative for my first feat and possibly combat expertise for human feat to set up improved feint for sneak attack at lvl 3. Depending on how the campaign is going I may or may not choose a fighting style at lvl 2 Im leaning towards two hand fighting plus bow. I really don't want to play two weapon unless magic short swords drop as much as they did last campaign. As I am new to pathfinder (played a lot of 2nd edition D&D then took a long break from rpg) any advice or suggestions would be appreciated.

[Argus The Slayer]

I'd suggest skipping Combat Expertise and Improved Feint: Slayer's don't get as many sneak dice as rogues do, and you aren't going to want to "waste" a move action later on (once you get an iterative attack) when you can choose to make an extra attack instead (as a full round action). If you have good flanking buddies on the team, work with them to get your sneak damage.

If you are worried about dying, I'd suggest focusing on defenses, saving throws and hit points. Toughness is a good place to start.

Power attack is pretty much the only must-have feat for a two handed melee character.

If you really want to be an effective archer, you need like 4 or 5 feats - and you will want to start taking some of them at first level:

Critical, must have:
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Rapid Shot

Important:
Weapon Focus
Deadly Aim
Many Shot

[madchemist]

thanks for your thoughts. I was doing some more reading and improved feint does seem like a bad idea. Toughness is a good idea. Im not worried about becoming a good archer. I was planning on using it only at the beginning of combat.

[Argus The Slayer]

If you are going to go with a two handed weapon, why are you going slayer and not Fighter or Barbarian?

Slayer works well for two weapon fighting builds (because you can leave your DEX low and get the ranger TWF feats), but Barbarian and Fighter do more damage with two handed weapons. Unless you are in it for the skill points, I'd suggest that you consider changing to Barbarian. Barbarians work great when you aren't sure what magic weapons are available (they typically don't special much, relying on their huge STR bonuses instead), and (especially with Raging Vitality) are very hard to kill. If you want a more defensive Barbarian, look into the Armored Hulk archetype.

Have fun!

[havoc xiii]

Me and my wife have a slayer duo, she is going to use a two handed weapon and use killing flourish while I have shatter defenses to set up ranged sneak attacks. Looks like it could be lots of fun :).

[Smallfoot]

Jumping in because I've been looking for a Slayer build thread. Thanks, madchemist, and pardon me for the partial threadjacking.

I've got a PFS tiefling Slayer still at level 1, so I can do whatever I want with him. I like the flavor of the race/class combo but I am looking for optimization tips. I'm leaning toward TWF, leaving archery to the rangers and monks and two-hand to the barbarians. Recommendations?

And while I'm at it, what feat/trait/skill/talent combos stack particularly well for slayers, both in and out of combat? Bluff, Intimidate, and Disguise are not likely to work well for the tiefling because of the -2 Cha, but I could pump Wisdom up a bit to improve Perception and Sense Motive.

Any advice is welcome.

[GeneticDrift]

Since you are getting a bonus to dex maybe grab the ranger style for shield fighting and get agile weapons/shield spike.

[shroudb]

If you don't want to go two weapon, maybe go sword and board?

Ranger (and thus slayer) has the unique feature of being able to play full bash without the two weapon line AND get shield master by level 6 instead of 10 and shield slam at 2 instead of 6.

You will have your shield for defense and knock people around for free for control.

[madchemist]

I want to go slayer for the skills and flavor. I was just thinking sword and board could be a good option. I guess now my main plan is to go for flexibility with how the campaign goes. The last campaign I set up my character with very little flexibility an it got boring real quick. I think I am going to start with improved initiative and toughness and see how it goes. Thanks for the help all

[Eben TheQuiet]

madchemist, with your intention on sporting a good str and dex, and your desire to play a character with options in combat, I'd suggest taking a look at a standard switch-hitter setup.

Grab Quickdraw and power attack. You can use your Slayer Talents to pick up a Ranger combat style (either Two-handed or Archery) and ignore the pre-reqs to get some feats that let you work in either melee or archery. The beauty is that if you go Archery, you can nab Rapid Shot at lvl 2.

Then, outfit yourself with whatever bow you fancy, your one-handed weapon of choice, a quick-draw light shield, and pick and choose when and how you fight. Quickdraw your bow when combat opens and fire away. When they close, quickdraw your longsword and power attack away. If you need more AC (or for some reason need to fight one-handed), you have that covered, too.

[shroudb]

for versatility and shield+board i would go something like:

lvl1: quickdraw, improved shield bash
lvl2: talent: ranger style: shield slam
lvl3: imp init
lvl4: talent: trapfinding
lvl5: power attack
lvl6: talent: ranger style: shield master

with a quickdraw shield and quickdraw feat you can:
a)sheath unsheath a shield as a FREE action
b)unsheath a weapon as a free action

carry both a one and a half-hander, a quickdraw shield, and a bow:

basically, the differance is that in order to SHEATH a weapon you need a move action (or you can drop it as free)

except for quickdraw shields, which you can SHEATH as free too.

With a one hander like p.e. a long sword, you can just hold it and attck with your shield, and when you can sacrifice the AC you can just sheath the shield and grab it two-handed, full attack, and then pull out the shield again for extra AC, all in the same round!

you can drop the sword, sheath the shield, pull out a bow, and shoot a full attack with your bow, only to drop the bow afterwards and STILL have a shield to attack with.

Shields with the right feats (which you can get by lvl6) offer nice damage (spiked+bashing), offer free bullrush with EACH hit, are dirty cheap to echant (you just enchant the armor which is half cost compared to the weapons, and you can put the offensive abilities on the spikes to "break" down the +x stacking cost)

[Argus The Slayer]

shroudb wrote:

...and when you can sacrifice the AC you can just sheath the shield and grab it two-handed, full attack, and then pull out the shield again for extra AC, all in the same round!

Great post and advice overall, Shroudb, but it should be noted that many GMs would disallow un-equipping and then equipping a shield in the same round, as the number of free actions that a character can take in a round may be ruled by the GM. You should ask your DM how he would treat the situation, and if you are playing such a character in PFS (which doesn't seem to be the case here) you should expect (and accept) a lot of table variation.

[Umbranus]

Argus The Slayer wrote:

If you are going to go with a two handed weapon, why are you going slayer and not Fighter or Barbarian?

I guess because his goal to be versatile and the fighter class don't go well together.

[shroudb]

Argus The Slayer wrote:

shroudb wrote:

...and when you can sacrifice the AC you can just sheath the shield and grab it two-handed, full attack, and then pull out the shield again for extra AC, all in the same round!

Great post and advice overall, Shroudb, but it should be noted that many GMs would disallow un-equipping and then equipping a shield in the same round, as the number of free actions that a character can take in a round may be ruled by the GM. You should ask your DM how he would treat the situation, and if you are playing such a character in PFS (which doesn't seem to be the case here) you should expect (and accept) a lot of table variation.

i would disallow it myself since i'm usually a DM ^^

but what i wanted to make clear was how great is the ability to sheath your weapon as free action (and i used an extreme example).

all those times were you just toss your weapon and switch and then move only to realize that your weapon is a few feet away and you need a move action to go there and another to pick it up as oppossed to having it on you all the time.

[Argus The Slayer]

Umbranus wrote:

Argus The Slayer wrote:

If you are going to go with a two handed weapon, why are you going slayer and not Fighter or Barbarian?

I guess because his goal to be versatile and the fighter class don't go well together.

I am assuming that was sarcasm, but hey its the Internet and its hard to tell if people are being sarcastic.

Because Fighters get more feats than any other class, and because they have access to Weapon Training, Fighters are extremely versatile in combat.

Out of combat a vanilla Fighter build can feel mighty useless. I am a big proponent of the Lore Warden archetype for that reason, and especially if you are going with a high DEX build or don't care about AC , since Lore Wardens due lose medium and heavy armor proficiency.