Caster less game *possible problems?*


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If there's no +x weapons due to no casters (seriously don't remove that part "because there's no enchanters") you're going to have extreme problems. Do keep in mind that higher level challenges (and not just monsters) within the system ASSUME that you are covered head to toe in magic gear.

Martial types are hit the hardest, in fact, by such a lack, before you even get into the issue of "nigh-impossible save DC vs nasty effect you no longer have the magic to remove".


Requests similar to this about "low magic", "no magic" or "low power" (I would love a "low magic item but no low power" option) are fairly frequent. It would be great if Paizo makes some book that address that kind of thing. Maybe the Occultism one will talk a bit about that?

Grand Lodge

Despite what some naysayers will insist, this style of game can and does work just fine using the pathfinder ruleset. It certainly requires a lot more thought on the GMs part, and a lot of the bestiary should be left out of the game, but considering the flavor that the OP is suggesting I expect that's his intention.

My advice would be to go for it, give it a shot and see how you and your players like that style of game.


I want to nerf magic items a bit in my games. I already "nerfed" full casters. (Spells after level 6 are "epic" and take great concentration to perform and maintain. Further, they have a once per month limitation to all of them, and can only be prepared once per month. This lowers to once per week after leveling up further, but not for level 9 spells.)

I am still uncertain of whether nerfing magic items is a good thing, but it feels like it.

What I'm doing is making wands have 3 piddly uses, so they are like scrolls++ but not that awesome. Also, the only class that can cast spells out of their spell list are Rogues (custom Spellthief class feature! Can be traded out for a good Will save.)


Probably the most relevant problem is finding enough pathfinder players to want to be in it.
Once you're past that hurdle... every other problem is easy in comparison.


Vincent Takeda wrote:
Probably the most relevant problem is finding enough pathfinder players to want to be in it.

Which is likely what Pathfinder is being picked. It's easy to rope a bunch of new players in by saying you are gonna run a new PF game. Then, you announce all your changes.

I am not imagining this. I suggest Iron heros once in a thread like this, and the OP flat out admitted that all his players wanted to play PF, no one was interested in Iron Heros- thus, he was going to take PF and delete most magic until is WAS Iron heroes.


DrDeth wrote:
Vincent Takeda wrote:
Probably the most relevant problem is finding enough pathfinder players to want to be in it.

Which is likely what Pathfinder is being picked. It's easy to rope a bunch of new players in by saying you are gonna run a new PF game. Then, you announce all your changes.

I am not imagining this. I suggest Iron heros once in a thread like this, and the OP flat out admitted that all his players wanted to play PF, no one was interested in Iron Heros- thus, he was going to take PF and delete most magic until is WAS Iron heroes.

Actually, that is not what he said. What he said was that his experience is with D&D and Pathfinder which is why he is choosing to use Pathfinder.

Personally, if it was me, why would I want to use one D&D hack (Iron Heroes), when I can make my own that is tailored to my game?


Back on topic, I know you are going with more science than magic, but does that mean more sci-fi as well? Would psionics be an option?

Grand Lodge

There really isn't any need to go into a major analysis here. The long and short of it is, that you simply can't drop PC magic options and run the rest of the game as if nothing else has changed.

It all boils down to just this.

1. When you select things to throw at your PCs you have to keep in mind what they do have and don't when evaluating the challenge of what they face. What are you going to do creatures that require dr/alignment, dr/magic, or some combo of the two and more?

2. Decide what you are going to do about recovery. Leaving that unaddressed means that your PC's will need days. weeks, or never to recover from each serious fight they survive. Also conditions such as disease, blindness, and others need to be thought of.

It all pretty much boils down to answering 1 and 2.

Paizo Glitterati Robot

Removed a post and reply. Let's leave this kind of drama out of the Advice threads.

Grand Lodge

DrDeth wrote:
I suggest Iron heros once in a thread like this, and the OP flat out admitted that all his players wanted to play PF, no one was interested in Iron Heros- thus, he was going to take PF and delete most magic until is WAS Iron heroes.

I see this suggestion in almost every discussion about low magic or magicless games on this site, so I got a little curious about the system. It sounded like it might be pretty good, and might make it easier to run that type of game, so I started looking for reviews of it... the first thing that caught my eye was this and I didn't really feel like I needed to go farther. Sounds like it's just easier to play pathfinder with no magic and not include monsters that need magic to defeat.

It's too bad really, I would like to see a nice, gritty, low magic campaign setting where I don't have to learn a whole new game to play it.

Shadow Lodge

I'm surprised to see a few of the "we hateses WotC and it's evil non-3.x editionses" posters suggest Iron Heroes, give that that vile detestible Mike Mearls, who has been involved with TWO of the blasphemous non-3.x editions that taint the good name of Dungeons and Dragons that Tweet, Williams, and Cook created (ignore the blasphemous lies about some guy named Gygax...nobody with a name that ridiculous could actually exit). Sure, Iron Heroes is slightly redeemed by the "Monte Cook Presents" heading, but it doesn't change the fact that it was penned by someone who would later prove to be a vile traitor to the one TRUE D&D...3.x.

Spoiler:
There may have been a small amount of sarcasm involved in this post

Dark Archive

Kthulhu wrote:
I'm surprised to see a few of the "we hateses WotC and it's evil non-3.x editionses" posters suggest Iron Heroes, give that that vile detestible Mike Mearls, who has been involved with TWO of the blasphemous non-3.x editions that taint the good name of Dungeons and Dragons that Tweet, Williams, and Cook created (ignore the blasphemous lies about some guy named Gygax...nobody with a name that ridiculous could actually exit). Sure, Iron Heroes is slightly redeemed by the "Monte Cook Presents" heading, but it doesn't change the fact that it was penned by someone who would later prove to be a vile traitor to the one TRUE D&D...3.x.

Personally I just think Iron Heroes is a poorly put together system, it jumps all over the place in power level and rules, but most of all one of the core things people talk about it fixing, the God caster, is actually not fixed at all, it's simply just as powerful in other ways given even a little imagination.

On topic, one thing you may be better off telling your players is that this is a work in progress, if something you've not thought of crops up mid game and turns out to be a problem you'll work together to find a solution that won't screw over the players and will still let you use your monsters as needed, things will only flow more smoothly if your players are on board and feel included.

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