How much impact does your Stamina Pool have on your play?

[Nihimon]

Stephen Cheney (Current Creature Threat Mechanics) wrote:

I'd love to see another thread comparing and contrasting peoples' experiences at the two different Stamina maxes. The intent is to leave Stamina regen at where it is now, so raising the total mostly just affects how many secondaries you can use before being fixed to your regen rate.

I think the Stamina Pool we have now would be fine if the game didn't put my Weapon away while I'm waiting for my Stamina Pool to regenerate.

I actually think there are some interesting dynamics around the choice of whether to use a high cost Attack as soon as you have the Stamina for it vs. waiting until you're almost full so that you still have a bit of Stamina for something else.

[Hogar, Freevale]

Since i am using an axe "build" i spam "carve" on groups as fast as stamina regenerates, resulting in waiting after two times
"carve" for stamina to regenerate, which is a little boring.

I understand this was indeed the intention when reducing stamina.

I would like a system where you buy stamina like power to a max of maybe 200 at skill 20. Would feel similiar to HP and power.

Side note: sspitfire1 started a similiar thread one minute after Nihimon or so. Andius has a good idea there i think. Maybe we should aggregate the threads. ;)

[Being]

Those major feats should be used sparingly if they deplete your stamina. I haven't often run out using the lower damage strikes interspersed with a high damage blow.

[DeciusBrutus]

With 200 stamina I could burst damage to wipe out anything in tier 1. With 100, I actually need to plan my attacks.

[KoTC Edam Neadenil]

No choice with a cleric you have to trash your stamina to do serious damage in melee.

I assume that is a design feature and working as expected.

[sspitfire1]

Hogar, Freevale wrote:

Side note: sspitfire1 started a similiar thread one minute after Nihimon or so. Andius has a good idea there i think. Maybe we should aggregate the threads. ;)

Ahem. It was 2 minutes before. Technically, I was here first. (j/k)

[KoTC Edam Neadenil]

Has it maybe possibly just you know vaguely crossed their minds to try an in between figure like you know 120 or even 150 if they think it needs tweaking ?

There seem an awful lot of jumping for major changes every time someone sneezes lately.

Stamina seems high - lets halve it. Now its too low lets double it.

Maybe some finesse ?

[<Kabal>Keign]

I am totally fine with the current amount of Stamina. It is easy to calculate the attacks I can use out of 100, for one thing.

Quote:

There seem an awful lot of jumping for major changes every time someone sneezes lately.

There is a fine line between jumping every time someone sneezes and being unresponsive. I'm fine with these conversations happening, even if (perhaps especially if) they don't end up resulting in changes. People get persnickety when they don't feel heard.

[Urman]

KoTC Edam Neadenil wrote:

Has it maybe possibly just you know vaguely crossed their minds to try an in between figure like you know 120 or even 150 if they think it needs tweaking ?

There seem an awful lot of jumping for major changes every time someone sneezes lately.

Stamina seems high - lets halve it. Now its too low lets double it.

Maybe some finesse ?

I read an interview once, of Brian Reynolds I think, the guy heavily involved with Civilization and other Sid Meier's world builders. He explained that if AI didn't work, they'd typically double or halve variables to start. After things started moving the way the Devs wanted it, then they'd try finesse. Half-measures at the beginning didn't change things enough; they'd always start with big changes.

[sspitfire1]

Urman wrote:

KoTC Edam Neadenil wrote:

Has it maybe possibly just you know vaguely crossed their minds to try an in between figure like you know 120 or even 150 if they think it needs tweaking ?

There seem an awful lot of jumping for major changes every time someone sneezes lately.

Stamina seems high - lets halve it. Now its too low lets double it.

Maybe some finesse ?

I read an interview once, of Brian Reynolds I think, the guy heavily involved with Civilization and other Sid Meier's world builders. He explained that if AI didn't work, they'd typically double or halve variables to start. After things started moving the way the Devs wanted it, then they'd try finesse. Half-measures at the beginning didn't change things enough; they'd always start with big changes.

That is actually an excellent point. If nothing else, we get to think hypothetically about how the game will function at the extremes. From time to time we might decide to try the game out at the extremes. But in the end we will probably always end up back somewhere in the middle- unless an extreme just happens to be what the doctor ordered.

[Tyveil]

As a longbow user, I very rarely use the high stamina feats (most often only use feats 1-3). They burn up my entire stamina pool in one use and make the rest of the fight difficult if there are multiple mobs. I'm sure I probably need to do something to improve my build.

[Hogar, Freevale]

sspitfire1 wrote:

Hogar, Freevale wrote:

Side note: sspitfire1 started a similiar thread one minute after Nihimon or so. Andius has a good idea there i think. Maybe we should aggregate the threads. ;)

Ahem. It was 2 minutes before. Technically, I was here first. (j/k)

Although you are just kidding, my apologies. From my perspective, it was in the middle of the night when i wrote my post and i was very sleepy.

I should have gone to bed instead of posting. Again, sorry.

[sspitfire1]

Hogar, Freevale wrote:

sspitfire1 wrote:

Hogar, Freevale wrote:

Side note: sspitfire1 started a similiar thread one minute after Nihimon or so. Andius has a good idea there i think. Maybe we should aggregate the threads. ;)

Ahem. It was 2 minutes before. Technically, I was here first. (j/k)

Although you are just kidding, my apologies. From my perspective, it was in the middle of the night when i wrote my post and i was very sleepy.

I should have gone to bed instead of posting. Again, sorry.

Hogar, compared to some of the posts I put up over the weekend in the middle of the night when *I* should have just gone to bed, you are totally fine ;)

[Dazyk]

Using a two-handed Greatsword, I often find myself out of stamina very quickly in fights. With Longsword, I don't notice it as much.

My standard rotation is:

Use gap closer: Passing Step Thrust
Use primary attack: any
(wait for group of mobs to somewhat surround me)
Use AoE attack
Out of Stamina, and usually still have 2 or 3 enemies left.

[KoTC Edam Neadenil]

Dazyk wrote:

Using a two-handed Greatsword, I often find myself out of stamina very quickly in fights. With Longsword, I don't notice it as much.

My standard rotation is:

Use gap closer: Passing Step Thrust
Use primary attack: any
(wait for group of mobs to somewhat surround me)
Use AoE attack
Out of Stamina, and usually still have 2 or 3 enemies left.

You need a sightly different technique for longsword versus greatsword.

The longsword AoE whirlwind is "splash to self" and hits everything around you.

The greatsword AoE cleave is "short blast melee" and is a cone in the direction of the target centered on you.

[Kurok]

I like how the stamina pool is now. If you take the time to plan your attacks you don't run out really fast. Even when you are out of stamina, it doesn't take a long time to regen so you still are able to attack pretty frequently.

[KoTC Edam Neadenil]

Current stamina limits the ability of melee fighters to stand around in combat like a big dumb oaf and hit "1" continually.

I approve of the lower stamina.

[Zindarak]

I agree 200 was too much, but i would like to test with little more, around 120 to 150.

[KotC Carbon D. Metric]

Why not keep testing and if 100 works out well enough for low levels, perhaps putting in a Training Feat that bumps your Stamina 10 points per rank up to 10 ranks? You can gate the feat with a Role (Any) 1-20 requirement that graduates as the player levels.

[KoTC Edam Neadenil]

KotC Carbon D. Metric wrote:

Why not keep testing and if 100 works out well enough for low levels, perhaps putting in a Training Feat that bumps your Stamina 10 points per rank up to 10 ranks? You can gate the feat with a Role (Any) 1-20 requirement that graduates as the player levels.

ah meaningful choices

now that I would approve of

[Nihimon]

I would just like to make the point that Exhausted 70 is an entirely different thing when max Stamina is 100 than when it is 200.

[Stephen Cheney]

Nihimon wrote:

I would just like to make the point that Exhausted 70 is an entirely different thing when max Stamina is 100 than when it is 200.

Well, it should scale now (I squeezed that into the requests when Cole was adjusting stacking debuffs since we'd started fiddling with Stamina totals). Half your stacks of Exhausted = the percentage reduction in Stamina and Stamina regen. So if you have Exhausted 70, you have 35% less max stamina (so 65 right now, but 130 if it was back at 200) and your stamina only regens at 6.5 per second.

[Nihimon]

Stephen Cheney wrote:

Nihimon wrote:

I would just like to make the point that Exhausted 70 is an entirely different thing when max Stamina is 100 than when it is 200.

Well, it should scale now (I squeezed that into the requests when Cole was adjusting stacking debuffs since we'd started fiddling with Stamina totals). Half your stacks of Exhausted = the percentage reduction in Stamina and Stamina regen. So if you have Exhausted 70, you have 35% less max stamina (so 65 right now, but 130 if it was back at 200) and your stamina only regens at 6.5 per second.

Hrm. I'm working from the Effects that Valkenr pulled out of one of the early Alpha Guides. If it's not too much trouble, I'd love to see an official Effects table in your spreadsheet.

Quote:

Exhausted (Stacking Debuff) This debuff represents exhaustion due to electric attacks and other painful attacks that “knock the wind out of” the target. It penalizes maximum Stamina. Reduces max Stamina by amount equal to [Stack Size] and proportionately lowers Stamina regeneration

There's still a very significant difference because 65 Stamina completely rules out certain attacks (30 Stamina locks out quite a few more), whereas 130 Stamina doesn't really have the same kind of impact.