Actually that brings up a question. Now, I am to understand that Pathfinder has a rule that you can have an a ability score more than once to a single check. But what if the bonuses are different? Gladiator Prescence gives you your charisma in CMB checks. Whilst Gambit's give you your charisma bonus to any d20 check you make for a Gambit, which for Sweeping Gambit, would be your trip attempt... would you get the Charisma twice, because its applying in two very different ways?
This has been answered before, so I can just tell you this one.
That FAQ ruling only applies to typeless bonuses. So in this particular case, Gladiator's presence is a Morale bonus and all Gambits provide Luck bonuses. This means that they can stack. If you find an untyped way to add Charisma to this, it will stack too.
You can't stack the same ability bonus to the same roll, even if you're getting it two different ways. Ability bonuses are treated like typed bonuses in that way.
That being said, if you got something like a competence bonus equal to your Charisma bonus from one effect, and then added your Charisma bonus from another effect, that would stack.
Damn... I was afraid that the ruling was like that, I just hoped it wasn't... and now that you mention it, I think I need to point out that all the Prescence is 'gain the warlord’s Charisma modifier', except Warning Presence, which for some reason has the entire 'equal to charisma' wording instead. Just a little odd imo...
Do you know of any abilitie that have the wording which you mention by any chance?
Also... on the subject of Gambits... If I'm using Sweeping Gambit, and I'm shield bashing with the Malestorm Shield in order to activate its trip effect, would I get the Charisma Bonus to attack? Because that is in aid in accomplishing the gambit correct?
That FAQ ruling only applies to typeless bonuses. So in this particular case, Gladiator's presence is a Morale bonus and all Gambits provide Luck bonuses. This means that they can stack. If you find an untyped way to add Charisma to this, it will stack too.
Huh, I never knew it was only to typeless bonuses... I thought that was the case but I guess I should of made it clear that one was morale, and the over was gambit. But still, its very good to know that my Shield Bashing, Trip Machine Vanguard Commander Warlord is on track!
Just a pity it doesn't quite work that well with Piercing Thunder for the shield and spear combonation.
You can't stack the same ability bonus to the same roll, even if you're getting it two different ways. Ability bonuses are treated like typed bonuses in that way.
That being said, if you got something like a competence bonus equal to your Charisma bonus from one effect, and then added your Charisma bonus from another effect, that would stack.
Oh, was I mistaken? Do they need to have that specific language, or does them just being typed work?
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Tomorrow, I'm going to see what I can do about making a large reply to summarize my feedback about every single feat in the feat document.
Tomorrow, I'm going to see what I can do about making a large reply to summarize my feedback about every single feat in the feat document.
Sounds good! I just finished with mine actually.
Oh look. The traits are here too. I already love these three traits, and have given my opinion on them many times. No problems here.
Agile Dancer is pretty cool, though I honestly think it could have been a trait, like This or this.
Animus healing is hilarious, since I know that in the 10 rounds after combat ends, the Mystic can use this a minimum of 10 times. I don't think it is broken, just funny.
Battle Fervor is cool. Any chance of it being Sacred or Profane damage if the character is aligned?
Channeled Recovery is cool! Though I don't see a reason to keep its maneuvers known prerequisite. This could make a cool feat for a straight cleric that wants to help out its initiating party.
Darksilver Initiate is awaiting future updates. No point in reviewing it here.
Diverse Training feels too strong, but I think it was being changed? Not sure. If anything, I think removing the scaling to the initiator class abilities should be taken out, considering how good the first part of this feat is.
Electrum Manticore is cool in that you can break action economy with it. I think it needs an extra push though. One kind of push it could have would be not limiting it to per-encounter. Mirror of the Moon is a good comparison point, as it is infinite use and quite useful.
Elemental Sun feels superfluous with the new Solar Wind feat that was just released.
Enduring Protector is way cool! I think it should be enhanced to say "temporary Hit Points equal to the slain creatures Hit Dice or equal to the amount of temporary hit points you would gain from Martial Power. Whichever is higher." This is definitely a good feat line for a tough tank.
Feral Goddess needs a rework. One could just take Weapon Group Adaptation and be better served, as it would do everything Feral Goddess does, while also benefiting racial features and class features that grant natural attacks. This feat needs a little push, and probably should get a power point reduction like Forge of the Goddess.
Flowing Mithril Fist deserves a shoutout separate from the "This is all good" section because its just cool. Way too cool. Not only does it give its nice silver bonus, but it also helps get around some of the feat intensiveness that using Mithril Current and unarmed strikes would normally require.
Forge of the Goddess is cool, and it grants a power point cost reduction. I think this feat needs a little more.
Giant Slayer is wonderful for helping get past a very crappy higher level adventurer problem. Better yet, you won't need dodge and mobility anymore!
Mirror of the Moon has a ridiculous amount of cool factor, and is also one of the strongest of the combo discipline feats. It is not broken, but I just wanted to stress how cool it is.
Molten Silver Strike feels like it could use a bit of a boost. Perhaps it could increase the range of the ranged Mithril Current strikes?
Sorcerous Bloodline may be a little hard to use, depending on which bloodline you wish to advance. Its basically best off for bloodlines with minimal reliance of Charisma. Nothing is wrong with it balance wise though, as when it works, it REALLY works.
Now for the style feats.
Black Seraph Style is actually my favorite style. I have already built a Brutal Slayer to utilize it, and I have plans to use it with a Privateer as well. Every one of the Black Seraph feats are powerful, useful, and very cool. They work with the available debuffs of Black Seraph as well.
Broken Blade Style is interesting in that it introduces a new way to play Broken Blade. It doesn't interrupt Broken Blade's action economy, but it certainly adds to it. This style itself is fine, but it might be overwhelming in play until BB gets its nerfs.
Cursed Razor Style is a very strong style feat chain. Thankfully, the classes best at using it are also feat starved. Definitely a good line. Cursed Razor Plague is exceptionally cool, as your character spreads their curses far and wide.
Elemental Flux Style feels weak. The first feat in the line is okay, and doesn't really need to be changed. The second feat is just not good, and wastes a swift action to grant its effects. I'd rather just take Elements as One instead of Shift. The third feat is just not worth it. You would still have to spend the standard action activating the elemental burst effect after using your swift action to enter the style at the beginning of combat. Between entering the style, the standard action to activate the elemental burst, and Shift requiring a swift action, this style eats up way too many actions for less benefit than most styles feat chains.
Eternal Guardian Style is cool, but it is overly reliant on cursing when most classes that would want to use it don't have good ways of getting maximum curses out. Harbingers don't want this discipline, and Eternal Guardian itself doesn't hand out curses the way Cursed Razor or a Harbinger can.
Golden Lion Style needs some work, but is close to where it should be. The flanking requirement should be removed on the first feat, Charge is great, and Command should be strengthened.
Iron Tortoise style is fine. Psybomb's feedback has the right of it.
Mithril Current Style is great. Perfect for someone that would rather take 3 feats than be a Bushi. My only problem is that Mithril Current Slice is really, very strong for anyone with Mithril Current. Sadly, Bushi would have to take a dead feat to access Slice.
I already gave feedback on Piercing Thunder Style, where I said that the 1st feat is completely useless to strength using Piercing Thunder users. My suggestion was to have the feat provide some bonus to strength users that dex users would not be able to access, that way Piercing Thunder Style has no dead feats for anyone. ErrantX seemed to like that. Trample is great, no problems here.
Primal Fury Style is pretty cool I think. The style itself needs a "(minimum 5 feet)" added to it. Slash provides the awesome beserker and risk/reward feeling that Primal Fury should provide. I love Slash. Savagery is okay. I think Savagery should be replaced with a cool utility effect, instead of more damage.
Riven Hourglass Style is perfect. Please keep it the way it is.
Scarlet Throne Style is also just fine.
Shattered Mirror Style is perfect. I also want to point out that certain terrains, such as swamps, aren't actually difficult terrain and still hamper movement when you use Waltz. I personally Don't think Waltz should work on such terrains, but I just wanted to point it out in case the devs did intend for them to be able to move through such terrain.
Silver Crane is perfect.
For Sleeping Goddess Style, Psybomb has the right of it again. I don't think its overpowered though. This is a fantastic style for multiclassers, Pathwalkers, and such to use.
Solar Wind Style definitely needs a rework with how Solar Wind is being changed in this book. The 1st feat needs clarification for how long its illumination lasts.
Steel Serpent Style is very impressive. This will be amazing to use once Steel Serpent gets some updates.
Tempest Gale Style is great too. I especially like the capstone.
Thrashing Dragon Style is pretty cool I think, if I am reading it right. The 1st feat allows you to TWF on AOO's, right?
EDIT: This first feat does not work on AOOs. The 1st feat in Thrashing Dragon style should be buffed now that I know this. It should definitely work on AOOs and other standard attacks.
Pounce in fantastic when you use Thrashing Dragon maneuvers that only grant 1 attack (some of the best TD maneuvers out there!) and helps tremendously when using strikes from other disciplines. Whirlwind is pretty cool, but I will probably skip it in most builds, unless certain Primal Fury maneuvers are significantly nerfed.
Veiled Moon Style is a great feat chain. Especially when combined with Mirror of the Moon. All of its feats are quite useful, though I think the capstone could benefit greatly from being considered a Veiled Moon strike, since currently it would have 4 less of a DC than a Veiled Moon strike, due to not getting the +2 discipline weapon bonus, and the +2 from Discipline Specialization.
Sounds good! I just finished with mine actually.
Oh your Kaidinah in GiTP huh? Neat. I was originally just going to do a Style Feat feedback post in response, but your big overeview response pushed me to do the same!
I also need to get to work on my homebrew as well... I want to make a Style-focused PrC for Initiators... like, Master of Many Styles 2 is so potent right now, but it doesn't really feel like it fits the fluff of the majority of those builds and fighting styles. Give people more options for those style feats... through I got to make sure its not too powerful...
Yeah, I have come to the realization that their forum moves too fast, so I am just gonna post my big feedback blocks here and on GitP. That way they can be seen more easily by the dev team.
A PRC based on style feats sounds cool. Go for it.
I'll repost this from GitP too, since it was buried in the previous thread before it could be seen.
Duergar Stalker get 1/4th their level to their ki pool, but Humans get ½ their level.
Gnome Stalkers get 1/3rd of a Stalker Art, but Half-elves get 1/5th.
Half-Giants and Maenads have a ridiculously strong FCB with Zealots. They basically add another +5 to Zeal. I do not think this is okay. Especially when both were already amazing races to run with Zealot.
Chessman’s Gambit might sound cooler as Chessmaster’s Gambit. Not really a problem though.
Typo in War Soul’s Scarlet Throne Nobility “While in a Scarlet Throne stance and using a mind blade with one hand and nothing in the other, the war soul gains a +1 dodge bonus to his AC and a +1 insight bonus to Sense Motive checks to resist feint attempts or lied to.”
The Variable Wind feat, together with Elemental Flux, leads to a situation where each discipline has an active energy type unique to itself. Though this problem technically already existed, as you multiclassing with psionics was always possible. Elemental Flux with Acid, and Solar Wind with Sonic. When using Sonic, do elemental flux maneuvers turn off? Likewise with Solar Wind maneuvers that would deal energy damage.
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Diverse Training has gone the way of the Dodo, and in it's place we've got the following feats:
Pikeman’s Training [Combat]
Militaries across the land rely on lines of pikemen carrying both their long spears and a shield. You are familiar with this fighting style.
Prerequisite: BAB +1
Benefit: You can wield a two handed polearm in one hand, provided you are wielding a light or heavy shield in your other hand.
Short Haft [Combat]
Holding your polearm further up its length, you can strike adjacent foes as well as those further away.
Prerequisite: BAB +6
Benefit: You can attack adjacent enemies with your reach weapon until the end of your turn by taking a -2 penalty to AC for the round. You must decide to use this ability before any attacks are made.
--------------------------------
I've got a list of other feats that need fixing, but those are going to have to wait until tomorrow. I just got back from convincing a horde of over 200,000 kobolds that my friends and I are gods and they should worship us as such. So I'm kind of tired.
And there was much rejoicing! Thank you very much Elricaltovilla, and keep up the awesome work!
I've got a list of other feats that need fixing, but those are going to have to wait until tomorrow. I just got back from convincing a horde of over 200,000 kobolds that my friends and I are gods and they should worship us as such. So I'm kind of tired.
This sounds awesome. If you get the time later, please share?
by taking a -2 penalty to AC for the round. You must decide to use this ability before any attacks are made.
Is it really necessary? Sounds annoying to use. Maybe -2 to attack when attacking adjacent targets? Or said targets get +2 to attack you until the beginning of your next turn? Something that's not another moving part but a passive ability.
It's like Lunge.
... Well DAMN. Those two feats are without a doubt some of the most awesome feats imaginable! It opens up SO much possibility for builds and combinations, especially with Piercing Thunder! Still no spear TWFing, but that is a bit much.
Does Pikeman's Training apply to tower shields?
No it does not. It specifies light or heavy shields, so no bucklers or tower shields.
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Updates to Mystic on its maneuver readying section, should read a bit clearer now (i.e. trying to make it dummy proof and eliminate idiot mystic)
Loads of updates to the Systems and Use Expanded section.
-X
Okay, sorry. Runescape distracted me today... I'll try and get my big feedback reply done sometime today.
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Aaand cross-linking: clickity
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After receiving some excellent feedback regarding our feats, I've done some rewrites of a few of them:
Animus Healing [Combat]
You have learned how to channel your animus into healing energies.
Prerequisites: Possess an animus pool.
Benefits: Once per encounter, you can spend up to one point of animus per four initiator levels as a move action to heal 2d4 hit points per point of animus spent.
Channeled Recovery
You are able to use divine energy to restore your maneuvers.
Prerequisite: Channel Energy class feature
Benefit: When you channel energy to heal allies, allies in your channeled energy area may choose to forgo ½ the healing provided by your channel energy and instead recover 1 maneuver as a free action, even if it’s not their turn.
Silver Fang Initiate [Combat] (Formerly Darksteel Initiate)
You have learned how to combine talents from the Mithral Current and Steel Serpent disciplines.
Prerequisite: Quick Draw, 2 Steel Serpent Maneuvers known, 2 Mithral Current Maneuvers known
Benefit: When you use a steel serpent maneuver to deal ability score damage to a creature with vulnerability to silver, increase that ability score damage by 50%.
Electrum Manticore [Combat]
You’ve learned how to blend the arts of the Golden Lion and Silver Crane disciplines.
Prerequisite: 2 Silver Crane Maneuvers known, 2 Golden Lion Maneuvers known
Benefit: You may initiate a Golden Lion boost as part of assuming a Silver Crane stance, or initiate a Silver Crane boost as part of assuming a Golden Lion stance.
Elemental Sun [Combat]
You’ve trained in the techniques needed to blend your talents with the Elemental Flux and Solar Wind disciplines.
Prerequisites: 1 Elemental Flux Stance, 1 Solar Wind Stance
Benefits: When you initiate a Solar Wind maneuver while in an Elemental Flux stance, if you hit you may reduce the target of your maneuver’s elemental resistances (if any) by ½ your level (minimum 0) until the end of your next turn. Multiple applications of this ability do not stack, but they do increase the duration by one round.
Molten Silver Strike [Combat]
Prerequisite: Quick Draw, 2 Solar Wind Maneuvers known, 2 Mithral Current Maneuvers known
Benefit: You can use Solar Wind Boosts on Mithral Current strikes that allow you to attack enemies at range and when you do so, you can increase the range of the maneuver by 10 ft. plus an additional 5 ft. per 4 initiator levels.
Normal: Mithral Current strikes use melee attack rolls, which prevents them from being combined with maneuvers that affect ranged attacks.
Elemental Flux Style [Combat, Style]
Your understanding of Elemental Energies offers you defense as well as offense.
Prerequisites: 1 or more Elemental Flux stances, Spellcraft 3 ranks
Benefit: While this style is active, your attacks which deal energy damage deal ½ their damage as a second energy type of your choice (acid, cold, electricity or fire).
Mithral Current Flow [Combat]
Every mistake your opponent makes allows you to place yourself in better position to strike.
Prerequisites: Mithral Current Style, Perform (Dance) 7 ranks
Benefit: When an opponent misses an attack against you, you can move up to 10 ft. as a free action (even if it is not your turn). This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Primal Fury Style [Combat, Style]
Your fury drives you to close with your foes so that you can tear into them more easily
Prerequisites: 1 or more Primal Fury stances, Survival 3 ranks
Benefit: When you charge a creature, add a +5 ft competence bonus (minimum +5 ft.) to your charge distance for every 4 character levels.
Primal Fury Savagery [Combat]
You strike with speed and strength beyond that of any other
Prerequisites: Primal Fury Style, Primal Fury Slash, Survival 11 ranks
Benefit: When you charge an opponent, you gain an additional +2 bonus on your attack roll and your AC penalty does not apply to attacks made against you by the target of your charge.
Solar Wind Inferno [Combat]
The burning power of your arrows sears the flesh of even those immune to fire
Prerequisites: Solar Wind Style, Solar Wind Flash, Perception 11 ranks
Benefit: Your ranged attacks which deal fire damage ignore an amount of fire resistance equal to your character level. You treat Fire Immunity as Fire Resistance 30 for purposes of this effect.
Special: If you possess the Variable Winds feat, your attacks ignore energy resistance of the same type as your active energy type and treat the energy immunity of your active type as having energy resistance 30 of your active energy type for purposes of this effect
Veiled Moon Step [Combat]
As you move, your form flickers in and out of sight, appearing far away
Prerequisites: Veiled Moon Style, Stealth 7 ranks
Benefit: You may expend one of your readied boosts as a swift action. If you do, increase your base land speed by 10 ft. until the beginning of your next turn, and you may teleport a number of feet equal to your base land speed as a move action this turn. You must have line of sight to your destination.
In addition, Riven Hourglass Rewind and Riven Hourglass Eternity have had their positions switched.
Elrica. You son of a gun. I'm going to have to go and rewrite my big feat review now! Through from what I can see... I can't say I mind.
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Okay so, here we go! Reviewing every single feat in the feat document! Going to make one post with just the generic feats, and another one with all the style feats... you know, less of a big read?
Animus Healing is a good feat, the fact that an encounter only technically ends 10 rounds after the last enemy, means that it can still be used for a top-up, as well as an emergency OH MY GOD I NEED MORE HEALTH ability. That being said... it doesn’t really scale that well. 10d4 health, isn’t exactly useful at level 20, as that’s the amount of damage 1 attack heals... maybe at every 10 IL, you double the healing dice Animuns point or something? Give it better scaling?
I do like Battle Fevour, as it really helps out Paladin’s and Warpriests... however, it does strike me that Initiating Paladin’s, actually lose their lay on hands feature... so, they can’t actually use this ability. Maybe there should be a Special caveat for Paladin’s who take the Path of War Expanded Archetype.
Blight Flight is good, if mean. Especially when combined with Malevolence. A Harbringer can easily pick those two feats up, and inflict an enemy with a -2 to saving throws against their maneuvers. A potent combination... but not a game ending combination. I also like seeing feats work together.
Channeled Recovery gives Channel Energy actual use at higher end levels, especially when you're playing with an initiating party, and at early levels when its healing is still useful, you don’t lose all of it either! But I go to point out that it has the exact same problem as Battle Fevour does... Knight Disciple can’t use it at all!
Dark Allure and Dark Authority are both excellent abilities. Ramping up as you go up levels, and lets you claim enemies for long, and thus have more enemies claimed at once. Works amazing with Grasp of Darkness to give 3 enemies a -3 attack penalty at the cost of just a swift action... but whilst we’re on it. Does Dark Allure and Dark Authority, and the other claiming abilities, work with the Soul Hunter Stalker, and its Soul Claiming Ability? That is claiming people, right?
Talking about that, Dark Presence would work much better for the Soul Hunter, as it would really let them focus down on one enemy... of course, it always works wonders for a Harbinger... especially one with a Warder dip to really get use out of intelligence. Their Voices in the Dark ability will really like this.
Silver Fang Initiate is a GODSEND. Especially if you go for the Mirthal Style feat-line and get the final feat! With the fact that Steel Serpent is going to be getting a rework, along with this feet makes me really hopeful that ability damage and poison is actually going to be an effective fighting style at later levels!
Electrum Manticore meanwhile, is an amazing way to boost your action economy especially with the fact that it encourages you to use boosts and stance switch is an encouraging sign imo. Because honestly, apart from a few cases, I see myself sticking to one/two stances per encounter.
Elements as One... yeah. Staple for the Mystic. Nothing else to say.
Elemental Current is another amazing combo feat, and I can easily see a Rubato bard picking this feat up. Whilst I seriously think there is too many Mithral Current maneuvers that simply give you a silvered weapon instead of vulnerability to silver, especially at higher levels. This is still an excellent feat... even if the nova properties of this with Element Flux is rather insane!
Elemental Focus is more thematic than anything. as with Elements as One, its not really necessary anymore. That being said, it does work well with say, Solar Wind and the Phoenix Champion. Lets you really start using your fire damage to burn even beings made of fire, which is an awesome feeling. So, whilst its not the strongest feat, I like it!
I really love the rework to Elemental Sun, along with Elemental Focus it's a great way to focus on a single element. Not only does it really let you start cutting down on energy resistance, but it works even better when you're with a party that also has an element focus! Even better if they have the feat as well! Even if it doesn’t stack.
Enduring Protector I’m iffy on... unless you're facing against a horde of minions, I honestly don’t see this being used much, if at all. I do agree that it needs the caveat of being equal the slain enemies hit die, or the highest amount of THP you can get Martial Power, that way it is useful against a horde of minions.
Eternal Hourglass is simply AMAZING. I do think it needs to be hard limited at /encounter due to the sheer power it has, but at the same time, it is restricted, so keeping it to just 1/encounter with no scaling doesn’t really speak well to me. Maybe have you gain another use of it every 10 IL?
Feral Goddess and Forge of the Goddess are very similar and decent abilities, as that +2 DC is great... but the fact that Forge gives you a PP reduction, and Feral Goddess doesn’t is rather strange... I also wonder if a bit more could be given to those classes... like a bit of scaling and furth PP reduction?
Giant Slayer is asking to be used with Martial Charge or charging maneuvers... and depending on your campaign, can be very useful, or incredibly useless... you definitely want to be a monster hunter to be grabbing this feat.
I do like Hone Weapon. I’m unlikely to pick it up, as I tend to use feat-intensive builds. However, it is a great way to get just that little bit extra damage with your weapons. Not to mention it does have fluff, as it shows someone that takes good and possibly meticulous care of their weapons.
Heighten Maneuver is a little... odd all things considered. Its basically a meta-maneuverer feat, yet it's also a psionic only feat. It also helps give further life expectancy to old maneuvers, especially save-reliant maneuvers. Even then I feel like its use is limited.
Improved Blade Meditation is... useful. For the Mystic that likes using Blade Mediation a lot, or just has a feat or two to spare. I don’t foresee too many people picking up this feat. But the fact that we do have the option to take it is important in my book.
Katana Expertise is something I love! Especially as it's not just ‘treat it as a light weapon’ or ‘increase your damage die’, but both at once, which I think it very good. Helps both size-buffing builds, and dexterity crit-fishing builds.
Malevolence is a very potent ability, whilst the -2 to CMB isn’t likely to turn up that much, its nice to have along with the -2 skills... but of course, the real fact is that it curses when you claim... helping both the Harbringer, AND the Soul Hunter (which also gets Cursed Razor) out quite significantly... maybe a bit too much however, with how easy it makes cursing.
Mirror of the Moon is just such a wonderful fun little feat! Leave behind a Major Image whenever you teleport to confuse the enemy! Pity there’s nothing to let you use a major image to flank or flat-floot an enemy, as it would let you make very fun builds out of this little ability.
Molten Steel Strike is fun, not only letting you use Solar Wind boosts, but also increasing the range of the Wave feats! ... Wait... the wave feats give vulnerability to silver... which elemental current can change into 50% energy weakness... and to use this, you use a Solar Wind maneuver, which activates Elemental Sun... MANIACAL LAUGHTER
Pinning Arrow... its cool and all... but I don’t really see many characters ever actually using it... maybe a Tempest Gale Warlord with the Gladiator Presence, but apart from that... I don’t know, it just doesn’t speak to me on the same level as other abilities.
As others have pointed out, Prodigious Two-Weapon Fighting still leaves you with the huge penalties of TWFing, meaning unless you gain a bonus feat at level 1, its not really a viable style at level 1... I understand having to get TWFing in the first place... but as my main interest is using this with shield-bashing, I really think it should let you two-weapon fight as if you had the feat... but you’ll still need to pick TWFing up to get stuff like Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
Reach Through Shadows is good thematically... but I can’t actually see the benefits of taking this currently. Can someone explain why I would take this?
Seize the Opportunity giving more life to Vital Strike, as well as CMB maneuvers is a great thing. Its not a feat that most people will take, but it's still an awesome feat regardless, and I might think of picking it up with my polearm wielding trip-master shield bashing warlord... when I have enough feats.
Sin Eater, along with Dark Alure, are rather odd in that they making it possible for Soul Hunter’s and Harbringers - classes that don’t have the highest hit die - to be a sorta of pseudo secondary tank... or I guess Sin Eater just increases your survivability in drawn out battles.
Sorcerous Bloodline is pretty awesome, even if it does quite heavily favour dipping over full out multi-classing. 1 level sorcerer dip to grab the spellcasting, and then 19 mythics with a full 20 levels of bloodline! Not to mention you can go crossblooded for even more shenagians!
Winds of War is lovely, especially for the Bleak Emerissay! However, its useless for the Omen Rider... and I was wondering if they could get a special caveat about being able to give that speed boost to their mounts instead?
Crossposting from GitP.
Rubato keeps cantrips (0-level spells) funnily enough. Not sure if intended. Either way, this is a very cool class. I really wanted bardic performance somewhere in PoW, and this class does a lot more than that.
Myrmidon still has his own maneuver progression table. This is the first time I have wanted to play a fighter for more than 2 levels of dipping.
Omen Rider needs some work, and Tekevil on GitP wrote some stuff about it that I agree with. Thematically, this archetype is very cool. Bringing doom-horses to any concept always makes everything fun.
Monk of the Silver Fist is one of my favorite archetypes in the document. It finds a new role and brings it to life.
Knight Disciple recovery, in comparison to Monk of the Silver Fist recovery feels a bit strong. While I am usually a paladin hater, this archetype's Censures Mark and Guardian Shield mechanics were able to win me over. No problems here.
Nothing more to say on Ambush Hunter. I like where it is now.
Hidden Blade is as good of a initiator conversion for the Rogue, and is a trade up, just like the Myrmidon. It looks compatible with most rogue archetypes as well.
Vigilante Stalker is a bit overtuned. It has a few too many sneak attack dice considering how little it gives up. As a 9/9 initiator, the Vigilante should be able to reliably sneak attack nearly every round, making its current 10d6 sneak attack a lot better than the previous Deadly Strikes.
Brutal Slayer is awesome, and I have no real complaints.
Fiendish Marauder is a highly transformative archetype. It gives up very strong class features for other, strong class features. I personally feel that it is a little weaker than the base Warder, but it certainly allows curse using disciplines to function much better. Altogether, a very strong and cool archetype.
Ordained Defender. I still don't think it should switch away from intelligence, but other than that, this feels like a fair archetype.
Desperado is a great Warlord archetype. I see no reason to look at gunslinger with Desperado around. Besides, Tempest Gale Stance is a lot funner than Gun Training, and actually lets you change firearms.
Bleak Emissary is still Harbinger+, and its previous nerfs barely addressed this. Why does it still have scaling bonuses to maneuver save DCs and attack rolls? It already gets buffed usage of a powerful style feat tree, while still being allowed to access other style feats. Withered Bond removes one of the Bleak Emissary's few weaknesses, which boggles my mind because it already is so darn strong.
Hey wait a minute... Warder no longer offers Eternal Guardian and Piercing Thunder, it offers EG and Scarlet Throne instead. Dervish Defender offers EG and Riven Hourglass instead of EG & PT... sneaky sneaky...
Hey wait a minute... Warder no longer offers Eternal Guardian and Piercing Thunder, it offers EG and Scarlet Throne instead. Dervish Defender offers EG and Riven Hourglass instead of EG & PT... sneaky sneaky...
Yeah, that was a copy/paste thing I forgot to cover.
-X
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So I've been saying for a bit now that I've been trying to think of a replacement for Tenebrous Reach. I think I have one.
Vengeful Oath (Su): Starting at 13th level, the harbinger may move up to her speed as a free action (even if it's not her turn) whenever she is targeted by a ranged attack, including ranged spells that require an attack roll. This movement must be towards the source of the attack. The harbinger may only move up to twice her highest speed in one round with this ability.
If Vengeful Oath is going to happen during the opponent's turn, calling it a free action murks things up a bit. I see why making it an immeiate action would be terrible however. How about making it count as an attack of op?
We've got plenty of "free action even if it's not your turn" abilities in Path of War and Path of War Expanded (Mithral Current is full of them). We do it this way to specify that these actions are legal off turn even if normal free actions aren't as a way of future proofing our product.
If Vengeful Oath is going to happen during the opponent's turn, calling it a free action murks things up a bit. I see why making it an immeiate action would be terrible however. How about making it count as an attack of op?
I'll note that this isn't the first case of us - or others - using "as a free action (even if it's not their turn)" as a phrase. That in mind, if I make it cost an AoO it'd restrain it down to 1/round usage without Combat Reflexes. Which might have to be a thing depending on how it tests out, but I'm not sure it's in need of choking back.
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If Vengeful Oath is going to happen during the opponent's turn, calling it a free action murks things up a bit. I see why making it an immeiate action would be terrible however. How about making it count as an attack of op?I'll note that this isn't the first case of us - or others - using "as a free action (even if it's not their turn)" as a phrase. That in mind, if I make it cost an AoO it'd restrain it down to 1/round usage without Combat Reflexes. Which might have to be a thing depending on how it tests out, but I'm not sure it's in need of choking back.
So, I personally don't know that a change to the ability is necessary (I haven't really evaluated it at all), but I will say that in Akashic Mysteries I've got several veils and abilities that trigger off-turn and use an AoO, and it's been great both for balance and for ease of execution. It tends to allow you to maximize your action economy without actually increasing your action economy the way open free actions do, and attacks if opportunity already have all the verbage for when they can be used attached.
That being said, I'd definitely keep a limit on the ability to a maximum number of feet per round, maybe even something like 5' / level spendable in 5' increments.
Hey guys, I just have a quick question about Fiendbound Marauder and the Warder disciplines. Forgive me if it's been asked before or is clearly addressed somewhere in the rules:
As far as I can tell; Fiendbound Marauder gives up one of the normal Warder disciplines to gain access to Eternal Guardian.
However, Warders have been changed to begin with Eternal Guardian.
So, is there something I'm missing or does FM get access to the same discipline twice? I assume it's just a redundancy of some sort, though that would mean they lose Golden Lion and Iron Tortoise just to pick up Cursed Razor (and possibly Black Seraph).
Again, sorry if this was already clarified elsewhere.
So, I've noticed that AGrinningCat posted a google document discussing their thoughts on the style feats... and I'm almost 100% in agreement with them in all honestly. I'm still going to do a review of several of the feats, but some of them I'm not going to cover because AGC pretty much nails it... which a lot of others are agreeing to from the looks of it...
Agile Dancer is now a social trait. That is all.
Question, will there be a trait that lets you swap out a disciplines key skill?
Question, will there be a trait that lets you swap out a disciplines key skill?
No, we're not planning something like this at this time.
Mostly we're looking for feedback on PrCs, revised feats that Elric recently posted, Zealot, and the Systems and Use chapter.
-X
No, we're not planning something like this at this time.
Mostly we're looking for feedback on PrCs, revised feats that Elric recently posted, Zealot, and the Systems and Use chapter.
-X
Damn, guess I'll just have to homebrew it in for Mithral Current. As for the more current stuff, I think the section that grants old classes new maneuver lists could be clarified abit in regards to disciplines that are in both the normal classes added list and that classes archetypes added list.
Alright, time for my review of all the Style Feats! I’m not going to actively be considering the Master of Many Styles Monk Archetype... because that with this leads to some seriously powerful combinations. With how negative it's viewed, kinda hoping to make my own PrC of it, that has better flavour, and less abusiveness (like skipping feats out of a chain), with the DM note/sidebar that if the PrC is in the game, then Master of Many Styles is advised to be banned
Course like I said, AGC’s document was brilliant, and this is mainly going to be my thoughts otherwise. Which... isn’t really going to be that much, because AGC pretty much covered everything amazingly well. So, I’m afraid this is going to be a little short.
As for Eternal Guardian Style, I’m all for changing it so it actually focuses on defending others, instead of going for the CMB route, but if you are still focused on CMB, then I must greatly advocate that you get an ability to start ignoring sizes for CMB as a new level 1 style feat. Then, I think you should change into a special CMB check... or when you successfully perform a CMB, expand a counter to give all allies in 30ft thp.
I agree that Golden Lion Command is not only overwhelming, but odd... the other two feats were about creating and using attack of opportunity against enemies... so maybe the captsone feat could be a strike replacer, and until the start of your next turn, the enemy provokes an AoO from everyone but you when it moves/attacks? Though only up to a certain amount per round per ally.
Mithral Current Slice.... I love it, but I just feel like that Mithral Current don’t have another inbuilt means of gaining silver vulnerability themselves without this... and that only onces a turn is very restrictive with the investment needed... I think it should be 1/round per enemy. Helps enliven the Mithral Current’s heavy counter theme.
Again, with Primal Fury, you need to remove the first, and drop the others down a tier. But this leaves the ‘capstone’ feat... and I suggest something to upgrade your ability to charge enemies. Like, maybe you could ignore one ‘unit’ on the battefield for your charge? Letting you charge though a friend or foe to hit a specific enemy... as long as you don’t end up in the same square of course.
For Riven Hourglass Eternity... I think you need to put a cap to it... like a 5 round cap... much as I don’t like it myself, its too powerful otherwise. I love the feat, and it's fantastic is both a theme and power sense... but it's just a little /too/ strong.
Still think Sleeping Goddess Style should have a special, in case you have other means of reducing the time it takes to get up your psionic meditation.
Honestly, Steel Serpent Venom is neat and all... but I really think that you should get something like Black Seraph Annihilation... get the ability to ignore ability damage immunities. That way, you’ll still be able to do ability damage at all levels... I have no idea when people start getting ability damage... but you don’t need to take it at level 11.
Honestly, for Tempest Gale... I like how you took it with Haze, and wouldn’t mind the style taking on a more anti-ranged approach... becoming a ranged archer killer sounds like it could fit very well, what with Tempest Gale being ‘I am a master archer!’
TD again has the tier drop and swap, and for the new capstone, taking into account the combat roll maneuvers... I suggest making an enemy you hit with 2 weapons flat-flooted until the end of the turn... if you expanded a maneuverer as a swift action of course.
The Sleeping Goddess style can just be re-written to "When you spend an action to gain psionic focus you may also regain one maneuver." No need for a special and can save on word count. This would limit it to actually using actions that regain psionic focus and exclude abilities that grant psionic focus as a benefit/rider effect.
If you want those to work as well, a simple "When you gain psionic focus, you can regain a maneuver." works.
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Some updates!
Mystic is coming out in July, so right around the corner for those of you with subscriptions. Zealot is going to be following soon behind. Any last feedback for revision zealot is imperative to get in to us. Send it by way of carrier pigeon if you must. We need it. Same goes for its archetypes. After that we're going to release the supplemental stuff (PrC's, Systems, Traditions, bulk load of archetypes). We're working out a Mounted Combat fix we're going to release soon as well, as there aren't any specific rules yet - the RAW (or in this case unwritten) don't tell you how stuff interacts. We're going to work this out, stick it in the systems chapter and release that to you all very very soon. Last touches on it still remain.
So here are the two archetypes I've got for you (once we get some feedback in on them, we'll add them to the master archetype list):
The Nightmare is a bit of a brute-force oriented dread who blends some facets of Harbinger and Soul Hunter. Like in Firefly, there's a gun out there carrying a bullet with your name on it, and this dread is the guy carrying the sword with your name on it. He gives up his Twin Soul and some powers known, a few bits there and here, and gains some pretty sweet tricks plus maneuvers.
The Mind's Eye Disciple is a marksman (written by Kaidinah!) who forgoes his normal psychic honing in order to achieve mastery over his martial teachings. I have a little bit of a thought bubble on this one because I love the class features, but I am not sure if dumping all powers known is necessary.
So there's that announcement. Have at it!
-X
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I'd like to start by saying that the Aegis is an amazingly well designed class, to the point where I struggled a great deal trying to find something I was OK with them losing in favor of maneuvers. Unfortunately a full archetype just doesn't accomplish what we want for the Aegis Initiator so I've added new Aegis customizations to the Archetypes document, available for review now.
I feel that the Initator Soul is too powerful to be just a 1 point customiaztion. Especially with the sheer flexibility it involves... but if your going to give Aegis initating via customization, why don't you make a unquie astral suit formation for him?
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Possible Mounted Combat Fix
Maneuvers and Mounted Combat
When a martial disciple initiates a martial maneuver (strike or boost) during a mounted charge attack, the initiation of the maneuver overrides the damage bonuses that are sometimes gained (such as from the feat Spirited Charge or while wielding a lance) while performing this action. The initiator inflicts damage as if it were a normal attack while mounted and then the strike and/or boost’s additional damage and effects apply to the target. If the strike includes a charge attack component, the initiator’s mount forgoes its action this round and performs a full round action to facilitate the movement portion of the strike and may move up to twice its base movement speed as if it were charging. Apply the effects of the strike to the initiator’s attack at the end of this charge as normal.
Initiation of a martial stance (or mounting a creature while in a martial stance), negates the effects of the stance while mounted (the martial disciple being unable to perform the footwork and the body positions necessary for the stance while astride their mount). Martial counters are unaffected by being mounted, and may be applied or used as normal.
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Gets rid of the ability to do those ridiculous lancer + Spirited charge + maneuver dumb things that existed previously. Sucks for those who were enjoying abusing it, but it levels the playing field to not caring about what kind of weapon you're using. Spirited Charge is just the one taking it on the nose.
-X
That works. I'm sad that you dropped the lance's damage bonus, as it was a combonation of fluff and mechanics that I absolutely loved, but I suppose I can see why you would drop it. Either way, it should make it so doing initation on a mount has its pro's and cons. You can the speed and mobility of a mount, but you do lose your martial stances.
Through with that... I think maybe the Omen Rider should be looked at, as it pratically can't function without its horse, and losing all possible martial stances is a signifcant reduction in power compared to what it gains in my opinion.
That works. I'm sad that you dropped the lance's damage bonus, as it was a combonation of fluff and mechanics that I absolutely loved, but I suppose I can see why you would drop it. Either way, it should make it so doing initation on a mount has its pro's and cons. You can the speed and mobility of a mount, but you do lose your martial stances.
Through with that... I think maybe the Omen Rider should be looked at, as it pratically can't function without its horse, and losing all possible martial stances is a signifcant reduction in power compared to what it gains in my opinion.
Next on the list is addressing Omen Rider and Hussar on that front. I'm going to discuss it with Elric today.
-X
Those should be addressed now - Hussar and Omen Rider's language has been updated to allow them stance use while mounted.
-X
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Right. Normal initator's can't mount up and use stances, but mounted initator's are trained for it, so they don't have that weakness. Sounds completely fair to me!
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I completely am OK with that big block o sweet sweet text!
Though for the Omen Rider I would be more comfortable if their miss chance stayed at 20% throughout their career instead of becoming 50%.
It's up near permanently with a small mounted charger and seems a bit much of an advantage over base Harbinger. Also as long as you have Ride By Attack the target of your strike can't make an AoO.
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I can see that - it gets crazy yeah. I think I'll do that.
-X
I'd like to start by saying that the Aegis is an amazingly well designed class, to the point where I struggled a great deal trying to find something I was OK with them losing in favor of maneuvers. Unfortunately a full archetype just doesn't accomplish what we want for the Aegis Initiator so I've added new Aegis customizations to the Archetypes document, available for review now.
I like what you've done with it! Though I do have a suggestion. Could the customizations get special text allowing them to be taken by the Aberrant Aegis archetype?
Just for the record, I think that we should have a feat to get mounted stances back for the non-mount focused classes. I understand that people don’t like losing their stances for mounted combat, but at the time getting a mount is quite a boost in mobility, which is basically worth a stance. Plus, if you haven’t trained for mounted combat, it makes sense you shouldn’t be as good as fighting on horse as you are on the ground.