Summon and encounter a random ship, or a random monster if you are not on a ship. If the summoned card is undefeated, leave this barrier faceup on the location deck and put the summoned card next to it. Characters at this location encounter the summoned card as their first exploration each turn.
If the summoned card is defeated, banish it; this barrier is also defeated.
* (I hope it is OK to quote the complete text for this card.)
The ship is anchored at another location, so a random monster is summoned and encountered. The check to defeat is 13 and I use Caltrops to evade the encounter.
Would you agree that evading the summoned random monster banishes it (because summoned monsters are banished after the encounter unless instructed otherwise), and that since the monster is neither defeated nor undefeated (because of the evasion), the resolution for the barrier is that it is undefeated and shuffled back into the location deck?
Hmmmm.... That is a pickle. The card has text describing how you defeat the barrier. So, the barrier definitely isn't defeated. And, by the text of the card, you don't meet the criteria for leaving it face up. So, what you are proposing seems the best interpretation you can arrive at.
I was about to write up a different thought, and I realized I read your question incorrectly.
On the first encounter, I agree with you that evading the summoned monster has the effect of evading the barrier itself. On subsequent encounters, I'd say that evading the monster leaves it with the faceup Pirate Hunting card (which is the question I thought you were asking until I read it more carefully).
I feel like in this case "if the summoned card is undefeated" should also included evaded and so you should leave the barrier face up.
|
So you think the barrier and the summoned monster are face-up or just the barrier? If just the barrier, then what gets done with it? The summoning is already done. It is a useless barrier. You don't resummon a monster. And evading a monster is valid. It is then un-summoned.
I'd say it doesn't make sense to leave the barrier there face-up. The monster is evaded and gone. The barrier is undefeated. And the barrier gets reshuffled.
I think I would just play it as "If the summoned card is not defeated" instead of "If the summoned card is undefeated" to simplify the matter, at least until a gamedev clarifies. So evading would leave the monster next to the barrier on top.
I didn't have the card in front of me, so I missed the part about leaving the summoned thing in front of you too. :D That definitely puts a wrinkle in it, but my instinct is that you would leave pirate hunting up and, during the next relevant explore, run the text of the card from the top. In my head, the spirit of the game says it's more important that a card meant to inconvenience does so than getting off on a technicality.
My preference is to rule in favor of the game when it comes down to situations like this. To me, it generally feels more fair to judge in favor of a disadvantage than an advantage. But I wouldn't feel compelled to enforce that if I disagreed with someone at the table.
I would say that the card is evaded, but undefeated. The barrier clearly states that if the summoned card is undefeated it stays out next to the face-up barrier. The reason it stays out is because of the wording of the rule stated by the OP:
*because summoned monsters are banished after the encounter unless instructed otherwise*
You are being instructed to leave it there until defeated. Remember, the barrier is only encountered as the first exploration. So, if Marisiel uses her power to evade the summoned monster, she can continue to explore the rest of the deck (with blessings, allies, etc. of course) since the barrier is only in effect for the initial exploration... but the monster stays as it is still undefeated.
|
I would say that the card is evaded, but undefeated. The barrier clearly states that if the summoned card is undefeated it stays out next to the face-up barrier. The reason it stays out is because of the wording of the rule stated by the OP:
*because summoned monsters are banished after the encounter unless instructed otherwise*
You are being instructed to leave it there until defeated. Remember, the barrier is only encountered as the first exploration. So, if Marisiel uses her power to evade the summoned monster, she can continue to explore the rest of the deck (with blessings, allies, etc. of course) since the barrier is only in effect for the initial exploration... but the monster stays as it is still undefeated.
Undefeated and evaded are two different things. If you evade something, it is neither defeated nor undefeated. Undefeated isn't just "not defeated" in PACG.
I would argue that since the monster was neither undefeated nor defeated, the barrier doesn't have any instruction on what to do. I'd consider the barrier evaded and shuffled back into the location deck.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I've been thinking about this. I think the barrier itself counts as undefeated. Here is why. The summoned card can have 3 results, undefeated, defeated, and evaded.
Situation 1: If the summoned card is undefeated, leave this barrier faceup on the location deck and put the summoned card next to it. Characters at this location encounter the summoned card as their first exploration each turn.
This is what happens if the summoned card is undefeated. Not the barrier itself is not undefeated or defeated.
Situation 2: If the summoned card is defeated, banish it; this barrier is also defeated.
This is what happens when the summoned card is defeated. Not that it renders the barrier itself defeated.
Situation 3: If you evade the summoned card.
Check to Defeat: This is the skill check or combat check needed to defeat the bane. If the check is listed as “None,” the bane cannot be defeated.
With out the instructions of the powers of the barrier itself, the barrier can not be defeated. Evading the summoned cards means there are no powers on the barrier for you to follow. If it can not be defeated, it must be undefeated. Undefeated banes get shuffled back into the location deck.
So I'd consider the barrier itself undefeated. Shuffle it back into the location deck. If anything happens due to it being undefeated (some location or scenario power) then apply that power.
Issue addressed.
Thanks!
But…
I just went through your Temporary FAQ thread and there is this update to the rulebook:
Can Darago take a summoned monster into his hand?
No. Summoned cards always go back in the box after being encountered.
Resolution: In the Summoning and Adding Cards section on page 14 of the Skull & Shackles rulebook, change "After evading a summoned card or resolving the encounter with it, banish it unless you're instructed otherwise." to "After evading a summoned card or resolving the encounter with it, banish it-summoned cards always go back in the box and never go anywhere else."
It seems to me it would contradict your ruling on Pirate Hunting. As the rulebook would be using the word "never", the card wouldn't be able to overrule it (by The Golden Rule) and we'd be back to the original situation. Wouldn't we?
I mean… I would think Pirate Hunting is the perfect example of why the "banish it unless you're instructed otherwise" part is useful in the Summoning and Adding Cards section.
Darn it. Yes, that doesn't work either. OK, assume both Pirate Hunting works as I described it and that Darago works as I described him and that the wording of the FAQ entry will change to account for that.
Well, perhaps Vic final wording can take care of that. A simple enough thing might be to instead say "banish it unless the card that caused you to summon it instructs you otherwise."
That would also allow for the "summon and build" things to not be a contradiction.
