OK, my son and I are wanting to roll two Hunters to work in tandem together. This will be for PFS adventures and here are the things that we know.
Hunter 1:
Halfling
Wants to focus on Ranged Damage and control one effective pet.
Hunter 2:
Most likely Human
Ranged Damage, wants to go Packmaster and control two pets which will work together and take advantage of teamwork feats.
My questions revolve around how to allocate starting stats, which Feats to take early, and advice on which pets to use. We are currently able to use the Core Rulebook and Advanced Class Guide, but I will consider picking up another book if its required and opens up something fun.
Thanks in advance!
Advanced Class Guide?
Pack Flanking.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/pack-flanking-teamwork
Pack Flanking is a teamwork feat, but it means that you and your companions flank as long as you are adjacent or sharing a square and both have this feat. This is especially powerful with Outflank and Precise Strike which gives you, basically, permanent Flanking, +4 on Flanking, and +1d6 points of precise damage that stacks with other sources of Precise damage on flanking damage.
Also it means that when you crit, your ally obtains an attack of opportunity. If you get a Keen weapon with an 15-20 range on Crits, you can do some serious work with your companions.
The best part of rolling 2 hunters means that you can take advantage of Teamwork feats inbetween them. If the first hunter's pet also takes some teamwork feats the multiple pets and the second hunter can work together while the first hunter does ranged damage. Heck, you could probably take mostly Teamwork related feats and do well with them. Enfilading Fire gives your halfling some extra attack roll without anyone else needing to do anything as long the other hunter the pets are flanking your foe, Pack Attack could allow for some neat re-positioning but it probably is not worth a feat. Paired Opportunists would give you more attacks of opportunity, even if it would not stack with Outflank's free AoO. Seize the Moment would allow you even more AoOs, and would grant you two AoOs with Outflank whenever either you or your ally crits.
Teamwork feats are a bit silly if you have multiple characters working together to make them work, even better if those characters have animal companions to make them work at an even higher level of efficiency.
I couldn't tell you how exactly to build them, but Outflank, Pack Flanking, and Seize the Moment are all incredible. Paired Opportunists is good, Precise Strike is decent, and Enfilading Fire is good if it only needs to be on your halfling (which I think it does, however it does require a singular teamwork feat to be chosen as compensation).
At least stack the first three and some extra AoOs and some crit chance on your pets since the amount of damage you can do to people is a bit silly.
How will "Pack Flanking" help when both Hunters intend to be as far away from the target as they can? Seems we would need to be up close and personal to activate it.
I imagine we could make it work if we stood directly behind our pet(s) in combat.
Ooh, boo. Can't even use a Packmaster. Disappointing.
I would recommend you both go melee to get the maximum use out of your teamwork feats. 4 people rocking the same teamwork feats is going to be much more efficient.
For Teamwork feats I like:
Outflank
Precise Strike
You also may want to consider one of you going Inquisitor (Sacred Huntsman). It basically an Inquisitor/hunter thats really cool, and will give you'll a little variety.
For the human just go strength based, don't need a lot of wisdom(13 will do but push higher if you can) and dump charisma. Feats are pretty flexible.
For the halfling go Dex based, still don't need a lot of wisdom, and dump charisma. Go weapon finesse - Dervish Dance.
Remember the pets get skirmisher tricks, which is somewhat ambiguous on how they work(so expect table variation), but use your extra tricks to pick those up so you have at least one. I like the entangle one, but there are other good ones.
Edit: Oh, missed both ranged. I still think for synergy sake your better off going melee, but for ranged you don't have alot to work with in the teamwork department:
Target of Opportunity
Enfilading Fire
Those are really the only two I can find.
Your feats are:
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot (you'll have a rough time until getting this at 2nd)
Rapid Shot
Deadly Aim
Being 3/4 BAB probably Weapon Focus.
Clustered Shots
Many Shots (if using a bow)
The slinger can take Arc Slinger.
If you have a trait open grab lightbringer and then pick up arcane strike.
For the halfling you can use the slingstaff, but there is an alternate racial trait you need to reload as a free action which is mandatory. I think its out of halflings of golarion.
So My halfling would be:
Halfling - (Alternate racial trait to reload sling as free action)
S. 14 (12)
D. 16 (18)
C. 12
I. 12
W. 14
C. 7 (9)
Trait
Light bring (arcane sla)
1) Point Blank Shot
2) Precise Shot
3) Arcane Strike
5) Rapid Shot
7) Combat Trick: Clustered Shots
9) Arc Slinger
11)Weapon Fcous: Sling staff or deadly aim
Human drops Arc Slinger and adds in Many Shot
We were really trying to play out ranged Hunters rather than melee ones. I understand that the teamwork feats are built more with melee in mind but we are trying to try something a bit different, and that we will enjoy more.
Thanks for the posts so far@!
I like using the Tactics feats to flank my target from melee as a Hunter, but I also like going Half-Elf or Human so I can have Net Proficiency. Nets and flanking REALLY ruins the day of whatever you are fighting.
If you are going for Ranged, I would honestly just suggest playing Rangers with Boon Companion, but if you really want to go for Ranged then you are just not going to make much use out of your teamwork feats. There are two that will help you out however, Target of Opportunity and Enfilading Fire. Sadly you will not get Target of Opportunity until you get to level 8, still it would be something worth taking as soon as you can.
Target of Oppertunity grants you a free ranged attack whenever an ally makes a ranged attack. That way your two hunters can work in concert with one another. Enfilading Fire would allow your two hunters to use their pets to flank a target and then get a +2 to hit against it.
But those are your only two good teamwork feat options.
We were really trying to play out ranged Hunters rather than melee ones. I understand that the teamwork feats are built more with melee in mind but we are trying to try something a bit different, and that we will enjoy more.
Thanks for the posts so far@!
Sorry, edited my post above! I just stated a halfling slinger so it should be pretty solid.
I need to look into the Net Proficiency. Thanks!
I edited my post Krell, Nets are not the best ranged weapons and are probably not worth the feats if you are not planning on being in "melee" or just about melee range anyway. I only take them with Quickdraw or net adept and Two Weapon fighting.
Nets are scary against foes you can hit them with, since they just utterly cripple something's ability to do much of anything.
From Range, take advantage of weapons you can get your STR bonus on and use Animal Focus to increase STR or DEX so you can deal more damage or hit more reliably with it. Having an even strong Composite Longbow never hurt anyone.
OK ShroudedInLight, I did a little research on the melee Hunter and am intrigued with what it might take for me to start using nets. Any tips on building a melee Hunter with blades and a net?
Well, it depends on how heavily you want to invest in being good with nets. Basically, the absolute minimum you need is Quickdraw if you just want to dump one feat so you can throw a net and draw a real weapon to hit them the next turn. The net has a 10ft reach so it can be useful early game if you plan on being a switch hitter anyway (I use nets on my Ranger early levels).
You see even without Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Net) you only take a -4 to hit, and you are throwing against touch AC. Touch AC is so much easier to hit than full or FF, so even with the non-proficiency it isn't that hard to snare people early game.
However, you'll find that doesn't work so well as you progress. Using a standard action to throw a net is kind of wasted the further you get into a campaign when you could just hit them, especially since you take a second -4 to hit with an unfolded net.
If you are willing to invest a little more though, say Exotic Weapon Proficiency, Net Adept, and Two Weapon Fighting: You can pull some neat things off. Namely, that Net adept eliminates the penalty for using unfolded nets and causes them to be treated as 10 foot, one handed, melee weapon with reach instead of as a ranged weapon. This allows you to use your Strength to determine attack rolls instead of Dex. Now the Net is still a reach weapon which cannot be used when adjacent to your opponent, however some GMs will allow you to use your net and still make an attack in the same round. Alternatively, make use of the same round you use your net to throw a knife or other such weapon with Two Weapon Fighting.
Most will not, which means you will need to get Net and Trident and Close Quarter's Thrower (which will require Weapon Focus in Nets), which will then allow you to make a ranged attack with the net and still swing without provoking an attack of Opportunity from point blank range. Obviously, that is really heavy feat investment. Especially if you decide you also want Quickdraw so you can drop the Net and draw a second blade.
If you do not want to invest that heavily in Nets (Though I think the hunter can do it best out of any class thanks to have the animal companion and the teamwork feats to Flank/Spank them), my suggestion is to take Quick Draw, Net Proficiency, and Net Adept before grabbing Power Attack or whatever other feats you care to use. This allows you to throw a net, and then swap straight into Beating the tar out of something with a Greatsword.
This is my Ranger and Cavalier set up. Treating Nets as a one handed weapon with reach means that a Cavalier can net and then swap over to a lance to do some absurd charge damage to something that physically cannot escape him. It works best against singular trouble some opponents, like Mages, difficult to hit creatures, and etc. For a Ranger, Nets are a perfect addition to the normal Switch-Hit formula since you shoot for a while, swap to a net, and then Greatsword the thing in the net till it's dead. A net is especially helpful when you have multiple attacks or are low level and power attacking, since it completely negates the AC cost of doing so.
Also, any mages will love you for ripping 4 dex off their Reflex save with a net. Heck, it makes combat maneuvers easier and since your animals have free feat slots they can specialize in Trip or other abilities which you can pair to work with. Vicious Stomp on a few people with a netter and a tripper means things just die.
The main weakness of nets is that their debuff is static (never gets better or worse, despite being really good) and that they deal no inherant damage NOR do they reduce an enemies strength. If you netted them, they can try to walk up to you and gut you since you will be in range (unless you pair it with ride-by attack, or other sneaky tricks).
Basically, using a net will cement you less as a damage dealer than you might otherwise be, even just due to feat reduction. Using them fully is incredibly feat prohibitive, but understanding how to splash them into a build can make certain characters much better.
However, their debuff is huge and allows for easy flanking. With a companion (or two) taking advantage of the netted enemy and using those flanking teamwork feats you can make up your lost damage easily...especially with a Keen Kukri.
I would not recommend doing it for both Hunters since you are sacrificing damage now for the debuff, but having one hunter be a net user while the other was...say a switch hitter, an Archer, or even just a two handed hitter? Would probably work out well for you with those companions and the right positioning.