Goblin Squad Member
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Clerics are lethal... to our own reputation. Not knowing whether something will die with the previous attack, and wanting to push it through as soon as possible, I find myself mashing my attack button. Normally not a problem. Unless a cleric is healing me. The enemy mob drops, the cleric heals me - triggering auto-target - the cleric eats my final attack or two before I realize what has happened! "Why is electric brand firing behind m.... oh. Sorry about that!"
That would be fixed if the abilities went of SOMEWHERE near where you pressed them. And if all of your attack queue was cleared if you lost or changed your target.
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Goblin Squad Member
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But even in Pathfinder they are regarded as more beautiful than most other races at least in the fluff, the artwork sometimes makes me wonder. But in general, yeah elves should be pretty.
Like these Link look-a-likes from Zelda?
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Alpha 8 is the first time I’ve played, so I don’t have previous releases to use as a comparison. But after playing, most of my reactions have been frustration and sadness.
I agree with a lot of what Pyronous Rath has said about combat and targeting. I came from DDO, and I understand that PFO is a different style. I also played Ultima Online. Off the top of my head I can’t remember the controls or how combat worked, but I do remember that I didn’t have problems. With PFO I’m really struggling.
Goes something like this TAB 11111111111 TAB 1 TAB TAB ^%$@ SH&^ 1111 222 !@#$# RAGE QUIT.
I said almost the exact thing to my husband the other night when we were playing, minus the rage quit. I feel more like I’ll have to memorize a string of keys and numbers in order to be effective. I’m also struggling with targeting and have almost attacked my husband several times. Maybe I just need more practice, and I’m still willing to try. But I’m not naturally picking up on this style and at the risk of sounding pathetic, I feel like a total failure as a player and a Cleric and no one will ever want to play with me because I suck. I’m not mad about it. I’m just plain sad because I was excited about the game.
Am I missing something or is it hard for clerics to kill things with their spells? My husband and I have been playing with a couple friends. Both are playing wizards and one of our friends just runs around kiting everything, while I watch my poor husband, a fighter, try to chase the monsters and get in a couple of swings. I try to cast a few spells to get some kills but I can only get in one or two spells before the wizard kills the monster. I feel like I’ll never get Divine achievements. Kiting everything just isn’t fun for me, and I don’t see myself playing if this remains effective.
I’m very grateful for the user guides so many people have put together. Without them I think I’d be worse off. And while all the info is helpful, it’s also frustrating. I’d like to be able to log in, play the game, and understand my character within the game, without having to rely on tons of spreadsheets. Even after reading lots of posts and guides, I’m still unsure of some mechanics, like keywords. I understand you need them to be more effective, but what do they actually DO? If acolyte’s battle focus tier 1 has the keyword divine and bless 1 has the keyword divine, what does that do in the game? Also do the keywords themselves mean anything? I'm not the type of person who is satisfied if someone tells me wear this armor and take this feat, then you'll be awesome. I want to understand why.
Finally, how do people know things like each Orison grants .036 Wisdom? Is this in a tooltip that I'm missing or did someone figure this out through trial and error?
On a positive note, I do like the potential for options in the game. I think it will really let you customize your character, and that’s something I enjoy. The towns and buildings look really cool, and I'm looking forward to seeing active taverns.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I try to cast a few spells to get some kills but I can only get in one or two spells before the wizard kills the monster. I feel like I’ll never get Divine achievements. Kiting everything just isn’t fun for me, and I don’t see myself playing if this remains effective.
Clerics seem to be designed in PFO to be just secondary buffy healers rather than effective fighting characters.
Nevertheless you can be effective as a cleric. Get heavy armor and slot crusader and the protection Domain, swing a longsword with whirlwind (slot some crit feats) and equip the battle focus as your second weapon and learn the melee spell "touch of darkness". Do not use whirlwind if any players are near you as you will lose rep.
Keywords - one rule in early Alpha - if you have basic weapons/wands/staff they only have ONE keyword so taking spells or attacks above level one is pointless until you get advanced weapons.
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Thank you for the feedback, Edam Neadenil. Normally I'm totally okay playing a supportive-buff-healer type cleric. But right now it seems like the only way to get Divine achievements is by killing monsters.
Also, regarding keywords, I get that basic items only have one keyword, but I'm still unsure of what they do mechanically.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Thank you for the feedback, Edam Neadenil. Normally I'm totally okay playing a supportive-buff-healer type cleric. But right now it seems like the only way to get Divine achievements is by killing monsters.
Touch of Darkness is reasonably effective in melee.
It is negative energy though so pointless against skeletons (at least it does not heal them).
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Goblin Squad Member
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The keyword itself doesn't matter. They could be labelled A through Z, and they would work the same. It would be neat if Sharp had a different mechanical effect than Dense, but right now they act the same.
People know about the 0.036 Wisdom per Orison because Goblinworks has provided a lot of their raw spreadsheets to the player community. Some people enjoy digging through the data and pulling out cool trivia, others have refined the raw data into useful charts. I think most players avoid those raw data dumps like the plague, but it's cool that Goblinworks is willing to share so much of the underpinnings of the game.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Bleeding Touch primary, plus Touch of Darkness secondary, does a fine job in melee. Add in some Icicle, Doom, Holy Lance, and Lightning Arc from range, and you're watching things fall down, even when solo.
Bleeding Touch works great if you have some armor, and can wait while the enemy bleeds out. Layer it up on them, and they drop pretty reliably.
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Goblin Squad Member
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My dwarf looks very much like a dwarf ought to look. The elves aren't beautiful, but mine looks acceptably elven.
Clerics are certainly underpowered. I think offensively they do better using melee skills once the mob is in range. What kills the cleric is the long range bow users: at range even Holy Lance is simply outclassed, even by the shortbow of a goblin scout.
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Goblin Squad Member
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How do the dwarves look? Anyone have a screenshot they can post somewhere?
Like bearded fat 2 year olds with stumpy legs and big heads and bodies ... as you would expect a dwarf to look :D
My dwarf looks very much like a dwarf ought to look. The elves aren't beautiful, but mine looks acceptably elven.
Clerics are certainly underpowered. I think offensively they do better using melee skills once the mob is in range. What kills the cleric is the long range bow users: at range even Holy Lance is simply outclassed, even by the shortbow of a goblin scout.
In Alpha 7 I was able to build a very effective plate armor cleric who self buffed and self healed and used shield charge and longsword whirlwind (with a crit reactive that caused bleeding) to very good effect.
In Alpha 8 after 20 hours play and no armor drops I gave up leveling cleric completely and have concentrated on crafting.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I get the sense that the recent round of Alphas forgot it was still an Alpha. I suppose that is understandable, but come on folks.
I think Alpha 8 is great and Thornkeep is amazing for a lowish budget game just in Alpha.
However human nature is to talk about issues you are struggling with. You get a bunch of mothers together and the talk is about nappy rash.
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Goblin Squad Member
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He's kidding. My dwarf looks like he's been mining in the Iron Hills. Great white hair, magnificent white beard, forearms like tree trunks, sturdy legs that can bear a load, and a fashionable beer gut that makes the ladies swoon. I think I'm even beginning to sound Scottish.
Yeah but no hair on the forearms. Maybe he's been mining on Miami Beach...
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I get the sense that the recent round of Alphas forgot it was still an Alpha. I suppose that is understandable, but come on folks.
It's also now 1 week from the most-recent projected date to start EE, and, honestly, this game is no where ready to be played beyond occasional screwing around with testing. I think everyone but a few very-hardcore-fans of the game know that. I'm a HUGE fan of the design goals, but I don't see the game anywhere near a state where I or my friends would be interested in getting involved yet.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I get the sense that the recent round of Alphas forgot it was still an Alpha. I suppose that is understandable, but come on folks.It's also now 1 week from the most-recent projected date to start EE, and, honestly, this game is no where ready to be played beyond occasional screwing around with testing. I think everyone but a few very-hardcore-fans of the game know that. I'm a HUGE fan of the design goals, but I don't see the game anywhere near a state where I or my friends would be interested in getting involved yet.
Agreed.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I get the sense that the recent round of Alphas forgot it was still an Alpha. I suppose that is understandable, but come on folks.It's also now 1 week from the most-recent projected date to start EE, and, honestly, this game is no where ready to be played beyond occasional screwing around with testing. I think everyone but a few very-hardcore-fans of the game know that. I'm a HUGE fan of the design goals, but I don't see the game anywhere near a state where I or my friends would be interested in getting involved yet.
What do you imagine EE is? EE isn't 'release', it is beta. There are many months to go before OE. Your friends should not be investing their time in EE unless you and they want to help with a game still under construction.
Go relax: The game will be released when it is ready. If you want to help between now and then , great! You have a good head on your shoulders. But if you don't, that's great too.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I've started to think of MVP (for Early Enrollment) as us having a game that's playable, just not playable well :-). By that definition, we're reasonably close.
It'll be difficult, though, to wait through the two-week cycle for fixes when we find stuff broken. I'm now guessing we may see surges of playing: a bunch of folks come in to see the changes, then some or many leave until the next patch notes get published, leaving the core continuing onward regardless.
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I think playable starts with banking, companies, the ability to physically loot. The current iteration is so far from the "core systems ready and we'll add the conquest system as EE progresses" that this game isn't Beta. It's still very much Alpha. I consider beta/EE to be core-systems in place, and I don't at all think that's what PFO has currently.
I agree with Leithlen on this. But Ryan has to balance a different sort of promise: The promise to get Month 1 enrolees in the game and cashing in on their $100 investment.
If they decide they need to delay this more, I am fine with that. But I think they need to open Alpha up to Month 1 EE players so they know why it is they have been waiting extra long.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It is alpha. We have one more weekend of it for sure. If they need more time we'll see an announcement to that effect. My understanding is that the bank and auction house are coming up.
I'd like to add that the rapidity of development has been phenomenal so far.
I would agree fully with that Sspitfire, but with how many Alpha invites are being floated around, I'd be surprised if any EE subscriber isn't already in the Alpha program.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would agree fully with that Sspitfire, but with how many Alpha invites are being floated around, I'd be surprised if any EE subscriber isn't already in the Alpha program.
Lots aren't, including at least 12 of Elkhaven's 22 members. The paizo boards are a micro-set of the thousands of EE enrollees, and not a representative subset, either.
Fair enough. Reverting back to Sppitfire's original statement then of delaying and letting all EE into Alpha. I think that's a much better option than pretending to be in Beta even though not all of the core systems are done yet.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Pathfinder elves are not Tolkien elves; they aren't the perfect race from which lesser races developed.
Pathfinder elves are literally from a different planet. They should look alien because they are literally aliens, and I think making their proportions slightly off is a great way to make that happen.
They are still supposed to be beautiful and graceful. Their description and racial bonuses are evidence enough of that.
Still though, early Alpha, give it some time. There's no need to be insulting about it (not you Decius, your a champ ;))
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Goblin Squad Member
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Pathfinder elves are not Tolkien elves; they aren't the perfect race from which lesser races developed.
Pathfinder elves are literally from a different planet. They should look alien because they are literally aliens, and I think making their proportions slightly off is a great way to make that happen.
They are still supposed to be beautiful and graceful. Their description and racial bonuses are evidence enough of that.
Still though, early Alpha, give it some time. There's no need to be insulting about it (not you Decius, your a champ ;))
Traditionally don't they prance around tree stumps reciting poetry in ancient gaelic or something ?
I prefer these ZELDA ELVES that I posted earlier.
Maybe we could have Link look-a-likes :D