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This a wizard-like class that has more intuition, and less study. He is light on actual spell casting, and heavier on supernatural abilities. He possesses a knack for crafting and enhancing equipment, can develop some druid-like aspects, and learns special uses for regular skills.
This is a class building experiment. Its a little weird, I know. I have the little experience homebrewing spell casters, and I wanted to try a 4-level caster that did not focus on melee. I am prepared to rebuild into a 6-level caster if that seems to be the only way to salvage it.
The Hedge Mastery supernatural ability appears to be missing its text. I'm not sure if it got cut off in your document or if my phone is glitching the PDF view.
It doesn't exist yet.
The concept of a down-to-earth, rural community wizard appeals to me. It is hard to tell though which power level you aim for with this class, so I don't feel very comfortable commenting on balance. I'd probably give it a six-level spell casting progression, also d8 HD and 3/4 BAB. A few observations:
The imbue mechanic is nice and simple. Enhancement bonus to saves seems odd (you probably wanted it to stack with resistance bonuses?).
Have you considered giving this class its own spell list? Adding some nature-related and curative spells to the wizard list and removing some of the more destructive spells could work, though one would have to be careful not to blur the border to druidic traditions. Obviously, you didn't want to make wisdom the primary casting stat - why is that?
Hedge Talents:
Beast Guide: Maybe replace Ride with Handle Animal?
Companion: I would suggest effective druid/wizard level -3.
Imbue: Allowing imbue as an immediate action offers some strange possibilities (giving a con bonus for emergency healing, enhancing a weapon to make an attack hit).
Sensitive: This is very odd. Why Sense Motive? Why does a hedge wizard possess these abilities? To help him chase runaway goats? ;)
Tinker: I'd rather like to see an option for accelerated crafting (mundane or magical).
Some of these talents are too specific, like sighted tracker. Also an instructive/inspirational talent would be nice.
All in all, your hedge mage still strikes me as an improved NPC-class. What does he have to contribute when the adventure is not about growing turnips?
I like the premise of the class. Making a non-martial 4-level spellcaster is a lofty goal. I agree that this feels like a glorified NPC class. Aside from using subtle magic as an immediate action every round, the class doesn't have very much to do during a fight. They don't get spellcasting until 4th level and don't get Hedge Talents until 2nd level. Imbue is interesting, but better done outside of combat. Part of what makes this feel like an NPC class is that the hedge mage itself does not benefit well from his own class features. While I always welcome class features that encourage teamwork, even players that like playing support want something to do other than cast buffs and heal. At the very least, give them a d8 HD and 3/4 BAB, especially when they need to get within 10 feet of an enemy to use subtle magic offensively.
Subtle magic is a very powerful ability, and it has many uses per day. I feel like most of the power of this class rests in this ability, which I don't think is a good thing. It also should allow a saving throw. Even though it's fairly powerful, it feels rather "meh" to me. If I made this class, I would make subtle magic into prestidigitation on steroids, giving a list of possible useful effects like briefly talking to an animal, performing a ranged dirty trick, or doing minor telekinesis. Hedge Talents could then expand on these options, allowing the hedge mage to specialize.
To nitpick, the class features should be ordered by level, then alphabetically. You shouldn't italicize the names of hedge talents in text, because they aren't spells, magic items, or magic weapon/armor properties. I also don't see a column for cantrips on the class's table. Other than that, it looks fairly well written and publishable.
AMANUENSIS
The Imbue bonuses to saves is supposed to resistance. Will change it.
The wizard's spell list being identical to the wizard's is mostly being afraid of tackling the challenge to making a spell list, and is partially due to the class being a weak wizarrd. The casting stat is intelligence to enforce that it is spellbook class, and and wisdom is for "subtle" magic uses.
Beast guide: One of the things I began with is "magical" uses of mundane skills, and I tried to come up with a talent per class skill. Handle animal became beast empathy, ride became beast guide. Should I eliminate ride, and use handle animal for both?
Companion: I can do that.
Imbue: I assume you mean swift imbue. That came down to having a way to speed up actions. I can't see it coming up a lot - having MW items around that he crafted himeself - or having uses for imbuing that quickly. Is it a problem, or just strange?
Sensitive: again, a talent per class skill. And it would be more useful for ghosts than goats, or for hidden creatures.
Tinker: this was one of the last talents. i was struuggling with a craft-based ability. I will think about your suggestion.
Instructive/Inspirational: this is another i have been fiddling with. Either a talent where the hedge mage supervises a group of people or where he councels a single person. Do you have any ideas?
On being an NPC: well that where I'm starting from. Its meant to be a more passive class. Like I said in the first post, its an experiment. Would 6-level casting help, or would that still fall short?
CYRAD
Core bonuses: I began this with 3/4 BAB and later lowed to 1/2. You feel I was wrong to do so?
Subtle Magic: yes, it is powerful, though it doesn't give a player a higher chnace of rolling a higher number, or a monster of rolling a higher one - just a second chance. A hedge mage who uses the re-rolls all day long is not using it to improve equipment or to use hedge talents. They all come from the same pool. Its a bit ambiguous. Should the pool and the re-roll be separated?
On being prestidigitaion on steroids: this is very close to a suggestion i received early on, long before i posted it. Could you provide a more specific example of how I might do this?
Regarding italicized hedge talents: I beleive the method i used was the method used for the original rogue talents and rage powers. Perhaps it is outdated now.
On not listing the number of 0-level spells: that was one of my very last changes before posting this! Look at the class feature. The hedge mage starts with three and end up with like 13. It was supposed to end up at 10, so I need to fix that. I was removing stuff to possibly make room for 6-level casting, if that makes sense.
On looking publishable: well thats what I strive for. If it gets someone to look more closely (like you) then so much the better. If it gets someone to not look and assume its fine, then we have problems.
For beast guide alone, ride makes perfectly sense. However, the ranged version feels more like handle animal.
As a player, I would definitely appreciate the options swift imbue has to offer. However, I agree with Cyrad that imbue should be more an out-of-combat ability (Though I generally like the idea that imbue works better with items the hedge mage has crafted himself).
If sensitive is supposed to help detecting supernatural creatures like undead or fey, maybe survival would be a more fitting skill (following ley lines, etc.)?
For an instructional power, let's see: Following your design principles, it should focus on (and be limited to) the hedge mage's class skills. It is somewhat tricky, since you can already give out competence and luck bonuses to others via imbue. An improved version of aid another for class skills would be an easy (although not very original) solution. The more I think about it, I believe this class already has enough support options.
Giving the hedge wizard a better spell casting progression would certainly help to make this a more active class, which, to echo Cyrad, seems to be the biggest problem.
Imbue, in combat vs out of combat
The smart choice would be to take care of it out of combat, just as buff spells that last minutes or hours are best cast out of combat. However, a spell caster is still allowed to cast them after initiative is rolled. Would it serve the class if I reduced the number of casting time options from three to two?
Sense motive seems like the right choice to me. It is used to determine what people are thinking, more or less. I consider the the sensitive ability to be a magical version of that.
The attempt I made at an instructional power were not based off a skill. The gist of it was that large groups of people, such as a community, would all gain the imbue bonus to any check made when they all worked towards the same purpose, such as building a barn, harvesting the crops, looking for a lost child, etc. However, you are right that it is an unnecessary option. It was more for flavor than anything else.
6-level casting might be in the wings. I'm going to wait a bit before making that change through.
The Adept has a 5 level spell progression. Would that work for you?
I uploaded the newest version
ElementalXX
An unlimited blast doesn't fit with what I have in mind for the class, although there is the Surge hedge talent that ~sort of~ simulate eldritch blast. I'm assuming by 1/2 bab you mean 3/4 bab? Again, its not the direction I would like to go.
scary harpy
Now that you mention it, the adept is a great comparison, in thats its a grass roots spell caster. I never noticed it's five level casting before. I looked at it, thought it over, and even that casting increase is very small boost over 4-level casting. I have changed the casting to 6-level.
I'm starting on a spell list - one of my least favorite things to do. Can anyone offer advice concerning altering a spell's level? I'm looking at lowering the level of a fpue spells and wondering when it is a bad idea.
In my opinion, altering a spell's level often defeats the purpose of having a reduced spell casting progression. Also, it opens a whole can of worms when it comes to spell trigger/spell completion items (for example with the annoying summoner getting haste as a 2nd-level spell). The aim of making a new spell list should be the creation of a unique casting tradition (like the bard, who blends enchantment and illusion magic with healing spells).
When you reduce a spell's level, it should be one that is core to your class concept. Working with an existing spell list should help (the bard is actually a good example). In general, you shouldn't give out spells at an earlier class level than other classes. On a six level spell casting progression, the 2nd-level spells raise the biggest issue - if you take a 3rd-level spell from another list and make it a 2nd-level spell, the hedge mage will get it one level earlier than other classes.
On the other hand, adding a spell that is restricted to a class with a four level spell casting progression should raise the spell level accordingly.
Sensitive- maybe make it a perception skill and give it a bonus to detecting undead, invisible, fey, etc.
Sensitive- maybe make it a perception skill and give it a bonus to detecting undead, invisible, fey, etc.
The hedge mage can be the great equalizer to hidden opponents.
In my opinion, altering a spell's level often defeats the purpose of having a reduced spell casting progression. Also, it opens a whole can of worms when it comes to spell trigger/spell completion items (for example with the annoying summoner getting haste as a 2nd-level spell). The aim of making a new spell list should be the creation of a unique casting tradition (like the bard, who blends enchantment and illusion magic with healing spells).
Agreed.
Look to the Bard and the Magus as guides; they are 6 level spell progressions also.
I think I will leave spell levels alone then. There are no spells I've come across yet that are so core to the class that I need to lower them. Well, I think I will lower magic vestment to 2ns level. What about raising a spell level? I want to steer clear of blasting spells for thematic reasons. If I raised the level of a spell like maguic missle, would that more or less make it not worth bothering with?
Core bonuses: I began this with 3/4 BAB and later lowed to 1/2. You feel I was wrong to do so?
I feel the class needs 6-level casting or 3/4 BAB so they don't run out of things to do. I suggest 3/4 BAB simply because they don't really benefit from imbue, but 6-level casting might be a better idea since this is supposed to be primarily a spellcaster.
Subtle Magic: yes, it is powerful, though it doesn't give a player a higher chnace of rolling a higher number, or a monster of rolling a higher one - just a second chance. A hedge mage who uses the re-rolls all day long is not using it to improve equipment or to use hedge talents. They all come from the same pool. Its a bit ambiguous. Should the pool and the re-roll be separated?
It actually does give you a better chance of rolling higher, assuming an ally rolls low or an enemy rolls high. I mean that an amount of uses equal to Wisdom bonus plus twice your level is a lot of uses.
On a random note, with a feature like subtle magic that serves as a resource pool while also having an innate use, I usually like it when the ability's uses serve as the pool rather than making up an abstract point system. In other words, give subtle magic uses per day and have other abilities expend uses of it. This way, the abilities read "expend a use of subtle magic" rather than "spend 1 point from his subtle magic pool." The former flows more naturally and avoids meta abstractions that can hinder immersion.
On being prestidigitaion on steroids: this is very close to a suggestion i received early on, long before i posted it. Could you provide a more specific example of how I might do this?
I'm thinking something like this:
At 1st level, a hedge mage's instinctive grasp on magic allows him to subtly influence the world around him through supernatural means. As a standard action, he can invoke one of the following effects. If an effect allows a save, the DC is equal to 10 + 1/2 the hedge mage's level + his Wisdom modifier. In addition, a hedge mage receives a +5 bonus to Stealth and Sense Motive checks made to avoid detection as the origin of the subtle magic effects. A hedge mage can use this a number of times per day equal to his Wisdom bonus plus his level.
- Mischief: A hedge mage performs a dirty trick combat maneuver on a creature within 30 feet. His CMB is equal to his hedge mage level plus his Wisdom bonus. This does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the creature.
- Obstruction: A hedge mage can soil or clutter the ground to make it difficult for creatures to pass through it, causing 10-square-feet per level within 90 feet of the hedge mage to become within 30 feet for a number of rounds equal to 3 + the hedge mage's Wisdom modifier.
- Distracting Alteration: A hedge mage can cause a harmless yet distracting transformation to an unattended item within 30 feet. Though this does not alter the object's function, enemies adjacent to the object must succeed on a Will save or become fascinated by the item for a number of rounds equal to 3 plus the hedge mage's level. This is a mind-affecting effect.
- Animal Whisper: A hedge mage can speak a single message to an animal and receive a brief reply, if the animal chooses to respond. Both the message and the reply must consist of 25 words or less.
- Disappearing Item: A hedge mage can cause an unattended item within 30 feet to turn invisible for a number of rounds equal to 3 plus his Wisdom modifier.
Regarding italicized hedge talents: I beleive the method i used was the method used for the original rogue talents and rage powers. Perhaps it is outdated now.
Maybe that was a 3.5e thing? I think PF nixed it for the sake of simplicity and consistency. Nothing is italicized unless it's a spell or magic item.
On looking publishable: well thats what I strive for. If it gets someone to look more closely (like you) then so much the better. If it gets someone to not look and assume its fine, then we have problems.
I'm a big stickler for this sort of stuff. I personally go through great pains to make my work look as professional as possible. When anyone with a word processor can make homebrew material, I think it really stands out when someone takes the craft seriously enough to make their work look worthy enough for publishing.
I'm starting on a spell list - one of my least favorite things to do. Can anyone offer advice concerning altering a spell's level? I'm looking at lowering the level of a fpue spells and wondering when it is a bad idea.
I agree with Amanuensis. Lowering spell level goes against the entire point of only having 6 spell levels. Generally, you should never lower the spell level of a benchmark spell, especially if that would allow them to cast the spell earlier than a wizard or cleric. It's okay for other spells if it strongly fits the theme of the class. The bard is an excellent example of this. The summoner is a really bad example as they get wizard staples like dimension door, haste, and fly early. Haste and fly are particularly awful because the summoner, a class that has absolutely nothing to do with making people do superhuman things, can get these spells at 4th level while a wizard gets them at 5th.
Cyrad, thank you for taking such a close look.
subtle magic
It is a lot of uses, or at least it is if the hedge mage only forces re-rolls all day. The uses of subtle magic are better served if they are used to enhance equipment - which costs a point per hour - and on hedge talents. Obviously, I have my personal perspective on this. Am I way off base here?
prestidigitation on steroids
That is a really cool way to do subtle magic. I like it. However, I feel like I would need to rework a lot of what I have done to fit it in.
Since these powers you wrote up are somewhere between cantrips and 1st level spells, it would add some redundancy to the spell casting. The other thing I am thinking is that some of those would make great hedge talents. In addition to the basic subtle magic re-roll - representing an ability to affect outcomes before he has a chance to even realize it - I wanted the hedge mage to have access to a bunch of cantrips, representing his mastery of the most minor of magic. Maybe I will drop in an ability that allows him to swap out cantrips during the day.
on the harry potter reference
sound like you have a pretty accurate idea of my vision here, but I must clarify that the world of HP never crossed my mind when making this!
italicized entries
I'm looking at my pathfinder core rulebook right now, and italics are used for rage powers, bardic performances, rogue talents, and others. My impression has been that italics are uses for sub-headings under a bold-faced entry, such as a class feature.
spell levels
I lowered the spell level of greater magic weapon and magic vestment, since enhancing equipment is a core ability.
EDIT:
I included a cure spell at each of the 6 spell levels. Good? Bad? I also made one other strange choice to include an undead related spell at each spell level. I know its odd, considering the basic flavor of the class, but I thought it could be a fun niche capability. Is this too out of place?
Is anyone familiar with the Hedge Wizard from Mongoose's Heroes of Fantasy?
That class has a similar feel.
Thats not surprising. A name has a lot to do the feel.
USES OF SUBTLE MAGIC
I don't think you're off base here. Mathematically and in terms of power, I think the current iteration of subtle magic with Wis mod + 2 times per level per day works out. However, if I have a choice between giving more impact to a class feature or letting the class use it more often, I typically lean more towards making the class feature better. This makes the class feature more fun. Would barbarian rage be as cool if it was weaker, but the barbarian could use it more often? Not really, and it would make the barbarian feel weaker overall. While subtle magic's reroll mechanic and imbue magic are definitely not weak abilities, they feel very passive. Using rerolls every other round will get boring. Imbue is kind of "fire and forget" because it lasts a long time, and the hedge mage does not directly benefit from it. So this kind of hurts the cool factor of the class.
Also, using subtle magic for imbue isn't much of a hindrance because it lasts for an hour. Most critical parts of an adventuring day only last an hour. I can see that a hedge mage will only maybe imbuing two items of his party anyway. Part of what makes greater magic weapon and heroism such great spells is that they pretty much last an entire adventuring day.
IMBUE
I think you should give the spell warrior skald archetype a look. It has an ability to give enhancement bonuses to allied weapons. It might give you ideas.
On a personal note, I have thematic issues with the imbue class feature. While I love the magus's arcane pool, enchanting magic armor and weapons doesn't strike me as a hedge mage thing. When I think of a hedge mage, I don't think of someone saying "here, let me make that sword magical for you," enchanting magic items like an artificer. I think more someone that hands an ally an enchanted pebble or a rabbit's foot and says "It's dangerous to go alone. Take this for good luck."
PRESTIDIGITATION ON STEROIDS
Aye, changing subtle magic into this would require re-evaluation of the entire class. When designing classes or archetypes, I usually take the attitude of focusing on developing two fun and impactful primary class features that naturally scale with level and then revolving the rest of the class around them or filling out the class as necessary. I found that if the main class features are well designed and fun enough, the rest of the class easily falls into place.
Yes, you're sharp to see they're between the power of a cantrip and 1st level spell. I did debate the power level as I didn't want to merely mimic spells. I did so because this version of subtle magic has many versatile possibilities. In addition, I noticed this type of class ability usually start less powerful than a 1st level spell and then gradually become more powerful as the class levels up. Witch hexes work like this. However, I agree the power level should be tweaked, especially with respect to the other class features.
Regardless, one goal with this subtle magic version was to allow the class to specialize or empower the class feature through hedge talents and feats. A talent could either greatly enhance one of the uses of subtle magic or add more.
A cantrip-centered approach has its merits, but buffing cantrips in any significant way would essentially require rewriting them anyway. Most of the cantrips have one line descriptions anyway.
HARRY POTTER REFERENCE
Not accusing you of anything! I was just using an analogy.
ITALICIZED ENTRIES
Yes, sub-headings under a feature should be italicized, but not a class feature mentioned in text. For example, the companion hedge talent italicizes arcane bond and nature bond. Arcane bond and nature bond are class features, not magic spells or magic items. While it's okay to italicize "companion" in this entry because that's a subheading, you shouldn't italicize arcane bond and nature bond under this subheading's text.
SPELL LEVELS
I think those are pretty good choices for level reduction, especially considering they scale by every 4 caster levels and the spell has the effects of a 1st level with a longer duration at the minimum level. So getting it at 4th level won't cause any problems.
Subtle Magic
So, I have dropped the number of uses to 1 per level, plus Wis mod. Fewer points, but I think I have more or less increased the power of what the the uses are spent on. Also, the power level of the re-roll is more potent, because the re-roll can happen after the result is known.
Imbue
Previosuly, the hedge mage spent more or less points to determine how long the effect lasts, and the quality of the object determined the action type. This changed. The action type is now set at a standard action and the duration at 1 hour. This duration increases if the object masterwork or he crafted it himself.
Hedge Talents
To go along with fewer uses of subtle magic, the costs of these were changed. The improved versions of talents no longer cost additional points, and a few talents got a bump in power.
Harry Potter
I picked up on that. Its a good analogy. The other comparison I can draw is to the middle earth wizards when they are in their more subdued state. They talk to animals and make fireworks and study books. They also have a more fearsome state, which this class doesn't cover.
Italics
I think I understand now. I have changed references to class features to no italics, with capitals. Good catch. You should have seen the formating when I began this. It was worse!
The spell list looks good. You included some divine spells without taking away the feeling of an arcane caster.
By the way, my first thought was Alwyn the technomage from the Babylon 5 universe.
Also, I agree that your layout is very professional and it makes for an enjoyable reading.
Naming your class Hedge Mage is not going to help. I think Hedge Mage would make a great name NPC class ... and so will many others. I feel your arcane dabbler will be unfairly ignored.
Aren't most homebrew classes ignored? Its OK. If I changed the name, I wouldn't feel as happy with it.
The number of talents is really starting to swell, and I'm not sure if its for the best or the worse. I'm covering a number of fields of interest, but I know some of them are starting to stretch credibility. Any one want to weight in?
Hmm. I like it.
You have enough talents so that each hedge mage can pick a focus and build on it. It's got enough spells to sort of tailor to a role if you wish, probably to enhance the focus from the talents. Nothing in and of itself is overpowered and even in combination, I don't think it can do anything particularly problematic in game. And it is a pretty flavorful class.
I'd say it works for me.
I kept the spell list strictly to the CRB. Should it go beyond that?
I could change it to a minute per use, and the usefulness would suffer little, I think. But as it currently is, do you think that spending most or all of your subtle magic uses to keep some skill bonuses for the whole day would actually be an abuse? Surely there are better ways to spend them.
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Imbue:
there are two that modify skill checks. why is the 'worn' one twice as good as the 'tool' one? shouldn't that be the other way around, or at least equal?
Name:
i like Hedge Mage. but, i could see a Wu Jen or Geomancer or Ley Line Walker archetype coming out of this, by trading out the item creation feats/skill bonus and creating domains. lot of work though.
capstone:
maybe limited use doubling of Imbue? and/or use of Subtle Magic re-rolls is 2d20 take the worst/best (HM choice)? and/or gains the ability to create a single artifact?...
I wondered when you'd find your way through.
Imbue
I could actually live with dropping the 2X skill bonus altogether, and replacing it with something new. The thought process was that skill bonuses are easier to get than ability score boosts, and that most tools already have a +2. You don't have to be high level to get an item that grants +5 to all uses of a skill. Imbuing the tools came from the theme I have where the hedge mage likes to make objects. Most tools are hard to use in the heat of combat and/or only work for specific uses of a skill. Now that I think about, there could be easy abuses, such as if your GM is liberal with Masterwork Tools. These need some final tine-tuning.
Name
Those are three good ideas. I've only ever tried one archetype - ever - so I don't anticipate making three for a class that may never see the light of day. Maybe someday.
Capstone
You've given me an idea, which is to make a capstone allowing the HM to choose one of three choices (similar to alchemist). Crafting an artifact is definitely going to be one of them.
Sage speech suffers from the fact that a player can simply use 12 standard actions to keep the bonus up all day.
I would suggest that it be turned into a 1 minute/level resource with the appendage that the minutes need not be spent consecutively, but spent as a free action at a minimum of 1 min per use. I would even consider that duration be changed to rounds/level/day.
Sage Speech: As a standard action, the hedge mage can add his Wisdom modifier to all Bluff, Diplomacy, Handle Animal, and Intimidate skill checks he makes for one hour.
Hmm...
Subtle Magic (Su): A hedge mage's inherent understanding of magic allows him to influence the world around him. He can use this ability a number of times per day equal to his hedge mage level + his Wisdom modifier. These uses refresh once per day when the hedge mage prepares his spells. . . .
At level one, he'll probably have at least two uses all the way up to level 20 where he may have as many as 29 uses (20 levels + 18 wis + 5 from levels + 6 from a headband). Yes, he could have more from a feat or he could have a little more if spending on the +5 inherent bonus books so that could add up to six more uses, maybe one more if it's a +2 wisdom race. This class could focus on wisdom, needing only to get a 16 in intelligence to get all his spells.
Let's go ahead and look at the worst case scenario with a hedge mage with that 36 in wisdom at higher levels getting +13 for an hour at a time on important social skills like bluff and diplomacy, in addition to ranks and any charisma modifier they may have. That's a diplomacy of +36. It's not dominate monster. Or glibness. It's also roughly a 1/3 of his imbue pool to keep it up around 12 hours.
. . . A creature’s attitude cannot be shifted more than two steps up in this way, although the GM can override this rule in some situations. . . .
Unless they've invested in diplomacy in other ways, even having a huge bonus isn't magical. At mid levels, it would be a really nice trick, but at those levels the bonus is more in the vein of a +7 to upwards of +10. Investing this heavily in wisdom also means that you are not investing in charisma.
Like Ciaran Barnes, I don't think it's that bad compared to what other spell casters are doing. Truth be told, I think it's probably still worse than any of the other skill classes with magic tricks, like bard and investigator. It might slightly edge out charisma classes that have the skills and no magic support.
Then again, that's just an impression. I could be, and probably am, missing quite a few things.
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Hedge Mastery (Su):
By wiggling his fingers, the hedge mage can shape the fauna of his front yard to suit his aesthetic desires. He may cut grass, trim bushes, and sweep leaves with a gesture. His plants automatically stay watered during a drought, and get sufficient sunshine during a blizzard. Once per year, he may summon every neighbor on his block to his front yard to enjoy a Heroe's Feast, as the spell. This is a supernatural ability.
If the summons magical with a saving throw, or must invitations be sent out? :)
Thank you Te'Shen. No one has even broken down anything I wrote in such a positive way. The actual reason I choose 1 hour is that because of what I perceive the way most mechanical benefits to play out, gaining a bonus to a skill for a few minutes might as well be an hour. There is so much focus on working the mechanics to gain combat abilities, that if someone can work the system out of combat, I applaud it. GMs are more likely to use fiat out of combat anyways.
Oh, and rainzax, I'm pretty sure hedge mages shouldn't be shaping fauna. Better he sticks to the flora. ;)
I added hedge master as a hedge talent.
The main problem I see with this class has already been addressed, the Subtle Magic ability. I like the premise, but I think it has too many uses. Perhaps knocking it down to 1/2 class level + Wis mod per day?
As for the name, I like it, it conveys what the class should be about. I am excited as to the possibility of archetypes though, you have my full support on that!
And I like Imbue, but I do feel like it might need something. Not sure what though.
I have already changed the number of uses, so I'm afraid you'll have to explain why you think 1 per level is too many.
Also, do you have a suggestion for imbue?
Whoops, did not see that. My apologies. I was going off the 1 per level + Wis mod thing.
As for Imbue... I can't really think of anything. Perhaps a list of spell effects that can be added to an item in place of a greater enhancement bonus?
On another note, can I ask you what program you used to make your Hedge Mage pdf? I have a few things I would like to convert and make pretty.
Every time I come back to this post, I try to find something new to point out, but I keep getting beat to it when I do notice something, ha! Overall, I really like the concept of this class.
On another note, can I ask you what program you used to make your Hedge Mage pdf? I have a few things I would like to convert and make pretty.
I'm curious, as well. I tend to use OpenOffice and it looks like crap compared to this, though it could be do to my ignorance of certain functions.
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<Ciaran teacher Usagi and Da'ath how to make things pretty>
Subtle Magic
i agree with the concern that though the magic is subtle, the mechanic is mettlesome. being able to force people to re-roll is not only powerful, but can lend itself to slowing down play. thank goodness it is capped at 10 feet! i vote to bump it down to 1/2L+WIS.
Imbue
maybe the item also functions as a Bonded Object (per Wizard)? or, it can be used as a locus for subtle magic as well (10-radius from the object) - wait did i just suggest that?! - i definitely think raising the skill function of it is totally ok, just make it a competence bonus (so that it doesn't stack with other +5 or +10 magic skill-boosting items), especially if the spec is 2-to-1 the standard imbue bonus. you could also consider looking over every spell that targets an item and create a list of spells which could be Imbued into the item 'priced' at some ratio of spell-level-to-imbue-bonus?...
The main problem I see with this class has already been addressed, the Subtle Magic ability. I like the premise, but I think it has too many uses. Perhaps knocking it down to 1/2 class level + Wis mod per day? . . . .
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Subtle Magic
i agree with the concern that though the magic is subtle, the mechanic is mettlesome. being able to force people to re-roll is not only powerful, but can lend itself to slowing down play. thank goodness it is capped at 10 feet! i vote to bump it down to 1/2L+WIS. . . .
I'm going to agree with Ciaran Barnes again.
This class runs on Subtle Magic uses. You use it to Imbue and reroll/force rerolls at level one. At level three, you start using Subtle Magic to make 30' ranged trips, grapples, disarms, dirty tricks, and the like. You also use it to power some of the talents. Divide the number of Subtle Magic uses you have by four and that's roughly the number they will use per encounter (working under the assumption that your DM sticks with the regular four encounters per day).
At level one with a race maximized for wisdom, you have 1 (level) + 5 (20 wisdom) + 3 (feat). 9/4 = 2.25, so 3 in one fight and 2 in the other 3. That's pretty small for a primary class feature.
At high levels you have 20 (level) + 13 (36 wisdom) + 3 (feat, because levels are probably enough after low levels without taking the feat again) = 36 uses. 36/4 = 9 uses. Since uses vary between move actions and full round actions, do you think that you'll get a chance to use all 9 uses in the rocket tag that is 20th level gameplay?
I think at low levels he's Subtle Magic starved. At mid levels where the hedge mage has a moderate number of uses, he's still balancing skill use vs. combat use. At high levels, Subtle Magic is useful but even with the amount, it matters less because of other options available to high level characters. Just about everybody has a reroll ability in pathfinder if they want it.
Well, now that Te'Shen has explained it like that, I guess I understand it a little better being 1L+Wis mod. It's akin to a Wizard's normal spellcasting. Pretty poor at low levels, ok at medium levels, and bosstacular at upper levels.
Let's see, with 1/2L+Wis, those numbers would be 5+3 for 8. Not much has changed there. And 10+13+3 for 26 uses at level 20. That would be roughly 6 times an encounter then. Hmm.
Ok, I agree now with Ciaran and Te'Shen. Keep Subtle Magic as is.
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i still think a 1st level character being able to re-roll other people's rolls 3 or 4 times a day for minimal investment (WIS 14 and 16 respectively) is slightly too good. there are ways to address this without changing the fundamental abilities of the class. besides the class has 6-level spells too. three off the top of my head:
1) Imbue could be divorced from the Subtle Magic mechanic entirely. In it's place, Imbue allows the mage to prepare a number of objects per day thus. this could be one object for every three levels for example (so, 1@1st, 2@6th, 3@9th, etc...) - totally free of point cost. and, using 1 point allows the mage to 'switch' as a standard action.
2) the 'pool' could be an Imbue Pool, and using the re-roll function could cost 2 points rather than 1.
3) more of the Talents, instead of costing points, are made passive (ie function so long as pool has 1 or more point), allowing them to be used more-or-less at will.
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Thank you everyone for your comments. I appreciate them all.
Te'Shen definietly has me whooped in the number crunching department, and unless someone can make a stonger case, I will defer to the above number crunching.
If a hedge mage decides to only cause re-rolls, the yes it will be annoying for the GM, and yes it will be cheesey. I might change it so that he cannot use it on his own turn. However, I feel the Imbue abilities are handy at any level, and they are good for any party member, so that can drain points quickly if the party is short on magic items. There are also hedge talents that are best used out of combat, so that will drain uses as well.
Rainzex, I kind of like the Imbue X/day idea. I'm still leaning towards keeping it all in one pool, but I'll think onit. I'm a little confused by #3. I think you might have forgotten to type a word or two. Are you suggesting that more of the talents should not cost points?
I like it. Especially that Imbue feature. Subtle Control is AMAZING.
Can't wait to see this thing finished out. Dotting for interest.
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suggestion #2 is to re-arrange which class feature dictates the pool, and which merely draws from it. as you have it, Subtle Magic determines the pool (aka uses/day), and Imbue draws from that. the suggestion is to switch these two's position (in order to raise the 'cost' of SM), not to have each ability be separate pool. and yes, 'imbue pool' is kind of a dumb name, but that can be changed. like this.
Imbue Materia (Su):
A hedge mage gains a pool of magical materia points he may draw upon to bestow temporary auras and effects upon otherwise mundane objects, weapons, and articles of clothing or jewelry. The pool has one point in it per hedge mage level, plus an additional number of points equal to his Wisdom bonus (if any), and replenishes after 8 hours of rest. The uses for the pool are as follows:...
and then later:
Subtle Magic (Su):
A hedge mage's mere presence stirs tiny ripples in the space-time continuum around him. At Xth level he may expend two points from his materia pool to force any character within 10 feet of him or one of his imbued objects to re-roll any single 1d20 roll as an immediate action.
I think rainzax's rewrite is pretty awesome.
I can live with separating the uses/pool from the abilities that it fuels. I Think itsca good idea due to the amount of focus in this thread that has been given to one specific class feature, imams less focus on any other class features that use the points. This was an error on my part, due to the order things were created in. I should have gone back at some point and changed it.
Does anyone else think that the re-roll as a written is too good for a single use of the ability? I would like to keep everything at one use, for simicity.