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I've noticed that on the AP boards, we GMs can be pretty aggressive in picking up an AP, taking it apart, adding our own bits and pieces to it, then putting it back together with our own ideas and ideas from other GMs. The resulting adventures sometimes bear only a passing resemblance to the original adventures. I'm curious ... what do the AP writers think when we do this?
I would hope they are pretty psyched about it. Being one of those GMs who does what you describe, I have never expressed any disrespect for the adventures that I changed. I have nothing but respect for the writers, whether or not I'm using their material. To me it feels like that is exactly what all the available material is meant for.
I am GM'ing Curse of the Crimson Throne right now with heavy modifications. Still, the fact that I chose this AP above all else is already a clear indication that I love the AP very much and admire its writers greatly. I mean, I could have chosen any AP and I chose this one. Must mean I think it's pretty great, no?
Part of being a GM, for me, is making modifications. We've been playing the RPG game for many years now, we know what we like and what we don't like. Big dungeon crawls are not my group's thing, so the fifth installment of Curse of the Crimson Throne, Skeletons of Scarwall, will get cut entirely. Still, I have always claimed that as far as dungeon crawls go, this adventure is an excellent example. It's just not our favorite RPG ingredient, so we should feel free to change it.
Making changes also gives you the chance to introduce other published material in your campaign. I will fit in The Harrowing and Academy of Secrets, for example, which is of course a compliment to those writers as well.
In short, the thing I love about Paizo is that they are an RPG company that puts a lot of focus on adventures and has already published a lot of them, which gives me the chance to cherry pick what I like. How wonderful is that?!
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I suspect they are either A) writing down names and coming up with elaborate trap filled revenge schemes, B) rolling around in all the cash they get for writing them, oblivious to the changes made or C) drowning their sorrows in strong drink and northwest smoke shops or D) all of the above
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I know Richard Pett is a shoo-in for Option D =)
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I know Richard Pett is a shoo-in for Option D =)
i was actually going to say that but didn't want to single anyone out, that and i was afraid he would come after me, yelling "M'NARRRRRRR!!!" the whole time:D
edit: D'oh! thanks Orthos!
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Close, it's "M'NAAAARRRR" =)
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It must be strange to write a story to spark infinite permutations in the hands of other writers. All I can say is if it were me, I would be doing it precisely because it was going to be fodder for so many personal reworkings. I'd be a little disappointed to hear of a GM who -- faced with a choice between flawed material I wrote and tailored material for their players -- chose the former.
Creative Director
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It's certainly interesting seeing someone take apart something I wrote and rebuild it into something different. Sometimes the result is an improvement. Sometimes it ruins the whole thing. As long as the GM and players have fun with the results, though, it's all good!
The MOST frustrating element is when you see a bad review of an adventure you wrote, and then go to read it wondering if you screwed something up and hoping to learn from your mistake, and the bad reveiw is entirely because of...
A) The player of the adventure got his character killed, or even worse...
B) The GM made a lot of changes, every one of which incrementally made the adventure worse, so that in the end it was a tangled unplayable disappointing wreck, and then a player, who hadn't been allowed to read the adventure, posts a review of the adventure, when it's pretty obvious to anyone who's read the adventure that the player is actually posting a review instead of his GM.
The funny thing about B is that whenever I see this type of review... the player is ALWAYS blaming the adventure author or editors, and says things like, "My GM is the best and he went out of his way to try to fix the adventure but it was SUCH a failure that even he couldn't save it from itself!"
And then reading through the review itself and seeing how every single thing that the player complained about was a change the GM made... and in some places, the suggestions the player had for how the adventure could have been better were actually and apparently unknowingly suggestions that mirrored the way the adventure actually originally worked before his GM made the changes.
In any case... there's nothing an author can really do in a case like that.... it's frustrating, but you really CAN NOT step in to defend yourself against a critic review, even if you're right. There's basically no way for the author of a work to not come out looking like an ass, in my opinion, so there's a lot of training yourself to simply have a thick skin and try to focus on the good reviews instead of the bad ones.
(The adventure that "B" happened to me was, by the way, "Red Hand of Doom," so that was more amusing than annoying, since that particular adventure's got a pretty good reputation...)
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Option D does seem splendid, although mysteriously any money I make seems to flit directly to the present Mrs Pett's purse.
Mythic Evil Lincoln is spot on for me; its awesome to see how different groups played out different sections and different GMs put different slants on things.
But sadly, Captain Yesterday, you're right - I'm still going to punish you. In fact, I'm behind you right now. M'naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrr!
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Ghouls are awesome:)
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I do find though that I learn more from negative reviews than positive ones in general.
That does not mean I want a load of negative reviews though:)
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With the proviso that the review, like most on these fine boards, is considered, not just 'I don't like adventures with x, y, or z in them.'
Having great feedback is part of the process of making us better and making better adventures for you lovely people. Did I say better, I meant, badder:)
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*hands Captain yesterday a remote for one of his orbital laser artillery satellites* You get one shot. This one's a freebie because you amuse me. And no, you can't call in an orbital pie bombardment. That satellite's still undergoing repairs. ;)
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damn it now i wanna make pie:)
no remotes please tho, i lose them in seconds, Seconds! we have 3 tvs and 2 dvd players, no remotes (they all came with them) i broke none of them and we have no couch so yeah, no remotes for me:)
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So what you're saying is you already misplaced the Orbital Laser Remote?
Good thing it was set to one shot only... *heads to his bunker*
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i lost it before you were done giving it to me;)
surprisingly i've never lost my car keys or my wallet,
i still haven't figured that one out:)
also i'm making two* Buttermilk Chess Pies in the morning:)
*because one should never bake just one pie
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I usually do some minor changes to any published adventure to tailor-fit it to my setting (even only switching places in the same setting) and to my players's needs - as a large group has very specific requirements.
Sometimes published material needs to be fleshed out in certain areas (which are usually indicated as purposely left out to individual DMs to customize), sometimes certain areas of the material need to be cut and replaced entirely - and very rarely you ask yourself "why? just why?".
Sometimes I need to do some serious work.
I intend to run Second Darkness in the near future, and I've planned a moderate overhaul for issue #1 (flipping the adventure upside down: the PCs are investigating on who's running the Gold Goblin and then doing the sabotage stuff) and some heavy duty fleshing out for issue #6 (which is more a mini-setting, and a bit less cohesive in the adventuring department).
I don't feel particularly guilty in doing so.
reviews are tricky. just as though that JJ mentions above there are those that gives 4 stars cos they like a cover
I imagine most people, like myself, tweak the adventures a bit. with some may race/class/player style/GM style combos no AP will be 100% spot on for anyone
Getting feedback for stuff you have done, good or bad, is always...erm...good
(The adventure that "B" happened to me was, by the way, "Red Hand of Doom," so that was more amusing than annoying, since that particular adventure's got a pretty good reputation...)
Not only did I absolutely love Red Hand of Doom, I incorporated it into my current Kingmaker campaign. Save for the one player that I told, all the others think it is part of the actual storyline of the AP, and they are loving it too!
I've always meant to thank you for the greatness of that mini-campaign, Mr. Jacobs. Well played, sir! HUZZAH!!
And until we're told otherwise, it'swhat I treat the Goblinblood Wars in Isger to have been about.
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And until we're told otherwise, it'swhat I treat the Goblinblood Wars in Isger to have been about.
So they're taking the goblins to Isger?
Someone tell Legolas! ;)
(The adventure that "B" happened to me was, by the way, "Red Hand of Doom," so that was more amusing than annoying, since that particular adventure's got a pretty good reputation...)Not only did I absolutely love Red Hand of Doom, I incorporated it into my current Kingmaker campaign. Save for the one player that I told, all the others think it is part of the actual storyline of the AP, and they are loving it too!
I've always meant to thank you for the greatness of that mini-campaign, Mr. Jacobs. Well played, sir! HUZZAH!!
How surprising, I too am adding RHOD to my Kingmaker game.
where can i find this Red Hand of Doom?
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Dunno if you can get it somewhere in PDF.
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Rpg.drivethrustuff.com has been adding D&D stuff to their pdf-shelves for about a year. Not sure if Red Hand is there yet, though.
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From my perspective as a guy who put out a bunch of extra content for Kingmaker I'm always excited to see how they've been chopped and changed to fit into other people's campaigns. I'm just excited people use my material at their tables at all.
I'm sure the feeling is 10,000 times more gratifying for a published AP author.