Yes, and they can do that with slashing grace. I don't have a problem with dex to damage. I have a problem with a feat that is for saranrae cultists to use dex to damage with scimitars to use that feat with weapons that have no meaning to the dawnflower cult.It's the same trick people used to try to get Dervish Dance to work with Falcatas.*shudder*I genuinely don't understand why this is a bad thing. I mean, dex to damage for two feats, but you've got to use a specific weapon in a specific style is not actually great. People don't do it because it's awesomely OP, they do it because they want to play dex-based melee. Which is not unreasonable.
Spending a third feat and either a fourth feat or 1500 gold to change the weapon for a slightly better one... so what? Why is that unreasonable? Why is it fine for a pair of feats to allow dex-to-hit and dex-to-damage for one specific weapon which by default doesn't even finessable normally, but not okay to spend the third this way?
There's only two things really wrong with this: a) it's racial, and b) that some people who took it are going to be sad because they'd have been better off with slashing grace.
Which is pretty reasonable. What wasn't reasonable was that Dervish Dance was the only Dex-to-damage feat option for so long.
Pummeling Style's flavor can be the same, but the mechanics should work like clustered shots at best. You just pool your damage and subtract DR once. That is about as good as I will allow it to be at my table.I would do the opposite, actually. I would make Clustered Shots work as Pummeling Style because it's a good feat and they had a nice idea.
The reason I dont like pummeling strike is because your crit multiplier applies to all of the damage, so if your normal damage for the round is 85(possible at levels 10 and 11) and you mutliply it by 3 that is 255 points of damage. On the flip side most players would not want this used against them because it would kill them.
That is why I prefer to not use pummeling strike.
Even if you say it only applies to unarmed strikes so it does x2 damage 170 is still a lot of damage, and enough to kill many 10 and 11 level characters unless they are barbarians.
Oh, I know very well why you don't like it. But those are the exact reasons why I like it.
Fair enough. Once upon a time when I was a more brutal GM I would have had no problem with it. :)
Honestly, while I wouldn't mind the crits to all attacks part being dropped, I really do not want Paizo to Crane-Wing the rest of the feat into uselessness. It makes Monks usable, finally. Limit it to Monks if need be, remove it from Styles so a MoMS can't grab it and Pummeling Charge at 1st and 2nd level, whatever, but don't turn this into a useless feat chain just because Unarmed Strike Monks are actually usable.
As it stands, if you build a Monk right he still isn't as good as the Swashbuckler, Bloodrager or Barbarian, I suspect. He's probably better than an unarmed fighter now, but probably not quite as good as a two handed one. But you can finally zoom around the battlefield, using that immense speed, and slap the snot out of things. It finally allows some synergy in Monk abilities. I really don't want to see that Crane Winged into 'Once a day, when the moon blocks the sun, you have a 50% chance of hitting for half damage maybe' or something equally useless.
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Pummeling Style's flavor can be the same, but the mechanics should work like clustered shots at best. You just pool your damage and subtract DR once. That is about as good as I will allow it to be at my table.I would do the opposite, actually. I would make Clustered Shots work as Pummeling Style because it's a good feat and they had a nice idea.
It never ceases to amaze me the number of house rules people will put in place to limit martials because one option might be better than another, but won't give a second thought to reality-bending full casters who render them relatively obsolete.
Pre-nerf Crane Wing and current Pummelling Style are/were very powerful options... but are we really concerned about how much damage they might do, or how much damage they might defend against in a world where Wish, Time Stop and Create Demiplane exist?
Pummeling Style's flavor can be the same, but the mechanics should work like clustered shots at best. You just pool your damage and subtract DR once. That is about as good as I will allow it to be at my table.I would do the opposite, actually. I would make Clustered Shots work as Pummeling Style because it's a good feat and they had a nice idea.The reason I dont like pummeling strike is because your crit multiplier applies to all of the damage, so if your normal damage for the round is 85(possible at levels 10 and 11) and you mutliply it by 3 that is 255 points of damage. On the flip side most players would not want this used against them because it would kill them.
That is why I prefer to not use pummeling strike.
Even if you say it only applies to unarmed strikes so it does x2 damage 170 is still a lot of damage, and enough to kill many 10 and 11 level characters unless they are barbarians.
Unless you used mythic past life to get blessed weapon and bless your fists you still have to confirm and get past divine interference and a major luck blessing.
An unarmed character with pummeling charge is still weaker than an archer of equal level after level 6. I'd much rather face a pummeling charger than a manyshotting archer.
That all assumes all those defenses are in play and confirming at your highest BAB is not that hard.
I am not saying an archer is not better all around than an unarmed ___, but the extreme swinginess of pummeling style is not something I like.
A manyshotting archer can get to you easier, but you it takes more than one crit to down in one round. <---This assumes no pounce is in play.
Pummeling Style's flavor can be the same, but the mechanics should work like clustered shots at best. You just pool your damage and subtract DR once. That is about as good as I will allow it to be at my table.I would do the opposite, actually. I would make Clustered Shots work as Pummeling Style because it's a good feat and they had a nice idea.It never ceases to amaze me the number of house rules people will put in place to limit martials because one option might be better than another, but won't give a second thought to reality-bending full casters who render them relatively obsolete.
Pre-nerf Crane Wing and current Pummelling Style are/were very powerful options... but are we really concerned about how much damage they might do, or how much damage they might defend against in a world where Wish, Time Stop and Create Demiplane exist?
That is not even a valid comparison. Create Demiplane and Time Stop are not pummeling strike, and if I had a problem with martials invading a caster's territory I would not allow spell sunder since it dispels things. Wish also is not killing anything "all day long". If Wish worked like pummeling style I would put a stop to that also.
Moral of the story: Compare like things to like things.