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Once upon a time, I fell in love with the TSR Planescape campaign. And while I could go on and on gushing and praising that campaign setting, there is one book that stands out for me as stroke of RPG genius--UNCAGED: THE FACES OF SIGIL by R.A. Vallese.
Not only are their over 40 fully fleshed out multidimensional NPC's (plus many more minor NPCs) but Vallese did something (in my experience) no other NPC book has ever done. He created interconnected flowcharts in the back of the book relating said charts to the metaplot that all of the NPCs in each flow chart are apart of.
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE MORE OF THIS AND WOULD GLADLY PAY PAIZO FOR SUCH AMAZING DESIGN.
That's all I got. My request is short and sweet.
You might like Rite Publishing's 101 not so urban encounters then
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It was an amazing book, one of the best RPG supplements of all time IMO. I was about a week late in asking about the original painting for the cover, otherwise I'd have it on my wall.
The book type only works if you have a tightly focused central city for a campaign though. Golarion has a lot of potential cities, but could such a book be done to tie in to an AP centered on one of them? It would be cool.
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Never actually cared for Planescape and the abrasive tone of those books at all. Also the ugly cartoonish DiTerlizzi artwork. I've hated that product line right from the start. And Sigil itself simply never made any sense at all to me.
So, no, thanks.
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Planescape in a nutshell: "Hey there, stupid 1st-edition player! You thought you knew the names of planes and their creatures? Hahaha, we have changed all those names, in truth because we must comply to political correctness and cannot risk to offend unnamed parties, but we'll just pretend the new names have always been the correct names and the old names were just the ones known only to stupid ignoramuses like YOU! So it's your fault alone! In addition we're making up a new and stupid jargon to talk down to you, just because it's all the rage in other successful games now."
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Never actually cared for Planescape and the abrasive tone of those books at all. Also the ugly cartoonish DiTerlizzi artwork. I've hated that product line right from the start. And Sigil itself simply never made any sense at all to me.
So, no, thanks.
Arguing with this isn't really the point of this thread, so much as I disagree entirely, I won't.
However, your point also has pretty much nothing to do with the point of this thread: The suggestion was that Paizo make a thorough and interesting book of NPCs with detailed profiles of said NPCS, not that they imitate Planescape's style...so this post has nothing to do with the thread's topic.
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I was about a week late in asking about the original painting for the cover, otherwise I'd have it on my wall.
Oh God the art. From front to back, it is also one of the most beautiful RPG books ever put out.
Gah, I'd be happy to just be able to buy prints of some of those pieces. :)
That's one thing that would be fantastic...having a single artist with a strong, distinct style doing at least all of the primary interiors to give all those interwoven characters a unifying look. And as much as I'd love love love to see Tony DiTerlizzi doing Pathfinder artwork, he seems to be really busy with his own books these days...
So who?
...
Carolina Eade plz
Dear lord yes, Uncaged was a beautiful thing, and I'm pretty sure has informed my entire style of game prep for every game since.
YES. It was also a shining example of how to make an RPG source book useful and entertaining to read. It didn't so much spark the imagination as it exploded it and kept throwing firecrackers into the conflagration.
edit-
Strangers: Denizens of Kaer Maga, perhaps?
Kaer Maga would certainly be the best fit, considering the inspiration.
But it should be a book set in whatever city that Paizo most wants to do as a "city adventure" locale.
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YES. It was also a shining example of how to make an RPG source book useful and entertaining to read. It didn't so much spark the imagination as it exploded it and kept throwing firecrackers into the conflagration.
I've been using U:FoS as a model for the relationships between NPCs in the planar campaign I'm running out of Galisemni in the Maelstrom.
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YOU, Todd? Really?
:)
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Planescape in a nutshell: "Hey there, stupid 1st-edition player! You thought you knew the names of planes and their creatures? Hahaha, we have changed all those names, in truth because we must comply to political correctness and cannot risk to offend unnamed parties, but we'll just pretend the new names have always been the correct names and the old names were just the ones known only to stupid ignoramuses like YOU! So it's your fault alone! In addition we're making up a new and stupid jargon to talk down to you, just because it's all the rage in other successful games now."
Couldn't agree more. It seemed WAY more concerned with making sure everyone knew it was XXXTREME!!! than with actually making sense, having any continuity with anything that had come before, or being a good setting.
it's my favorite book of all time
the designers said in the NPC Guide thread that it will be inspired by Uncaged, but it wasn't
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Hmmm, I haven't gotten a postcard from Uncle Xanxost in quite a while. I wonder what he's up to lately.
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Kaer Maga would certainly be the best fit, considering the inspiration.
But it should be a book set in whatever city that Paizo most wants to do as a "city adventure" locale.
Absalom might "cast the widest net" there. It's totally selfish but I'd love to see such a book hit for Kintargo right before Hell's Rebels, considering how RP heavy that AP is gonna be. :)
Hmmm, I haven't gotten a postcard from Uncle Xanxost in quite a while. I wonder what he's up to lately.
My favorite piece of Xanxost artwork was captioned: "Planar scholar Xanxost performing field research on planar life"
The image was just this slaad beating a vrock with a rock. :)
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Absalom might "cast the widest net" there. It's totally selfish but I'd love to see such a book hit for Kintargo right before Hell's Rebels, considering how RP heavy that AP is gonna be. :)Kaer Maga would certainly be the best fit, considering the inspiration.
But it should be a book set in whatever city that Paizo most wants to do as a "city adventure" locale.
I would be happy with any or all of these options. Seriously. Any or all.
Hmmm, I haven't gotten a postcard from Uncle Xanxost in quite a while. I wonder what he's up to lately.My favorite piece of Xanxost artwork was captioned: "Planar scholar Xanxost performing field research on planar life"
The image was just this slaad beating a vrock with a rock. :)
God yes, that image and Xanxost in general made the Tanar'ri section of that book for me in many ways.
Man, my Planescape nostalgia is kicking in really hard, now. Indeed, my temptation to run a Planescape Pathfinder game is rising...
Hmmm, I haven't gotten a postcard from Uncle Xanxost in quite a while. I wonder what he's up to lately.My favorite piece of Xanxost artwork was captioned: "Planar scholar Xanxost performing field research on planar life"
The image was just this slaad beating a vrock with a rock. :)
From the Faces of Evil: the Fiends book!!
8D
Carry on!
--C.
<edit> Sorta-kinda ninja'ed (indirectly) by Deadmanwalking...
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God yes, that image and Xanxost in general made the Tanar'ri section of that book for me in many ways.
"Tanar'ri are immune to poison and fire. Even poison that has been lit on fire. Xanxost has tried."
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The entire PS line was awesome. Faction War anyone? Planeswalkers Handbook? I own I think three copies of that one.
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You might like Rite Publishing's 101 not so urban encounters then
I do like this product Thanael but it's nothing like U:FoS. It lacks that all-things-are-connected, self-referential quality.
Off topic, I am really excited for the Monster Codex, as I was also excited about the NPC Codex.
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I liked planescape a lot, but it is tied with ravenloft for second most divisive campaign setting.
I liked planescape a lot, but it is tied with ravenloft for second most divisive campaign setting.
I think that's only because of the people who didn't understand either setting's themes and misrepresented what they were about when GMing such games.
Planescape in a nutshell: "Hey there, stupid 1st-edition player! You thought you knew the names of planes and their creatures? Hahaha, we have changed all those names, in truth because we must comply to political correctness and cannot risk to offend unnamed parties, but we'll just pretend the new names have always been the correct names and the old names were just the ones known only to stupid ignoramuses like YOU! So it's your fault alone! In addition we're making up a new and stupid jargon to talk down to you, just because it's all the rage in other successful games now."Couldn't agree more. It seemed WAY more concerned with making sure everyone knew it was XXXTREME!!! than with actually making sense, having any continuity with anything that had come before, or being a good setting.
Also agree pretty much entirely.
Except, not having even seen the book mentioned by the OP, I'm already very excited about the possibility of such a book for Golarion. The similar-styled gazetteer for Sandpoint in Pathfinder #1 was one of the main things that drew me so competely into the setting.
Kaer Maga and Absalom are each both perfect and difficult, since they've both already received a campaign setting book, as has Katapesh and Magnimar. Kintargo is probably too small. *Is* there a city with enough complexity that hasn't already received a setting book?... Would Whitethrone be too homogenous? Perhaps for the country of Brevoy? Oppara?
I liked planescape a lot, but it is tied with ravenloft for second most divisive campaign setting.I think that's only because of the people who didn't understand either setting's themes and misrepresented what they were about when GMing such games.
it was a weird, weird world. A lot of what had already come before and was quite well known was intentionally turned on its head for the setting. I love planescape, but the players often left a lot to be desired.
Planescape in a nutshell: "Hey there, stupid 1st-edition player! You thought you knew the names of planes and their creatures? Hahaha, we have changed all those names, in truth because we must comply to political correctness and cannot risk to offend unnamed parties, but we'll just pretend the new names have always been the correct names and the old names were just the ones known only to stupid ignoramuses like YOU! So it's your fault alone! In addition we're making up a new and stupid jargon to talk down to you, just because it's all the rage in other successful games now."
also, this.
I am quite confident paizo would not make such a mistake.
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My dream is to do a huge Absalom hardcover with tons and tons of interconnected NPCs. I absolutely love Uncaged and would really love to do something like it for Pathfinder.
go for it man. It would be an inspiration to me and others, and make all sorts of gaming easier.
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Planescape in a nutshell: "Hey there, stupid 1st-edition player! You thought you knew the names of planes and their creatures? Hahaha, we have changed all those names, in truth because we must comply to political correctness and cannot risk to offend unnamed parties, but we'll just pretend the new names have always been the correct names and the old names were just the ones known only to stupid ignoramuses like YOU! So it's your fault alone! In addition we're making up a new and stupid jargon to talk down to you, just because it's all the rage in other successful games now."also, this.
I am quite confident paizo would not make such a mistake.
While I don't think that this was a mistake for the PS campaign, I don't think that theme/feel belongs in Golarion. I agree with Freehold DM that bringing that PS theme to Golarioin would be a mistake. I personally loved the feel that PS created as a niche campaign.I especially loved how much of the writing was written in-character. I also was and am a PS player and GM. I don't think playing in a PS campaign is indicative of the type of player you are.
Bottom line is that certain campaigns are not for everybody.
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I remember that book, I also liked the Dragonlance one. I totally see the use for a book like that. I mean the Chronicles: NPC Guide was nice but I'd loved to see more localized versions. Our first non-adventure path campaign is taking place in and around Katapesh. I'd love to see a regional NPC book. Like a Garund NPC guide, which would offer several NPCs from each country.
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Planescape in a nutshell: "Hey there, stupid 1st-edition player! You thought you knew the names of planes and their creatures? Hahaha, we have changed all those names, in truth because we must comply to political correctness and cannot risk to offend unnamed parties, but we'll just pretend the new names have always been the correct names and the old names were just the ones known only to stupid ignoramuses like YOU! So it's your fault alone! In addition we're making up a new and stupid jargon to talk down to you, just because it's all the rage in other successful games now."also, this.
I am quite confident paizo would not make such a mistake.
While I don't think that this was a mistake for the PS campaign, I don't think that theme/feel belongs in Golarion. I agree with Freehold DM that bringing that PS theme to Golarioin would be a mistake. I personally loved the feel that PS created as a niche campaign.I especially loved how much of the writing was written in-character. I also was and am a PS player and GM. I don't think playing in a PS campaign is indicative of the type of player you are.
Bottom line is that certain campaigns are not for everybody.
I guess we're going to have to disagree then. I have run a planescape game before myself and enjoy much of it, but I have found that most the the setting adherents(should have used that term instead of players, showing my age a bit) to be incredibly obnoxious - moreso than forgotten realms players, and that's saying something.
I remember that book, I also liked the Dragonlance one. I totally see the use for a book like that. I mean the Chronicles: NPC Guide was nice but I'd loved to see more localized versions. Our first non-adventure path campaign is taking place in and around Katapesh. I'd love to see a regional NPC book. Like a Garund NPC guide, which would offer several NPCs from each country.
...?
There was one for Dragonlance? Where?
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I love Planescape but for good and ill it had a huge amount of 90s RPG design which rubbed a lot of old school players the wrong way. It was a product of its times, having a lot of new terminology for familiar concept, a large focus on social interactions over traditional dungeon crawling, awkward rules growing pains, an attempt to be about big ideas and philosophical concepts, and most 90s of all a terrible metaplot. It was scene possibly subconsciously by the old guard as an encroachment on "their" game by players of Vampire and other such story games. It was aggressively different and thus got people mad.
Now look the one person on earth who liked faction war will argue with me that the metaplot was good.
I was mainly meaning metaplot in the fact that adventures affected the main line of games, that or novels. The most metaplotty of AD&D settings were Dragonlance (where that was the whole point) and Darksun (wow were those novels bad). Though you are right Planescape only had a little bit of that, it's sorta aggravating that post Faction War stuff had to account for Faction War. Which metaplot or not was still 90s game design. It wasn't as overt as Vampire, Deadlands, or TORG, but it was still bad.
I was mainly meaning metaplot in the fact that adventures affected the main line of games, that or novels. The most metaplotty of AD&D settings were Dragonlance (where that was the whole point) and Darksun (wow were those novels bad).
I see we will be at odds....
There was one for Dragonlance? Where?Unsung Heroes was the name of the book. I picked it up years ago but it's cheap on Amazon. Here is a link
http://www.amazon.com/Unsung-Heroes-Advanced-Dungeons-Dragons/dp/1560764236
can't thank you enough.