Remember Uncaged: The Faces of Sigil? Paizo should try this.


Lost Omens Campaign Setting General Discussion

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Freehold DM wrote:
Alex Smith 908 wrote:
I was mainly meaning metaplot in the fact that adventures affected the main line of games, that or novels. The most metaplotty of AD&D settings were Dragonlance (where that was the whole point) and Darksun (wow were those novels bad).
I see we will be at odds....

The Outcast still holds many fond memories for me.


Freehold DM wrote:
Alex Smith 908 wrote:
I was mainly meaning metaplot in the fact that adventures affected the main line of games, that or novels. The most metaplotty of AD&D settings were Dragonlance (where that was the whole point) and Darksun (wow were those novels bad).
I see we will be at odds....

I will not retract my opinion but think no less of you for your's. Certain aspects of those books just really rubbed me the wrong way.

Dark Archive

Quote:
I guess we're going to have to disagree then. I have run a planescape game before myself and enjoy much of it, but I have found that most the the setting adherents(should have used that term instead of players, showing my age a bit) to be incredibly obnoxious - moreso than forgotten realms players, and that's saying something.

Right but what I always remind myself is how limited each individual game group experience is in our lives. For example, I remember playing Vampire from White Wolf when I was 20 and hated it. I thought it had everything to do with the setting at the time but years later I was dragged into another Vampire campaign and loved it. I realized that it had everything to do with player chemistry.

That being said, I respect your XP with PS Freehold DM and it's just like anything else for the individual.....keep what we like/what works for us and throw away the rest.

Dark Archive

Alex Smith 908 wrote:
Now look the one person on earth who liked faction war will argue with me that the metaplot was good.

Faction War is the only adventure that really rubbed me the wrong way. There were elements that were intriguing but ultimately disappointment for me.

Grand Lodge

Freehold DM wrote:
The Daring Dragoon wrote:
Freehold DM wrote:
There was one for Dragonlance? Where?

Unsung Heroes was the name of the book. I picked it up years ago but it's cheap on Amazon. Here is a link

http://www.amazon.com/Unsung-Heroes-Advanced-Dungeons-Dragons/dp/1560764236
can't thank you enough.

Happy to help.


William Bryan wrote:
Alex Smith 908 wrote:
Now look the one person on earth who liked faction war will argue with me that the metaplot was good.
Faction War is the only adventure that really rubbed me the wrong way. There were elements that were intriguing but ultimately disappointment for me.

Tales from the Infinite Staircase was amazing as were a few of the oneshots for Planescape. I'm rather disappointed that there was no real elaboration on the ancient Baatorians.


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Hey, folks! A friend just pointed me here, so sorry for rekindling an older thread.

I just wanted to point out that when we did Faction War and broke all the toys, we fully intended to follow it up with another big adventure that put some of them back together. But that never came to pass because the Planescape line was sadly canceled.

So we didn't intend to destroy everything and then walk away going "Nyah nyah!" even if that's what it seems like. ;)

- Ray

P.S. Thanks for the Uncaged love. I'm glad to hear people still like that book, all these years later.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

It would be quite neat if they did a "Return of the Factions" type adventure for 5e if Planescape is ever picked up for it again.


That WOULD be cool. Hey, if Twin Peaks can come back 25 years later, surely it's time for Planescape.


Alex Smith 908 wrote:
William Bryan wrote:
Alex Smith 908 wrote:
Now look the one person on earth who liked faction war will argue with me that the metaplot was good.
Faction War is the only adventure that really rubbed me the wrong way. There were elements that were intriguing but ultimately disappointment for me.
Tales from the Infinite Staircase was amazing as were a few of the oneshots for Planescape. I'm rather disappointed that there was no real elaboration on the ancient Baatorians.

Oh it was, I used bits and pieces from Tales from the Infinite Staircase a ton in my last Pathfinder campaign. I also have the main Planescape box set, and the main Sigil book, and also a bunch of the Planescape PDFs, most of them are really great.

Faction War is pretty weak overall, but even it has things in it that I could see being worthwhile.

Wizards is apparently working on Planescape... part of me is really wishing they'd let that license go so I could see how someone else would handle it. Planescape was very weird, and had some rather adult elements (not so adult compared to some of the stuff White Wolf and other companies have put out to be sure, but still), somehow I just don't see Wizards pulling that off.


Ray Vallese wrote:

Hey, folks! A friend just pointed me here, so sorry for rekindling an older thread.

I just wanted to point out that when we did Faction War and broke all the toys, we fully intended to follow it up with another big adventure that put some of them back together. But that never came to pass because the Planescape line was sadly canceled.

So we didn't intend to destroy everything and then walk away going "Nyah nyah!" even if that's what it seems like. ;)

- Ray

P.S. Thanks for the Uncaged love. I'm glad to hear people still like that book, all these years later.

Thank you so much for returning and sharing. An amazing and belated birthday present. That said, this brings up a wellspring of questions. Would you/can you be willing to come back to discuss?


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Sure, I'm always happy to talk about Planescape, though I can't promise I'll remember details about everything. And hopefully I won't have to plead the fifth amendment.


Well I just started reading Matt Banach's novel Lost in Dream and one of the characters says "..., Berk!" Made me grin for ear to ear.

So there is a little PS alive in Rite Publishing's planar Coliseum Morpheon and Faces of the Tarnished Soukh IMHO. (The latter of which is incidentally an NPC collection though I don't know if they're as intertwined and with such great fluff as Uncaged)

Ray are you familiar with those products?


Okay, first, and potentially hardest question- why was planescape set up in a fashion to encourage edition warring? Was it a mistake or oversight or something done for legal reasons?

Second question- why the magic saturation? Was that likewise intentional or did it just happen?

Last question- what are your thoughts on the paizo Era take on planescape back in dungeon magazine?

Factol

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Q: Berk

A: I myself am not above berking things up ("berk it up" is how we'd often refer to the need to rewrite ordinary text to fill it with cant). But of course the cant comes from old real-world slang, so "berk" is a word that predates Planescape by quite a bit:
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/berk

Q: Coliseum Morpheon and Faces of the Tarnished Souk

I know *of* those products (in that I know they exist), but I haven't read them. Of the authors, the only one I know is Clinton Boomer, who can write the hell out of a page. I've only seen bits of RPG work from him, but I love his first novel, The Hole Behind Midnight.

Q: why was planescape set up in a fashion to encourage edition warring? Was it a mistake or oversight or something done for legal reasons?

A: I'm honestly not sure what you mean. Planescape had already been created by the time I joined TSR in 1994 (the boxed set had just come out), so I wasn't part of the mix that made it. If you're referring to the "smarter-than-thou" attitude that other commenters in his thread have mentioned, that was intentional within the setting (showing PCs that the world was much bigger than they thought), but we didn't want *players* to feel like they were being talked down to -- more like they were part of a cool club. Obviously, Planescape was a 2e setting that didn't make the jump to 3e, so no edition warring was intended. Also, the web is full of interviews with Zeb Cook and others about the origins of Planescape. Here's one now:
http://www.theweem.com/2010/09/qa-with-david-zeb-cook-2001/

Q: Why the magic saturation? Was that likewise intentional or did it just happen?

A: We wanted to give the denizens of the planes access to all sorts of crazy stuff to make the game more fun, and likewise PCs often needed more power to hold their own on the planes. Really, we also limited magic in that items could lose their bonuses as they travel away from their home planes, not to mention clerics traveling away from their deities. But I was never a big crunchy rules guy, so I may not be the best person to answer this question.

Q: What are your thoughts on the paizo Era take on planescape back in dungeon magazine?

A: I saw some things here and there, but I didn't pay a lot of attention to the magazines back then. Sorry. I loved that the planes were so wide open that writers could pretty much do whatever they wanted.

Contributor

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Factol Ray,

In 'Faces of Sigil':

1) Did you intend for Kylie the Tout to actually be the Marauder's daughter as implied or just to have the Marauder's protection of her from Autochon be something just to mess with the Bellringer's head?

2) A'kin is indeed just a really friendly shopkeep I assume? ;)

Factol

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1. Yes.

2. Yes.

Sorry, I couldn't resist. To be honest, I never intended Kylie to be the literal daughter of Shemeshka. I figured it was part of a scheme or mind game.

And A'kin has a bit of Garak in him (from Deep Space Nine, one of the best shows on TV at the time), so at any point he can be as friendly or as devious as the DM needs him to be. I think in Faction War we fingered him as the brains behind The Factol's Manifesto, which of course called that book's veracity into question.

- Ray

P.S. Someone else here gave me the title "factol." I would not presume to claim such an honor.


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Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens Subscriber

The only campaign I ever ran up to level 20+ was a Pathfinder/Planescape game. I interwove Infinite Staircase, Modron March, Dead Gods, Faction War, Die Vecna Die!, and Coliseum Morpheon. It was glorious. The characters ascended to godhood and are now in the pantheon of my current game.

Liberty's Edge

Starfinder Superscriber

A'kin was my favorite character in all of that. And I loved a lot of them. Kylie was another favorite. Hell, I loved the whole cast of characters from "Uncaged".

When I ran Planescape 14 or so years ago, A'kin made the players very nervous, all just by being friendly, and helpful, and not doing anything to hurt or inconvenience them. It was great.

Contributor

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Ray Vallese wrote:

1. Yes.

2. Yes.

Sorry, I couldn't resist. To be honest, I never intended Kylie to be the literal daughter of Shemeshka. I figured it was part of a scheme or mind game.

And A'kin has a bit of Garak in him (from Deep Space Nine, one of the best shows on TV at the time), so at any point he can be as friendly or as devious as the DM needs him to be. I think in Faction War we fingered him as the brains behind The Factol's Manifesto, which of course called that book's veracity into question.

*chuckle*

1) Well now I'm quite glad that I kept the truth of that relationship ambiguous when I wrote up the Marauder in Dragon magazine a few years ago. :)

2) Garak was a great character on DS9. As for A'in, that's largely how I always played him as well, much to my players curiosity and eventual lament. Such a fun character to use.

Factol

I should add that many of the characters in Uncaged (like A'kin) existed in other Planescape products before I picked them up and ran with them. Maybe they had a few lines written about them, or maybe they were little more than names mentioned in passing. When I started Uncaged, the first thing I did was go through all the Planescape books at the time and make a list of potential NPCs to include -- characters who seemed interesting to me.

Just wanted to get that on the record to recognize the contributions of my friends and colleagues who planted the seeds for a lot of what you liked in Uncaged.

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