my question is during the times when a character obtains multiple feats at the same time say due to being a human or due to how the bonus feats from the class you multiclassed into lines up with the feats of character advancement can you get two feats one of which has the other as a prerequisite. like say at 3rd level you multi classed into fighter and therefore get two feats is it legal to get power attack and furious focus at that time or since you do not have power attack before getting furious focus you must get another feat. i believe you but my friend disagrees because of the definition of a prerequisite having to be met before acquiring the feat.
You don't select your feats simultaneously, you can choose power attack first, then furious focus.
There may be some confusion with the general levelling up rules that say you have to qualify for a level before taking it.
When adding new levels of an existing class or adding levels of a new class (see Multiclassing, below), make sure to take the following steps in order. First, select your new class level. You must be able to qualify for this level before any of the following adjustments are made. Second, apply any ability score increases due to gaining a level. Third, integrate all of the level's class abilities and then roll for additional hit points. Finally, add new skills and feats. For more information on when you gain new feats and ability score increases, see Table: Character Advancement and Level-Dependent Bonuses.
Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat. A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he gains the prerequisite.
my question is during the times when a character obtains multiple feats at the same time say due to being a human or due to how the bonus feats from the class you multiclassed into lines up with the feats of character advancement can you get two feats one of which has the other as a prerequisite. like say at 3rd level you multi classed into fighter and therefore get two feats is it legal to get power attack and furious focus at that time or since you do not have power attack before getting furious focus you must get another feat. i believe you but my friend disagrees because of the definition of a prerequisite having to be met before acquiring the feat.
Your friend is being vaguely/very Rules Lawyer-y. Most DMs have no qualms about a player taking, say, Point-Blank Shot and Rapid Shot as a lv1 Fighter.
If your friend is REALLY pushing the annoying button, there's a bit of an unstated rule that the effects, especially at lv1, go as such
Race > Character Level > Class Level (Bonus Feats).
You gain Bonus Feats from your Race because its your Race - you have them prior to being even CL1.
Your Character Level takes precedence over your classes, and regardless of your classes you gain a Feat at every odd Character Level, so you have THOSE feats prior to any Class-granted Bonus Feats.
Class Granted Bonus Feats are gained "last" in effect
At that point, it's just a matter of semantics, and you should never have to explain it that way, but if your friend is being annoying about it and trying to stop you from doing what 99.99% of all players and DMs agree upon, then do explain it as such.
Also, I should add, that if the DM forces you to go through the effort of training to get your feats in-game (some do, and it's not a bad storytelling method), then you just say that you train your Power Attack first, and then a week later train to get your Furious Focus.
There. Boom. Done. Beaten by fluff.
Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat. A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he gains the prerequisite.
Or, that, yeah - RAW. Can't argue with a rule that's in ink in the Core Book.
Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat. A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he gains the prerequisite.
wow i don't know how i missed that sentence at all so that pretty much settles things up thanks a bunch
Sorry for the necro, but if a feat has a pre-req that you meet via another form besides a feat will it work? here is the example (and situation I am looking at)
Bloodrager class with the primal archtype states:
Primal Choices: At 4th level and every 4 levels thereafter, a primalist can choose to take either his bloodline power or two barbarian rage powers. If the primalist chooses rage powers, those rage powers can be used in conjunction with his bloodrage, and his bloodrager level acts as his barbarian level when determining the effect of those bloodrage powers and any prerequisites. Any other prerequisites for a rage power must be met before a primalist can choose it. This ability does not count as the rage power class feature for determining feat prerequisites and other requirements.
SO here is what I was wondering, a Suli race (energy resistance 5 to acid, colde, electric, fire) with this class at level 8 he opts for the two rage powers, since he meets the pre-req for energy resistance, can he take energy resistance greater without needing to take energy resistance lesser?
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No.
Once per rage, a barbarian can reduce damage by half from a single attack against which she has energy resistance (halve the damage, then apply resistance). A barbarian must have the energy resistance rage power to select this rage power. A barbarian must be at least 8th level to select this rage power.
The racial energy resistance isn't the energy resistance rage power.
Yeah I saw that, but had to ask... still think it is cheesy that if you can do something, you need select it again because name is different :-( I think to much thought went into each "rule" and not enough into the synergy of different aspects. I guess this follows the same division in thought as the bloodragers "bloodline" vs the sorcerous "bloodline", is a bloodline a bloodline or are the bloodlines different.
meh, food for thought :-)
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Unless you play PFS, you could Rule 0 it out with your GM.
For my upcoming Reign of Winter campaign character I've made an agreement with my GM to let my Draconic Bloodline Bloodrager's bloodline be advanced by the Dragon Disciple. By RAW it doesn't.
Edit: and ofcourse this isn't PFS, as the primalist archetype for the bloodrager is banned there, so just rule 0 it out with your GM :)
Hehehe, I usually do stuf like that when I run my games. I prefer fun over rules as long as the players are not into min/maxing. Makes for a more interesting game :-)