Ha, yes, but not everyone is as special a snowflake as Rigel.So, with no step in difficult terrain and no withdraw action, there is no way to move in difficult terrain without drawing an AoO. I just want to make sure that is your intention, Drazan?Apart from acrobatics? :)
Shh, Drazan has acrobatics too. ;)
I think you should be able to 'step, step, move' in difficult terrain. If you can't build up 'credit' towards getting through harder terrain I think it'll be weird. For example if Imix takes 3 moves he moves 12 ft. If he's moving diagonally through difficult terrain he should move 4 squares. If each move costs 3 squares, and there is no 'credit', then he moves three squares due to a rounding difference.
I'm sorry, but I'm not following you.
Where are you getting three moves = 12 feet?
If Imix takes 3 moves, he moves 60 feet, or 12 squares.
Ah, OK.
So he moves 12 squares, or 6 in difficult terrain, or 3 diagonally.
I'm still not sure how a 'step' comes into play. Unless you mean taking one move (20' or 4 squares) and using the remainder as a step? That seems complicated.
Shh, Drazan has acrobatics too. ;)Ha, yes, but not everyone is as special a snowflake as Rigel.So, with no step in difficult terrain and no withdraw action, there is no way to move in difficult terrain without drawing an AoO. I just want to make sure that is your intention, Drazan?Apart from acrobatics? :)
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooooooo...
Not everyone is as special a snowflake as Rigel and Drazan (and probably Istiel, and maybe Oios)...
Sorry, too early in the morning. 3 moves = 12 *squares* I meant.
So: difficult terrain takes 10ft of movement to get through.
There is an action that moves you 5ft but is not a move and does not provoke AoO.
If you take 2 steps in a row, can you move through 5ft of difficult terrain without provoking AoO. I think you should be able to, because I think a series of movemement distances should stack.
If you did step+move, then you would move further, but as the step did not take you out of the area of the combatant you would still provoke an AoO when you moved.
There's no need for a Withdraw action, because withdraw is simply step-move-move in the normal game.
Yes, it is possible to do attack-step-move. I like that. It's a fighting withdrawal, something Pathfinder didn't really allow but should have.
It also leaves you open to a Charge, which is now much better.
I'm going to need explicit rulings on how nonlethal and ferocity interact, but I think they can wait until after this fight.
Also: Oios can teleport. He's a special magical snowflake - and we are coming up to Christmas!
Hopefully I've just used up all my crappy dice.
Also, remember that the white area is difficult terrain, and thus you can't charge
I thought they got rid of that in Revised Action Economy?
Sorry about all the posts
Went to update the HP, and got confused.
Is this the damage:
5 non lethal from casting
15 from getting hit
2 from hitting the war drummer two times?
Got the feeling I'm missing something though.
Sorry, too early in the morning. 3 moves = 12 *squares* I meant.
So: difficult terrain takes 10ft of movement to get through.
There is an action that moves you 5ft but is not a move and does not provoke AoO.
If you take 2 steps in a row, can you move through 5ft of difficult terrain without provoking AoO. I think you should be able to, because I think a series of movemement distances should stack.
If you did step+move, then you would move further, but as the step did not take you out of the area of the combatant you would still provoke an AoO when you moved.There's no need for a Withdraw action, because withdraw is simply step-move-move in the normal game.
Yes, it is possible to do attack-step-move. I like that. It's a fighting withdrawal, something Pathfinder didn't really allow but should have.It also leaves you open to a Charge, which is now much better.
Ok, thanks for the clarification! So, step is possible in difficult terrain, but costs 2 moves?
Our options up for vote are:
withdraw yes
withdraw no [Drazan, Rigel]
difficult terrain step (2 actions) [Imix]
You can change your vote, if you voted and like Imix's suggestion (I do, for the record, but I'm not going to vote).
Mine is more a fallout of what I think we need to do to have double and triple move actions.
Also: Oios can teleport. He's a special magical snowflake - and we are coming up to Christmas!
Ha! He is a special magical snowflake
I thought they got rid of that in Revised Action Economy?
Sorry about all the posts
No worries! I'm glad you're asking questions. There's a lot to hash out.
Charge (Move; 2 Acts): You move twice your speed directly toward a designated foe within your line of sight, ending the move in the closest space from which you can attack that foe. You must have a clear path to your foe. If anything hinders or blocks your movement along the path of a charge, you can't take the charge action. As long as you have a base attack bonus of +1 or higher, you can draw a weapon as a free action at any point during the charge. At the end of the charge, you gain a +2 bonus on any melee attacks, bull rush combat maneuver checks, or overrun combat maneuver checks you attempt until the end of your turn, as long as those attacks or combat maneuver checks are made against the creature you designated when you charged.
To me, the bolded word, "hinder" says difficult terrain is still an issue.
Went to update the HP, and got confused.
Is this the damage:
5 non lethal from casting
15 from getting hit
2 from hitting the war drummer two times?
Got the feeling I'm missing something though.
You are: you've hit the war drummer twice since he's activated his totem, and hit the brave in front of you once - 3 hp damage there, for a total of 18 lethal and 5 nonlethal.
I think regarding the Nonlethal / Ferocity issue, the ruling that makes the most sense is to subtract the nonlethal damage from your negative con score. So, you'll drop unconscious at -8 hp as it stands now, unless you take more nonlethal.
-13 +5 nonlethal = -8
You've taken a total of 18 damage, putting you at -2 at the moment.
Mine is more a fallout of what I think we need to do to have double and triple move actions.
I think for simplicity's sake, we'll go with 2 actions in difficult terrain can be spent to make a step.
2 acts for a step. If we do have withdraw it should be three actions and no reaction till the following round and not in difficult terrain. Nice to have tactical options.
RE Ferocity.
That sounds very reasonable
Looks like I've made some bad choices then...
Does Staggered basically 'cost' an action per round?
Does the fire block line of sight and/or line of effect?
Even though Istiel is an unholy terror on the battlefield, can't say I'm a huge fan of the RAE. I feel as if it's disturbing ancient traditions long-rooted in my mind, and the cranky conservative lodged deep in my frontal lobe is shaking their fist at the whole shabang.
Not everyone is as special a snowflake as Rigel and Drazan (and probably Istiel, and maybe Oios)...
But Rigel's the one who smells nice - right, Istiel...? ;-)
As I've said, I see the RAE as a solution in search for a problem: someone looked at the existing Full round action, Standard action, Move action, Swift action, 5 ft step and Free action and said "hey, we can simplify things!" - the only problem is that what they came up with doesn't even WORK as written: you have to put the swift action back in.
If I ever write the review of Unchained that I've been planning, I'll sort things into the good, the bad, and the over-ambitious; the RAE will definitely fall into the latter category.
RE Ferocity.
That sounds very reasonable
Looks like I've made some bad choices then...
Does Staggered basically 'cost' an action per round?
Build-wise or tactics-wise this fight?
If it is build-wise, we can work on changing things.
No mention of how staggered interacts with the RAE in the rules, so we'll say the cost is one action. Imix has one more action this round.
Does the fire block line of sight and/or line of effect?
The fire blocks neither at this point - it is close to sputtering out. I still wouldn't move through it though, unless you've got resistance.
the cranky conservative lodged deep in my frontal lobe is shaking their fist at the whole shabang.
If I ever write the review of Unchained that I've been planning, I'll sort things into the good, the bad, and the over-ambitious; the RAE will definitely fall into the latter category.
I'm interested on hearing your thoughts on these, good, bad, and over-ambitious.
Oios, you've been cured 5 hp and are now conscious with 2hp.
RE Ferocity.
That sounds very reasonable
Looks like I've made some bad choices then...
Does Staggered basically 'cost' an action per round?
Build-wise or tactics-wise this fight?
If it is build-wise, we can work on changing things.
No mention of how staggered interacts with the RAE in the rules, so we'll say the cost is one action. Imix has one more action this round.
Does the fire block line of sight and/or line of effect?
The fire blocks neither at this point - it is close to sputtering out. I still wouldn't move through it though, unless you've got resistance.
Just this fight.
Imix took three actions this round anyway...
RE Ferocity.
That sounds very reasonable
Looks like I've made some bad choices then...
Does Staggered basically 'cost' an action per round?
Build-wise or tactics-wise this fight?
If it is build-wise, we can work on changing things.
No mention of how staggered interacts with the RAE in the rules, so we'll say the cost is one action. Imix has one more action this round.
Does the fire block line of sight and/or line of effect?
The fire blocks neither at this point - it is close to sputtering out. I still wouldn't move through it though, unless you've got resistance.
Just this fight.
Imix took three actions this round anyway...
So he did...
Well, there's only a 5% chance any of these guys hit you. I'm more worried about Drazan at this point.
Hmm - although, as we have an NPC with heal, I'm quite interested in switching the sphere out. Wild Magic and Healing do not go well together.
Also: how does she keep missing with a +3 weapon! Damnit woman, I thought you were a professional! ;P
RE Ferocity.
That sounds very reasonable
Looks like I've made some bad choices then...
Does Staggered basically 'cost' an action per round?
Build-wise or tactics-wise this fight?
If it is build-wise, we can work on changing things.
No mention of how staggered interacts with the RAE in the rules, so we'll say the cost is one action. Imix has one more action this round.
Does the fire block line of sight and/or line of effect?
The fire blocks neither at this point - it is close to sputtering out. I still wouldn't move through it though, unless you've got resistance.
Just this fight.
Imix took three actions this round anyway...So he did...
Well, there's only a 5% chance any of these guys hit you. I'm more worried about Drazan at this point.
Hmm - although, as we have an NPC with heal, I'm quite interested in switching the sphere out. Wild Magic and Healing do not go well together.
Also: how does she keep missing with a +3 weapon! Damnit woman, I thought you were a professional! ;P
I'm fine with people making adjustments to their PCs after this fight. We can work around the lack of healing.
A note on NPCs. One of the important parts of this campaign is that there will be NPCs that you all interact with on a regular basis, to give the world a sense of realism and to give foils/allies. Sarre is one of those NPCs (obviously), but she won't be around all the time. She'll come and go as her needs, and the story, dictate.
Your buff gives her weapon a +1 to hit, as I understand it - not sure where the +3 comes from.
Sarre's a pretty mediocre archer, actually. Like most NPCs she isn't terribly optimized. Sarre does have a badass survival modifier, though. She is great at hunting game, just not sociopath murder-cannibals.
If he dies
Ivan Drago? The embodiment of 80s-era US anti-Soviet hysteria, brought to screen, the
murderer of Apollo Creed, and haunter of my early childhood?
I got chills, man.
Gameplay post incoming...
Wow that was stupid of me. I wasn't thinking when I made my post. For some reason I thought thrown weapons didn't provoke attacks of opportunity? Should have moved with acrobatics to the war-drummer to avoid AoO, or just plain moved for the +4 to AC against AoO from mobility. (Of course, this is if it took more than one attack to take down the brave. Damn concealment is kicking our butts, knew I should have picked up Blind-fight!)
Ah well, mistakes were made. Hopefully not costly ones.
Re buffs: Aha! I see the confusion! I cast every spell Imix could cast, took damage and used his feat, in order to get the Caster Level to +5. That makes it a +2 weapon. He also has the talent that gives an additional +1. That makes it a +3 weapon. In addition to +3 to hit and +3 to damage, it should mean she can bypass DR for cold iron and silver. While in theory a P6 character can get a +4 weapon, as it stands she has basically got the archery equivalent of Excalibur. Basically, Imix burned himself out turning her into a god-killer.
I know, I know... but she was the only one with a bow. If civilisation still exists, Imix is buying a bunch of them when we get back!
RE Rebuild: Life sphere doesn't work great with Suriname magic because while it can heal you, an unlucky set of rolls can literally kill you (with a 6d6 fireball). Admittedly it is an 2/250 chance, but still...
I'm thinking maybe Nature instead. Given the side effect that occured, plant seems appropriate. Definitely getting it next level anyway!
Destruction might actually make sense as well, actually.
@ Istiel - with the damage already taken, you did enough with the first strike to drop the brave, so you'll be throwing the javelin and taking the AoO
@ Imix - my apologies, I missed that the first time around. I'll put buffs in the Mechanics spoiler from now on out, so that if I miss something you all can let me know.
That brings her longbow attack up to +4, which would have hit the brave that Istiel just knocked out. But, I'm not going to undo a bunch of stuff, so it'll just be a miss.
She's also got the shaken condition right now, which I slapped on her at the beginning of the fight, being as she's a hunter of animals, not men. I did this kind of on a whim, but I'm toying with making it something that happens to all not-combat trained NPCs, for a certain amount of time/fights/checks/something until they gain the 'blooded' condition. This will in effect make them more valuable the more they are used, or make them less likely to be used in combat situations, once you all have a little more say in who goes where and does what.
It is also in theory supposed to reign the NPCs in a bit - I don't want them stealing the PCs' spotlight. It is why I slapped the condition on her in the first place.
With excalibur and without the shaken condition, Sarre's actually a very competent archer.
Re: Rebuild. Yeah, that would be a bummer to get whacked by a fireball when you're in need of healing. I have to say though, I really liked the concept of Imix replicating the divine without being the divine.
Nature and destruction both seem fitting, to me. Fate perhaps as well, if Imix views his place in the world as some sort of divine order, which I believe he does?
Busy day for me today, I hope to get the next round going at lunch.
I still don't know why I chose the worst option out of three there, hopefully the dice gods smile upon Istiel. Knowing my luck she'll get crit and die. The javelin throw is theatrically pleasing at least.
Combat's over? I can fix that.
Sorry guys, he's going down fast.
Kill the wounded should include "kill all their wounded but one, take them prisoner." but I don't think he's got breath left for it.
Yeah - I liked the divine aspect. Still got healing channel which, if I'm honest, is probably going to be what we use most of the time. I like the idea of heal as a last ditch "throw the dice". I don't mind the wild magic on things like enhancements - they get used rarely. But on heal, which by definition is being used on someone in trouble anyway, it seems a bit much.
On the other hand, I think that's the major limiting factor that keeps Suriname magic rare - the side effects. Yes, you still need doctors and engineers and things, because Suriname magic is something you want to save for when you're screwed anyway.
RE Sarre: Fair enough. Imix is a bit displeased with how she handled it, but he didn't check how good she was. She was the only archer, and that made it worthwhile.
Ohhh this is about to get.... unfortunate. CHAOS.
If they're smart they'll all run away, but iuh.. we'll see.
if you could become staggered halfway through a round
Attack of opportunity during your turn could make you staggered in the middle of your turn.
Can't we wait until we kill the wounded before we start healing?
I'm not inclined to drag out what would be a rounds-long (days long, real time) game of whack-a-mole, as you all aren't going to have much issue taking who's left alive out at this point, especially as they come back staggered or barely positive in the HP ledger.
I can run the combat if you all want, but I'd just assume handwave it from here.
Let me know if you'd prefer the combat, or if not, how you'd deal with these situations:
Sentry 1 and Brave 1 and 2 are out of range of Imix's channel, so they remain stable and unconscious.
Brave 4 is dead.
So that leaves:
Sentry 2: Rheumy's eyes blink and he gasps, hand immediately going to his throat. He smiles, looking up at Drazan.
Brave 3: The man, swarthy and shorter than his kin, wakes up screaming, floundering around for his weapon, all the while babbling in his twisted tongue.
War-drummer: The drummer says nothing, sitting up ramrod straight, muscles tensing, and then scrambling for the darkness...
I'm good with the hand-wave, though I'm sad our loot is running away. They had healing potions in their gourds, or something. We're a bit low on the healing, so this could be a great boon...
Istiel may get the Brew Potion feat at some point to use with Profession Herbalist (If that would even work), but that's a long way off.
Also: Wardrummer as reoccurring villain :O
So should I post my reaction in the game-play thread or here? If anyone else starts moving towards the fallen and helpless to finish them Drazan may protest.
I doubt they have much treasure. If its worth anything they dropped a few weapons and their drums.
Wrote fast, and early. Sorry.
Imix is prepared to delay while people strike out. Even if they wake up, they're prone and unarmed, right?
Regardless, PCs move on the same init - so everyone gets their three free actions on the unconcious?
If people tell him to stop - especially Oios - he'll strongly consider it.
He's happy to stop after round 4 - though honestly by that point I assume everyone is up.
Imix is VERY keen to get 1 prisoner and the rest dead. They've seen too much.
Imix is used to being the only healer. He's bleeding out, but active (thanks to Ferocity). If he doesn't get himself healed at least 8 points, he's unconcious in the camp of his enemy. Every round adds a point of damage.
Hopefully might also stop the Tooyah fleeing.
If any of them start running, he's going to forcefully tell Sarre to shoot them.
@GM RE Spheres:
I agree with the divine appearance - that's what I'd like. I'm considering Nature, Death and just keeping Heal. War is interesting as well.
Rigel has darkvision: she can chase down the war-drummer, no problem; in the dark, he's effectively got the Blinded condition which limits his speed and his stealth.
Rather than hash it all out in the gameplay thread over a series of precise actions, just come to a consensus here about who lives, who dies, who is let go, who is given to the Tooyah, etc., I think it will be more expedient to discuss it here. I'm just trying to truncate what could be a really long stretch of posting to solve what is in effect about a minute of gameplay time, with little narrative reward to going through in relation to the time spent. Basically, at this point, what you do with the defeated is bookkeeping.
I posted the reactions of the ones that wake up from the channels above, so that you know how they react, because people are people, and they're all going to see a situation a little differently. That doesn't mean the drummer got away, it just means when he comes to, he's going to try to get away - as Rigel points out, you all will have no trouble finding him and subduing him if that's what you want to do.
Don't forget that in addition to the ones that are awakened by the channel, you've also got 3 stable but unconscious defeated to deal with.
The Tooyah that haven't run are sticking around for the moment. We'll deal with them when we figure out what you're doing with the defeated.
Oios would say kill all but one and drag the living one back to Shadeholme for interrogation. War drummer dies though. Oios doesn't like 'evil' magic.
Wondering if I should trade Protection out for Healing instead. a +1 to AC is a bit underwhelming.
Drazan doesn't understand abyssal, but it looks to Drazan like Rheumy has submitted to his groups defeat. Drazan will help the man up, remaining cautious towards him until Drazan becomes aware that he effectively has 1 follower and the beginnings of basically a barbarian horde.
Drazan doesn't care what is done other than killing them, which he is opposed to. People can change, even savages just like Drazan.
Maybe it doesn't progress the story, but there is definitely a lot of character development here. I get the feeling that Drazan might be the only one that doesn't want to kill them. I suppose he will look to Sarre and her beliefs for guidance as well.
Healing sounds good to me!
Istiel will agree with Oios. Kill them all except one. Conveniently one has offered to be Drazen's thrall, soooo we can go that route. If there was just one left Istiel would offer them the chance to face her in single combat to the death for their freedom, buuuut not going to spend a month was Istiel beats the s%@* out of injured mountain men for her own amusement/glory.
We can give the crazy one to the Tooyah so they can get it out of their system. Then we speak with them and head out.
How about we roleplay out what should be done with the cannibals in character and then Oios can go ahead and deal with the Tooyah?
Let's just say Imix can hold off on the healing until we decide? Might not be mechanically accurate but would ease the complication of who gets healed or not.
Edit: And so Oios the wise PC doesn't get held up by Azih the dumb player :). What would Oios know about these people. It seems that the 'Tooyah' are actually Reed People who are very very far away from home and the killers are barbarians from Fire Peak? (Edit: I meant Mountain Tribe Barbarians of course!)
Drazan, you probably missed this bit on the wiki (it is well-hidden):
Regardless of a PC's int modifier, in addition to Tkoyah, s/he knows Abyssal if s/he's from the Mountain Tribes, and Tsinyah if s/he's from the Tsinyah ethnic group.
I've always hated that ethnic groups in pathfinder with average intelligence have the Sophie's choice of not speaking the language the other PCs use or not speaking the language of their family and friends.
How about we roleplay out what should be done with the cannibals in character and then Oios can go ahead and deal with the Tooyah?
Let's just say Imix can hold off on the healing until we decide? Might not be mechanically accurate but would ease the complication of who gets healed or not.
Edit: And so Oios the wise PC doesn't get held up by Azih the dumb player :). What would Oios know about these people. It seems that the 'Tooyah' are actually Reed People who are very very far away from home and the killers are barbarians from Fire Peak?
Sounds good to me! Carry on in gameplay!
Totally missed that, thanks for pointing it out. Drazan will be cautious but probably for less time.
Istiel is currently busy making sure the Tooyah don't brain anyone, and disarmed the shouting one. Can react to other things as it happens, but really I'm with BP- don't want to drag things out here.
Anyway, off to work.
Drazen- Drazen knows Abyssal automatically because he's from the Mountain Tribes. Technically Istiel also knows the language, but she's not going to admit it or speak it, so effectively Drazen is the only one that can communicate with Rheumy.
Edit: And so Oios the wise PC doesn't get held up by Azih the dumb player :). What would Oios know about these people. It seems that the 'Tooyah' are actually Reed People who are very very far away from home and the killers are barbarians from Fire Peak? (Edit: I meant Mountain Tribe Barbarians of course!)
Istiel and/or Drazan can tell you that the killers are not from Fire Peaks.
The Tooyah are ethnically similar to the Tooyah people of the north of the Kingdom of the Three Peoples, but are seen by the Takayah (especially the Tsinyah and Tkoyah, but also Takayan Tooyah) as basically the unsophisticated, poorer cousins of those folk*. They live between the Takayah and the Great Lake, have some limited trade with their neighbors to the south (mostly fish and reed craft), live semi-nomadic lifestiles in the marshes there, with permanent structures built on stilts within the marshlands.
That the People of the Reed have never been conquered or assimilated into the Takayah should tell you just how little regard Cornucopia holds the lands to the direct north of their border - basically, the people are no threat and the lands not worth occupying.
Hash it out in gameplay for a bit. Once you come to consensus, we'll move on.
*Think of how an urbane sophisticate from somewhere like Atlanta might view a distant relative that lives in the Okeefanokee Swamp.