Goblin Squad Member
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Zerging into combat after death only happens in Alpha because there's no death penalty, and no economy.Death penalties yes. Economy no. Economy won't stop this. I remember in Darkfall if I lost my siege gear I'd gear up in another suit and run straight back into battle.
People stockpile away nice gear just so they can do that in sieges, and if the costs for 1 siege get too high you just switch to throwaway suits.
What you're going to see without death penalties is people gearing up in uber enchanted Tier 3 gear for the first 1-3 deaths and then rushing back in over and over and over in Tier 1 gear after that.
The cost of Tier 1 gear with trash enchants to vets will be inconsequential. Hell they may even be able to thread the whole suit themselves, and throw tier 1 gear at their grunts like it's candy.
Edit: That also depends on the frequency of sieges. In Darkfall every major alliance generally dealt with multiple sieges a week. If sieges are less frequent people will use more suits of T3 per battle.
But if I recall correctly, equipping Tier 1 equipment will severely decrease your power, as your power more or less is the minimum between your gear level and your character's abilities (loosely speaking).
Do you think that does not matter or weren't you aware of that?
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Goblin Squad Member
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You caught me. Dragon realms is the game that I still go back to as having some of the best MMORPG systems to date. I love the way death was handled there, and they also had open PvP, yet it rarely happened unprovoked. Clerics and paladins had real purpose and could spend a lot of time just raising/rejuving people and building up those skills. The reason I am...This is pretty much EXACTLY how death was handled in an old text-based MUD called Dragon Realms in which I first started online RPGs. With the 25% item destruction in PFO, this may be a bit extreme, but I could see doing a temporary XP loss, although I think a 2 minute temporary stat reduction would be better. I do like the idea that any of this could be mitigated by a cleric, although I wouldn't make the item destruction cleric mitigate-able, as that would change the economy and the items are not your soul. ;-)I'd like to see death penalties beyond just gear loss. I remember in LotRO dying added "dread" to your character which I know lowered your maximum health and I believe also lowered damage and healing output.
Death is LOTRO was a joke like it is in most other MMORPG's out there. I'd like to see death be a real event. You die, you don't immediately leave your body. If you leave your body (depart) without any clerical intervention whatsoever, you permanently lose XP. With clerical intervention you could be raised (should take a lot of skill) or players can use other skills to reduce or remove your XP loss upon departing. Both of these options should take a significant amount of time, based on the skill of the player performing the clerical acts. This type of system would make dying a serious ordeal but not one you can't recover from, and it would pretty much remove the usage of "travel by suicide".
I'm also in favor of removing "bind points" unless it's accompanied by a skill that takes a significant amount of time to train.
Good to see some SIMU players around. I'm an old Gemstone 3/4 player myself...started back when the game was still on the Genie dial-up service, not the internet.... and I agree those games definately had some of the best RP based mechanics around... although Gemstone was really handcuffed for combat mechanics intialy by having to use the Rolemaster ruleset... it didn't translate very well to a computer game.
There is MUCH to be admired in the MUD Dragonrealms (which is still running, btw). The death, crafting system, and skill gain mechanisms were superb.
DragonRealms was (and is) a great game. I played it on and off between 2001 and 2011. I still visit the site occasionally just to show others the greatness of their systems. I just stopped playing because text-based gameplay isn't really feasible with a group of friends. At 2 people it starts to become busy, at 3 it becomes hectic, and more than 3 is a scrolling disaster. Group-play just wasn't very feasible.
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Goblin Squad Member
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There is MUCH to be admired in the MUD Dragonrealms (which is still running, btw). The death, crafting system, and skill gain mechanisms were superb.DragonRealms was (and is) a great game. I played it on and off between 2001 and 2011. I still visit the site occasionally just to show others the greatness of their systems. I just stopped playing because text-based gameplay isn't really feasible with a group of friends. At 2 people it starts to become busy, at 3 it becomes hectic, and more than 3 is a scrolling disaster. Group-play just wasn't very feasible.
Group play in invasions in Gemstone was even more fun... hitting the attack macro for 2 minutes before you realize that either you or all the monsters were dead... got alot better after they developed a custom client which showed your health/injuries but still could be pretty insane... as Being said...really helped improve reading & keyboard speed.
I got VERY fast with reading and typing, but it just stopped being enjoyable. Also, DR had some significantly complicated (and extremely interesting and fun) combat mechanics that required knowing what was going on and being able to react.
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Goblin Squad Member
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There is MUCH to be admired in the MUD Dragonrealms (which is still running, btw). The death, crafting system, and skill gain mechanisms were superb.DragonRealms was (and is) a great game. I played it on and off between 2001 and 2011. I still visit the site occasionally just to show others the greatness of their systems. I just stopped playing because text-based gameplay isn't really feasible with a group of friends. At 2 people it starts to become busy, at 3 it becomes hectic, and more than 3 is a scrolling disaster. Group-play just wasn't very feasible.
My account had been on and off active from about 97-2008 (regular up until 03). I remember when they had invasions and we'd get into groups of 12+ people.. ahh what a scrolling lag fest that was. Good times. Although grouping was a weak point there was also some good in that a high level player could group with a low level player and both could benefit just by practicing skills in the correct level range (since even at circle 50+ I could still be really weak in skills I didn't use much). I really dislike how no modern MMORPG's have picked up on this idea and instead make grouping so difficult to do (must be within X levels, must have a party of Y, with the roles of A, B, C, etc).
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Not going back to the fight at all will decrease your power even more. If T1 is what you have left in your bank, then that's what you equip.Sure, but you may think that your expected losses by the power decrease are too high a cost for what you are fighting for.
+5 Tier 1 gear, with the perfect selection of keywords and feats, and attack skill 6 or armor skill 10, has as many keywords as +2 Tier 2 gear with a armor skill of 6 or attack skill of 4.
T1 Weapons will do about half damage from missing when used against T2 armor, after all damage reduction from armor, depending on defense and attack values.
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Goblin Squad Member
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WTB gear-calculator that will let me mix and match Skills/Feats with Items in the most optimal way.
I know some day we will have such a tool, made by one of the fans, and I want to express my gratitude beforehand for that. They take a large hurdle away for many players, and I think PFO is one of those games that would benefit hugely from it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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+5 Tier 1 gear, with the perfect selection of keywords and feats, and attack skill 6 or armor skill 10, has as many keywords as +2 Tier 2 gear with a armor skill of 6 or attack skill of 4.
I'm not confident that the extra keywords on +4 and +5 gear will directly add to weapon damage or defense ratings the same way that the +1 to +3 keywords do. Those may be reserved for special-purpose keywords like Cold Iron which bypass DR or have other specialized effects.
Have we seen any armor or weapon recipes with more than 4 keywords drop yet?
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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+5 Tier 1 gear, with the perfect selection of keywords and feats, and attack skill 6 or armor skill 10, has as many keywords as +2 Tier 2 gear with a armor skill of 6 or attack skill of 4.I'm not confident that the extra keywords on +4 and +5 gear will directly add to weapon damage or defense ratings the same way that the +1 to +3 keywords do. Those may be reserved for special-purpose keywords like Cold Iron which bypass DR or have other specialized effects.
Have we seen any armor or weapon recipes with more than 4 keywords drop yet?
I'd be really freaked if a steel longsword could get Cold Iron, because that's one of the automatic Keywords that cold iron ingots are used to produce.
As it stands, there's no abilities that use more keywords than a +3 t3 weapon. I can't even guess what the +4 keyword would have to be to make it better than nothing.
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Goblin Squad Member
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+5 Tier 1 gear, with the perfect selection of keywords and feats, and attack skill 6 or armor skill 10, has as many keywords as +2 Tier 2 gear with a armor skill of 6 or attack skill of 4.I'm not confident that the extra keywords on +4 and +5 gear will directly add to weapon damage or defense ratings the same way that the +1 to +3 keywords do. Those may be reserved for special-purpose keywords like Cold Iron which bypass DR or have other specialized effects.
Have we seen any armor or weapon recipes with more than 4 keywords drop yet?
I'd be really freaked if a steel longsword could get Cold Iron, because that's one of the automatic Keywords that cold iron ingots are used to produce.
As it stands, there's no abilities that use more keywords than a +3 t3 weapon. I can't even guess what the +4 keyword would have to be to make it better than nothing.
See here
