I just looked up Sohei and MoMS, and Alex is correct. They both either change or substitute the "Bonus Feats" and "Flurry of Blows" class features, so they are not stackable.
I was under the impression that as long as both didn't completely remove it they were still stackable. Oh well my group rules differently on this matter.
I just looked up Sohei and MoMS, and Alex is correct. They both either change or substitute the "Bonus Feats" and "Flurry of Blows" class features, so they are not stackable.I don't think this is true;
Here are the Bonus Feat and Flurry of blow replacements for the MoMS:
Bonus Feat: At 1st level, 2nd level, and every four levels thereafter, a master of many styles may select a bonus style feat... This ability replaces a monk's standard bonus feats.
Fuse Style (Ex): At 1st level, a master of many styles can fuse two of the styles he knows into a more perfect style... This ability replaces flurry of blows.
I think the Sohei replaces neither of these, but I guess you could very stringently determine that these don't stack? I don't think you have any ground to say that Flurry of Blows was replaced, but you could make the case that both change Bonus Feats.
Bonus Feats: A sohei may select mounted combat feats as bonus feats.
Weapon Training (Ex): At 6th level, a sohei gains weapon training in one of the following weapon groups, as the fighter class feature: bows, crossbows, monk weapons, polearms, spears, or thrown weapons. He may select an additional group of weapons for every six levels after 6th, to a maximum of three at 18th level. A sohei may use flurry of blows and ki strike with any weapon in which he has weapon training. This ability replaces purity of body, diamond body, quivering palm, timeless body, and tongue of sun and moon.
That's my understanding as well.
What about Energy Channel feat? It's worth it?And about equip? Robe and winged boots?
I don't know what you mean by Energy Channel feat. I've never heard of this feat. What is it supposed to do?
I found it. It says "Replace or alter". So yes it does technically alter bonus feats by adding to them so I guess in PFS they don't stack. But that's why I don't play PFS.
I dont see why you guy are ignoring the implication of Crusaders Flurry+ Falchion+ Pummeling Charge + Criosphinx build. Just has to be lawful evil to find a god with falchion and Strength Domain.
The word swift action prohibits anyone from using anything. One does not simply take swift actions on a WP.
That's why it's nice to have Combat Style Master so you can enter styles as a free action.
Although swift action management is part of the reason I want only 1 level dip of sacred fist war priest and go MoMS monk with the rest of my levels.
Simply because I've ruled pummeling style only works with unarmed strikes.
When will that be erratad away? why should the only nice thing monks got be erratad away? No dev has came out and said anythign about it being faq'd have they?
The idea that it can be used with any weapon is what needs errata.
as of right now however its the best option. Til an FAQ some along. People ask about deafened hexs frequently too and not FAQ has came out. My guess is even if they do make it monk weapons the Crusaders Flurry is still viable.
So how are your builds looking now?
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Actually, now that you ask, I'm not sure if Monk 2/Warpriest 5 is capable of taking Horn of the Criosphinx at character level 7. Since you only are a 2nd level monk, and only have +4 BAB, you likely can't qualify for it (because Sacred Fist bonus feats specifically have to be style feats, or in a style chain (for warpriest 12 and 18) so you cannot use your Monk level to qualify) so I'd have to push it back to level 9.
That'd make the overall build look like
1 - Warpriest 1 - 0 BAB - Minor Blessings, AC Bonus, Flurry of Blows, Unarmed Strike, Improved Unarmed Strike, Pummeling Style
2 - Monk* 1 - 0 BAB - AC Bonus, Fuse Style, Stunning Fist, Pummeling Charge
3 - Monk* 2 - 1 BAB - Iron Monk, Toughness, Power Attack, Dragon Style
4 - Warpriest 2 - 2 BAB - Fervor 1d6
5 - Warpriest 3 - 3 BAB - Blessed Fortitude, Dragon Ferocity
6 - Warpriest 4 - 4 BAB - Channel Energy
7 - Warpriest 5 - 4 BAB - Fervor 2d6, Weapon Focus (unarmed strike)
8 - Warpriest 6 - 5 BAB - Boar Style
9 - Warpriest 7 - 6 BAB - Ki Pool, Horn of the Criosphinx
10 - Warpriest 8 - 7 BAB - Fervor 3d6
11 - Warpriest 9 - 7 BAB - Miraculous Fortitude, Combat Style Master
12 - Warpriest 10 - 8 BAB - Major Blessings
13 - Warpriest 11 - 9 BAB - Fervor 4d6, Improved Critical (unarmed strike)
14 - Warpriest 12 - 10 BAB - Boar Ferocity* = Master of Many Styles/Monk of the Sacred Mountain
There is the possibility of going Warpriest 2 before going Monk, which would give me Fervor (awesome!) and an extra spell per day, but I don't personally think that'd be the best choice for me.
Apologies if this is a double post...?
The word swift action prohibits anyone from using anything. One does not simply take swift actions on a WP.That's why it's nice to have Combat Style Master so you can enter styles as a free action.
Although swift action management is part of the reason I want only 1 level dip of sacred fist war priest and go MoMS monk with the rest of my levels.
This does not progress flurry of blows and is highly suboptimal as a result.
Additionally that enables divine favor at 9th which gives you +4 to hit and damage, effectively cap level rage.
Huh, I perhaps mistakenly assumed something cheesy:
At 1st level, a sacred fist can make a flurry of blows attack as a full-attack action. This ability works like the monk ability of the same name.
At 8th level, the monk can make two additional attacks when he uses flurry of blows, as if using Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat).
At 15th level, the monk can make three additional attacks using flurry of blows, as if using Greater Two-Weapon Fighting (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat).
A monk applies his full Strength bonus to his damage rolls for all successful attacks made with flurry of blows, whether the attacks are made with an off-hand or with a weapon wielded in both hands. A monk may substitute disarm, sunder, and trip combat maneuvers for unarmed attacks as part of a flurry of blows. A monk cannot use any weapon other than an unarmed strike or a special monk weapon as part of a flurry of blows. A monk with natural weapons cannot use such weapons as part of a flurry of blows, nor can he make natural attacks in addition to his flurry of blows attacks.
I was thinking monk levels would still progress this monk ability?
No they don't stack. You have a separate pseudo monk level of your cleric and a monk level from your monk. They don't stack. All it's saying is reference that other page as if it was on this page for this class.
Monk levels would (sorta) in that you would add your BAB from the two classes. The problem though is that MoMS gives up Flurry for Fuse Style. So in your scenario you'd only have 1 level in a class with Flurry.
Part of this build's power is that you're getting the strength of the MoMS (early access to style feats) without the drawback of trading away flurry. Up until now, no other class has gotten flurry so you couldn't just multi-class the penalty away.
Edit: Half-ninja'd by Gargs
Monk levels would (sorta) in that you would add your BAB from the two classes. The problem though is that MoMS gives up Flurry for Fuse Style. So in your scenario you'd only have 1 level in a class with Flurry.
I understood that that much would work, wasn't quite sure about getting the extra attacks.
Well, that's not completely terrible. You get Full BAB, get two-weapon fighting, BAB iterative attacks, you still get a Ki Pool to add an extra attack, maybe add in haste... A Warpriest 1/MoMS X wouldn't be completely gimped by this.
Monk levels would (sorta) in that you would add your BAB from the two classes. The problem though is that MoMS gives up Flurry for Fuse Style. So in your scenario you'd only have 1 level in a class with Flurry.I understood that that much would work, wasn't quite sure about getting the extra attacks.
Well, that's not completely terrible. You get Full BAB, get two-weapon fighting, BAB iterative attacks, you still get a Ki Pool to add an extra attack, maybe add in haste... A Warpriest 1/MoMS X wouldn't be completely gimped by this.
You only get to count the warpriest levels as BAB for warpriest. You MoMS bab is unchanged for the flurry.
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Yeah, I can't see a damn reason for them to give us Flurry of Blows and then have it rely on Monk levels (that some Sacred Fists might not even have!). Only the most literal of strict-RAW nutjobs would ever consider that a Sacred Fist doesn't get to use their Warpriest levels as their BAB for Flurry.
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Bigdaddyjug is right. MoMS specifically gives the ability to use more than one stance at a time (though only 2 of them at a time in this Sacred Fist build).
With Combat Style Master, you start in Pummeling Stance, and then you use your Swift (before the charge) to enter Dragon Stance.
Prior to that, you just have to hope your DM will let you wander around in one of the stances (and then enter the second when combat starts), or just suck up the fact that it'll be round 2 before you can have both up.
That's what combat style master is for. In the meantime you are probably going to swift activate pummelling style to close or if the enemy is already in your grill, you can start with dragon.
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The 2nd level doesn't change your BAB for Flurry (as Monk 2 gives +1 BAB), and it gives you a number of things. You also grab Toughness and +1 natural armor (or Evasion if you're not a Sacred Mountain) and +1 to all saves, on top of that prerequisite-free feat.
You're welcome to only go Monk 1/Warpriest X, but it's not a cut-and-dry better option, in my opinion.
The # of flurry attacks is determined by the effective BAB, isn't it?
Mostly. You get additional extra attacks as you level as if you had the Two Weapon Fighting chain.
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The # of flurry attacks is determined by the effective BAB, isn't it?Mostly. You get additional extra attacks as you level as if you had the Two Weapon Fighting chain.
You don't get the Improved TWF equivalent until 8th level in (flurry granting class). You don't get the Greater TWF until 15th level. This is based on class level, not BAB.
And quite often I've found myself in an escalating situation were it was perfectly justified to draw a weapon or assume a fighting stance in order to defend yourself before combat actually began. Not every situation has an enemy falling on you and proceeding to attempt murder. But. Once again. That's what combat style master is for.
Sorry, I'm sure this has been asked elsewhere, but seeing the language of Pummeling Style reprinted here just reminded of a question. Is there any consensus on what the language of the last sentence "If it succeeds, the entire attack is a confirmed critical hit." means? What I mean by that is: Do the attacks that would have missed suddenly become confirmed crits? Even assuming this gets more explicitly limited to unarmed strikes only, That's. Just. Awesome.
I'm pretty sure it just means the damage get's modified by the crit.
Gotcha, much as I love my monk, that does actually make a lot more sense. :)
all since it's only 1 attack.