As a PFS player I'm completely unsure if 1 MoMS + Sohei is better than 2 MoMS + Iron Mountain.
I'm leaning Sohei + MoMS 1 for the spectacular initiative.
Toughness and +1 ac is indeed better than evasion because you're unlikely to die from a successful reflex save.
What do you guys think is the best third style feat at level 7/8? Jabbing seems ok but not as good as dragon.
I think Boar Style is nice. That's an extra 2d6 of bleed damage per round and your unarmed strikes now count as slashing.
Another good option is Snake Style. Pump up your Sense Motive and have a ridiculously high armour class against one attack each round.
Pummeling dragon style. Be what the monk was meant to be!
It would not be better. Damage dice are lack luster you more strength is awesome.
Also. I went with Sohei with mine so that I could pick up crusader's flurry with the longbow turning my Warpriest into a pretty decent switch hitter.
Sohei are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, as well as light armor.
First, awesome work! This might be the most workable/respectable monk build that I've seen yet.
Having said that... is anyone else seeing a jawbreakingly hard nerf in the wings for the Pummeling feats? They solve a LOT of problems for the monk, including getting magic weapon bonuses on an unarmed strike. Frankly, they're too good to be true. I figure it's less a question of "will this be smashed to the ground by errata?" and more "will I have enough time to play this build before the feat is smashed to the ground by errata?"
Or a Sohei could just take weapon training in bows at 6, and save the feat and the cleric dip to qualify for it.
Well the point was to be Warpriest not a Sohei. The Sohei just got tacked on because I was dipping MoMS anyway. Also. Warpriest gets channel energy so there's no need to dip cleric.
It would not be better. Damage dice are lack luster you more strength is awesome.
Also. I went with Sohei with mine so that I could pick up crusader's flurry with the longbow turning my Warpriest into a pretty decent switch hitter.
I don't get it...Dragon style+dragon ferocity = STR bonus x2
Horn of the criosphinx=STR bonus x2Isn't horn of the criosphinx better? 1 feat vs 2?
Furthermore doesn't Dragon Style states this?:you can add 1-1/2 times your Strength bonus on the damage roll for your first unarmed strike
Can you add the 1-1/2 STR bonus on every atk of the pummeling flurry?
Dragon Style allows you to add 1-1/2 strength on your first unarmed attack in a round instead of just your strength.
Dragon Ferocity grants an untyped damage bonus equal to half your strength mod to ALL of your unarmed strikes.
And as far as I can tell horn of the criosphinx stacks because it's another untyped damage bonus.
They do not stack. They override.
Yes that's what I meant. And I see no reason they would override.
I think that the Dragon style won't stacks with Horn of C.
But I'm pretty sure that Horn of C. will stacks with dragon ferocity for 2.5x str bonus damage for each hit XDDDD I love you chaotic !!!!
Upon rechecking yeah. You're right it is instead of the normal strength bonus. So yes. Dragon Style doesn't work in this combo.
Dragon Ferocity does.
Also Dragon style is a good way to shore up damage when you're not charging so it's still a decent feat to have. Plus Dragon Style is what let's you charge through difficult terrain and allies. So it's plenty beneficial to have HotC and Dragon Style.
Freaking sweet; I've always wanted to find a way to make Master of Many Styles function, but it was just too weak on its own. I think 1 level dip of Sacred Fist Wapriest and the rest Master of Many Styles would be fun.
Janni Rush looks like its not worthless when combined with Pummeling Charge. Just read that Horn of the Criosphinx everyone's talking about. Yowza, that looks like strong stuff, if I'm reading that correctly.
So...
Warpriest Sacred Fist 1 - Pummeling Style
Warpriest 1/MoMS 1 - Pummeling Charge
Warpriest 1/MoMS 2 - Janni Style/Janni Rush
...and then find a few more combat styles to throw in there. 3 Styles? 4 Styles? Too bad you can never reach the capstone, but I suppose it was never that good to begin with. (With Combat Style Master, it's hard to imagine more than 4 styles running at once would accomplish anything.)
...and finally! That monk fast movement will work well with flurry of blows!
They do not stack. They override.
Never mind you were right. I misremembered the exact wording.
Freaking sweet; I've always wanted to find a way to make Master of Many Styles function, but it was just too weak on its own. I think 1 level dip of Sacred Fist Wapriest and the rest Master of Many Styles would be fun.
Janni Rush looks like its not worthless when combined with Pummeling Charge. Just read that Horn of the Criosphinx everyone's talking about. Yowza, that looks like strong stuff, if I'm reading that correctly.
So...
Warpriest Sacred Fist 1 - Pummeling Style
Warpriest 1/MoMS 1 - Pummeling Charge
Warpriest 1/MoMS 2 - Janni Style/Janni Rush...and then find a few more combat styles to throw in there. 3 Styles? 4 Styles? Too bad you can never reach the capstone, but I suppose it was never that good to begin with. (With Combat Style Master, it's hard to imagine more than 4 styles running at once would accomplish anything.)
Pummeling Charge is the capstone in this build and it's plenty worth it. And yes Janni style is still plenty useful but Dragon style makes charging easier because you can ignore terrain and allies. But then again I've made a Janni style using pouncing barbarian and doing a flying flurry of kicks is always a fun image.
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So the long and short of it is that Dragon Ferocity (+.5x Str to all unarmed attacks) and Horn of the Crosphinx (double your Str bonus on all 2h attacks, or unarmed attacks with empty hands on a monk, when charging) work perfectly fine together.
So if you've got 18 Str, you'd get +8 damage on a charge from HotC, and +2 damage from Dragon Ferocity, for a total of +10 damage from Strength for each hit you make in a Pummeling Charge attack. And that's before buffs, enhancement bonuses and all that. Delicious.
This still means Dragon Style + Dragon Ferocity would be worth using, even after the charge, because HotC doesn't work on those attacks.
Yeah the most you can go without your flurry suffering is 4 levels of MoMS.
I just realized something indescribably depressing. My 1 level dip build wouldn't get PA till 7th level after some revisions.
SF 1: Pummeling style
SF 2:
MoMS/Iron Mountain 1: Dragon style, B: Pummeling charge.
SF 3:
SF 4: Dragon Ferocity
SF 5:
SF 6: Power attack B:?I suppose MOMS 2 would change this to PA at 5th.
I would pick Horn of the Criosphinx before Power Attack anyway. The trick with this whole build is deciding when to take the 2nd level of MoMS. Look closely at SF with all its interesting class abilities and spell slots by level before deciding when to take that 2nd level of MoMS.
Yeah it's best to go Dragon and Horn first because it's a decent damage boost without the attack penalty
Just noticed people are talking about stacking MoMS and Sohei and at least in PFS that will not fly...
Just noticed people are talking about stacking MoMS and Sohei and at least in PFS that will not fly...
Why won't that fly? I thought both Archetypes are PFS legal and none of their class abilities overlap.
Explain yourself Alex.
I like the no duration luck blessing as it helps saves and the high blessing is awesome.
Good is also great, destruction is ok, artifice is really good for season 6 as is chaos, I think also that the nobility, and war blessings are good.
I think you are spot on with your assessment of the blessings. I'm strongly tempted to go Luck as well as Good.
Artifice is tempting to me because of season 6 but I hesitate because the wording says "you can touch one melee weapon". That worries me as I don't know how that would work with your flurry of blows when you use different parts of your body as your unarmed strike. Would it mean that only one of your attacks counts for the artifice blessing each round? I just don't know.
I like the no duration luck blessing as it helps saves and the high blessing is awesome.
Good is also great, destruction is ok, artifice is really good for season 6 as is chaos, I think also that the nobility, and war blessings are good.
I think you are spot on with your assessment of the blessings. I'm strongly tempted to go Luck as well as Good.
Artifice is tempting to me because of season 6 but I hesitate because the wording says "you can touch one melee weapon". That worries me as I don't know how that would work with your flurry of blows when you use different parts of your body as your unarmed strike. Would it mean that only one of your attacks counts for the artifice blessing each round? I just don't know.
Unarmed strike is one weapon. Your whole body. It's been brought up before. Magic Weapon enhances your whole body(if you're a monk) for that reason.
I just looked up Sohei and MoMS, and Alex is correct. They both either change or substitute the "Bonus Feats" and "Flurry of Blows" class features, so they are not stackable.
Ah ok. I was relying on Herolab which doesn't always build things exactly right.
I just looked up Sohei and MoMS, and Alex is correct. They both either change or substitute the "Bonus Feats" and "Flurry of Blows" class features, so they are not stackable.
I don't think this is true;
Here are the Bonus Feat and Flurry of blow replacements for the MoMS:
Bonus Feat: At 1st level, 2nd level, and every four levels thereafter, a master of many styles may select a bonus style feat... This ability replaces a monk's standard bonus feats.
Fuse Style (Ex): At 1st level, a master of many styles can fuse two of the styles he knows into a more perfect style... This ability replaces flurry of blows.
I think the Sohei replaces neither of these, but I guess you could very stringently determine that these don't stack? I don't think you have any ground to say that Flurry of Blows was replaced, but you could make the case that both change Bonus Feats.
Bonus Feats: A sohei may select mounted combat feats as bonus feats.
Weapon Training (Ex): At 6th level, a sohei gains weapon training in one of the following weapon groups, as the fighter class feature: bows, crossbows, monk weapons, polearms, spears, or thrown weapons. He may select an additional group of weapons for every six levels after 6th, to a maximum of three at 18th level. A sohei may use flurry of blows and ki strike with any weapon in which he has weapon training. This ability replaces purity of body, diamond body, quivering palm, timeless body, and tongue of sun and moon.
It doesn't help that the Sohei doesn't use the "This ability replaces a monk's standard bonus feats." or similar language to leave no doubt.