You raise a point about the price. However, alchemical item prices are really wonky and not totally standardized. The smoke pellet (25g) has more than twice the price of a smoke arrow or smoke bullet (10gp), though it does target touch AC. Perhaps it's best I make it a 5ft square for 1 round and price/design it in line with the smoke arrow and bullet. The cartridge could splash for scatter weapons.
The explosive cartridge I'm most conflicted about. Maybe it might be best to give it a higher price but make it more enticing for a "finisher" or something. I did consider another cartridge type that explodes in a cone or a line behind the target as a clever way to extend the firearm's range for other targets.
A harpoon gun would be awesome. Perhaps a slow-firing two-hander that does that. I held off on the harpoon gun idea because there's so many fun ways to design it. For example, it could be fun if you could use it as a grappling hook or like a hookshot.
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What do you think of this draft for revised/added alchemical cartridges? I'm a little worried they may be too powerful or too expensive.
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I would recomend to have them all "as a standard action" note because i can see this abused with particulary rich gunslingers. 2d6 damage is like 2 enchantments worth. Since i see this more liek utilities i think is balanced and makes the gunslinger more versatile while not flaming a whole room with napalm on a fullattack
I am a big fan of what you've been doing here. But I have nothing to add sadly. So far, I have no problem with the changes. Touch attacks from a group of weapons are silly to me, if other weapons that don't do similar things get them as well. ElementalXX's point about the Warhammer is spot on.
I would recomend to have them all "as a standard action" note because i can see this abused with particulary rich gunslingers. 2d6 damage is like 2 enchantments worth. Since i see this more liek utilities i think is balanced and makes the gunslinger more versatile while not flaming a whole room with napalm on a fullattack
I have mixed feelings about making them standard actions, especially when other ranged weapon special ammo doesn't require them. On the other hand, it would allow me to make the special ammo more powerful.
I think people's problem with firearms being at touch AC is that they think that the bullets pass through the armor. They don't. Think of it like this: Even if the bullet doesn't pass through the armor, it's going to pass the force of the blow through the armor, and it's going to hurt, ALOT. Possibly breaking bones, even without penetrating the armor. That's why they're only touch attacks in the first range increment, after the first range increment the bullets do not have the force behind them to hurt as much through armor.
This topic has become a dead horse at the moment. There's so many things wrong with firearm touch attacks in terms of believibility, flavor, and game mechanics. Even touch attacks themselves are a flawed concept.
@Cyrad: Have you considered increasing the ranges of guns since you've removed touch attacks?
My players made an argument that the ranges on guns were so short due to that being the range at which touch attacks happened. Now that touches are gone, have you considered increasing that range? It fits the fluff, but it's pretty bad in comparison to crossbow/bows.
I saw this earlier, but maybe you've re-thought it
right now he's searching for some wondrous item that will somehow increase his range, despite me telling him that the distance property is pretty much it.
For reference I allow half-dex dmg on crossbows and bows can be half-dex, half-str on dmg. So guns aren't a huge bump in damage, but it's surely nice.
I just saw you post and have only skimmed it so far but I wanted to post my thoughts on your first post.
I want to give a little rework to firearms and gunslingers to eliminate full-round touch attacking, make firearms less annoying to use, and give more value to the gunslinger's deeds. I try to accomplish this by:
1) Firearms now target normal AC. Touch attacks are only possible through a gunslinger deed that costs grit and isn't modified by true grit.
For this I agree if the armor has any from of metal in it for even flintlock should penetrate hide with little issue, if anything maybe just medium armor and up its normal AC light touch unless its made of special material. I do like that it should be a deed to hit touch with it if anything.
2) Firearms now add Dexterity to damage rolls.
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I feel if anything it should be wis to damage it has never made sense to me that it was dex, to me to hit harder with a gun one should know were to aim so for me this should be Wis not Dex.
3) Misfires can only occur if the gun breaks or is reloaded by a non-proficient character.
I guess im ok with this but even a solider in that time could make a mistake when packing down the powder in the heat of battle so a misfire should still occur.
4) Quick clear is replaced with a deed that works like the swashbuckler's derring-do deed, but with skills benefiting a gritty combatant.
I don't know how I feel on this, ill have to read on it more and get back to you.
5) Fast musket is gone from Musket Master. Instead, the archetype grants early Vital Strike progression.
I do like this ^_^
I feel if anything it should be wis to damage it has never made sense to me that it was dex, to me to hit harder with a gun one should know were to aim so for me this should be Wis not Dex.
I know many people have different interpretations and justifications for adding X ability modifier to Y ability or attack. However, I feel Dexterity makes the most sense. Dexterity is all about precise movements and quick reactions whereas Wisdom is mostly about willpower, faith, and intuition. You add Dexterity to damage for the same reason you use Dexterity for Disable Device, a skill that does require some intelligence and intuition. Dexterity also helps represent the advantage that firearms have over bows, only needing precise aim to be deadly rather than Strength or another ability. Finally, using a physical stat for damage prevents issues with classes that have to dump mental stats.
I guess im ok with this but even a solider in that time could make a mistake when packing down the powder in the heat of battle so a misfire should still occur.
A natural 1 is still an automatic miss. No need to penalize martials further. Besides, the misfire mechanic wasn't created by Paizo for realism. It was created to "balance" the broken touch attack mechanic.
I feel if anything it should be wis to damage it has never made sense to me that it was dex, to me to hit harder with a gun one should know were to aim so for me this should be Wis not Dex.I know many people have different interpretations and justifications for adding X ability modifier to Y ability or attack. However, I feel Dexterity makes the most sense. Dexterity is all about precise movements and quick reactions whereas Wisdom is mostly about willpower, faith, and intuition. You add Dexterity to damage for the same reason you use Dexterity for Disable Device, a skill that does require some intelligence and intuition. Dexterity also helps represent the advantage that firearms have over bows, only needing precise aim to be deadly rather than Strength or another ability. Finally, using a physical stat for damage prevents issues with classes that have to dump mental stats.
hmm...well i can see your point even though i hate it when players dump stats {i think thats why i would rather have it be wis then dex so i dont have players that cant see for crap but shoot well} gunslingers already should not dump wis since there goes your grit.
I guess im ok with this but even a solider in that time could make a mistake when packing down the powder in the heat of battle so a misfire should still occur.A natural 1 is still an automatic miss. No need to penalize martials further. Besides, the misfire mechanic wasn't created by Paizo for realism. It was created to "balance" the broken touch attack mechanic.
oh well if that was only used to try and make a balance for the touch ok
hay so im trying your rules out the only thing im changing is the have wis for damage not dex
Sure, let me know how that works out!