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Again, however, war hammers don't cost thousands of gold and have a chance to explode in your face. Leather or silk wouldn't protect from a sword all that well either.


ElementalXX wrote:
Nor Warhammers target touch ac. As i said before this is a case of selective realism that didnt go well

Warhammers also don't cost thousands of gold and have a chance to explode in your face, though. Also, I could be wrong as I've done no research, but I think there's more force behind a bullet at close range than someone swinging a warhammer.


I'm playing a Goblin Gunslinger/Alchemist. I went into it intending to shoot bombs from my gun for extra damage. From personal experience, bombs are just not very good. I do better damage with a full attack, even without dex to damage from five levels in Gunslinger(I only have 1 level of Gunslinger). Lately I've almost been feeling like the levels in alchemist are practically wasted. The best thing Alchemist has been bringing to my character is the 2nd level infusion, Alchemical Allocation. Being able to reuse a single, high level, potion of Magic Weapon and Magic Vestment is REALLY nice.


I think people's problem with firearms being at touch AC is that they think that the bullets pass through the armor. They don't. Think of it like this: Even if the bullet doesn't pass through the armor, it's going to pass the force of the blow through the armor, and it's going to hurt, ALOT. Possibly breaking bones, even without penetrating the armor. That's why they're only touch attacks in the first range increment, after the first range increment the bullets do not have the force behind them to hurt as much through armor.


Artanthos wrote:
ironexe wrote:

If they're worried about balancing dex to damage with a wider selection of weapons, wouldn't making it precision damage help? I kind of think it should be precision damage anyway. Strength helps damage because you're hitting harder, Dex would help damage because you'd be hitting more vulnerable areas.

Making it precision damage would pretty much make it useless.

You've just taken the people using high crit range weapons with a low base damage that they no longer get to double their stat bonus to damage when they crit.

If you want to see how painful this is, look at the rogue dual wielding agile daggers. A whole 1d4 added to damage when they crit.

I dunno, crits are so unreliable anyway that I don't feel like that's an issue. And if you are going for a crit build you're probably using scimitar's anyway and then you can use Dervish Dance. In fact, this method has the added benefit of not making the Dervish Dance feat obsolete.


Squiggit wrote:
Yeah, noticed the typo. Fixed it. Doesn't change the point though.

Your point is valid, but it still makes more sense for it to be precision damage.


Squiggit wrote:
Making it precision damage just makes everyone who relies on it terrible against undead, which ends up not helping anything.

The only things immune to precision damage are incorporeal creatures(unless you have a ghost touch weapon), Oozes, and Elementals. Oozes and Elementals are also immune to flanking for some reason. Not having a discernible anatomy shouldn't make it easier to split your attention in opposite directions.


If they're worried about balancing dex to damage with a wider selection of weapons, wouldn't making it precision damage help? I kind of think it should be precision damage anyway. Strength helps damage because you're hitting harder, Dex would help damage because you'd be hitting more vulnerable areas.


Rynjin wrote:
ironexe wrote:
Rynjin wrote:
But don't worry, you can still have an Unarmed Strike Dex based whosamawhatsit with Snake Style (Piercing).
How are you getting dex to damage on piercing unarmed strike?

Swashbuckler stuff. This is presuming you're going with the same idea of dipping Monk from Swash.

Two levels of MoMS and you can have Dragon/Snake going, and then focus on getting Precise Strike and whatnot online.

I don't see how Swashbuckler will get you dex to damage with unarmed strikes. Slashing Grace doesn't work on piercing weapons. You would have to make your unarmed strikes do slashing damage, but even then it wouldn't work, because Unarmed Strike is considered 'light'.


Rynjin wrote:
But don't worry, you can still have an Unarmed Strike Dex based whosamawhatsit with Snake Style (Piercing).

How are you getting dex to damage on piercing unarmed strike?


graystone wrote:
Unarmed attacks aren't one handed. They are light.

That "one handed" requirement is so stupid. They should either allow one handed AND light weapons, or remove weapon finesse from the requirements, since almost nobody will be able to apply both feats to their weapon. If it requires weapon finesse, then you should be able to get the benefit of weapon finesse and slashing grace at the same time.


Adamantine Dragon wrote:
WWWW wrote:
Adamantine Dragon wrote:

LOL, I forgot entirely about this thread. I love it whenever someone says "Well, this aspect of the game is troublesome for me because it makes no sense to me."

And the immediate response is "Dude! The game has frickin' DRAGONS in it! Dragons aren't real. Therefore your argument is invalid."

Sigh... Well, using that logic we may as well allow first level characters to carry around Federation matter/anti-matter converters so they can shoot planet-destroying lasers on demand. Got a problem with that?

Dude! The game has frickin' DRAGONS in it! Dragons aren't real. Therefore your argument is invalid.

LOL

Clearly a balance concern and a problem with "realism" (verisimilitude perhaps) are exactly the same thing.

Oh, so if the laser beam did d6+2 damage, then you'd be fine with it.

Gotcha.

I might be fine with it then. clearly it's magic, or an OOPArt.


I've only read to page 5 or so, so I don't know if this is still a topic people are hung up on about the rules for firearms but, just because firearms hit Touch AC doesn't mean they pierce through armor or put holes in them. They hit Touch AC because even if the bullet is stopped by the armor it's still going to hurt like hell. Even though modern bullet proof vests will stop a bullet from penetrating you, it won't stop it from bruising you black and blue and possibly breaking bones.

In essence, they hit Touch AC because even if the armor stops the bullet itself, the kinetic force still hurts ALOT.