What does it take to ride my Bee?


Rules Questions

Liberty's Edge

So, I'm building a Verminous Hunter, and I'm getting a Giant Wasp as a companion (but I'm saying it's a Giant Bumble Bee, because I hate wasps). As a gnome, I should be able to ride it, but what does that take?
Do I have to teach it a bunch of tricks or something? Because I really want to be able to fly at level one, and a lot of people have said that I can, but I don't know how. Can someone help me out with this?


Brom the Obnoxiously Awesome wrote:

So, I'm building a Verminous Hunter, and I'm getting a Giant Wasp as a companion (but I'm saying it's a Giant Bumble Bee, because I hate wasps). As a gnome, I should be able to ride it, but what does that take?

Do I have to teach it a bunch of tricks or something? Because I really want to be able to fly at level one, and a lot of people have said that I can, but I don't know how. Can someone help me out with this?

Here are the rules for Handle Animal. Scroll down to the part about 'train for a purpose', and it will tell you which tricks you would need for riding (come, heel, and stay, if you must know). You can also upgrade it to combat trained later on when you have enough room/time for more tricks

Since vermin have no intelligence (And I assume that ACG didn't give your archetype any special rules to change what I am about to say; check, and maybe ask someone that actually has ACG to make sure), then they can only use the one plus bonus tricks they get as animal companions. You can increase the number of tricks they can know by increasing their Int (the ability score adjustment at 4 HD can do this). Animals can learn 3 tricks per point of INT (this doesn't include the bonus tricks you get from it being an animal companion; you don't even need to teach it those tricks)

Since it is your AC, you can also spend a move action in order to push it to do a trick it hasn't been taught. Not too bad if you are going for mounted charges, I guess. I am not an expert on mounted combat, so someone else can give some advise about how viable pushing is.

I am also going to leave :this link for the animal companion rules. Be sure to check out the link ability and bonus tricks to learn more about all this. It also has the rules for vermin companions, if you want to review over that as well.


Well, there's the Demon Mother's M--oh, that ride. Yeah, what lemeres said is correct. Pushing isn't usually viable, mostly because no one can agree on what the mounted combat rules are. Talk to your DM.

Liberty's Edge

oh, so I'll just have to wait perhaps. Oh well. i wouldn't be charging much, just flying.
Thanks Lemeres.


okay took a bit but I found a way to do it at lvl 1 you need the spells war-train mount and possibly ant haul (not sure on flying with medium encumbrance).

anyways cast war-train mount on the wasp (this may not work check with your DM before doing it). if this does not work probably have to wait to lvl 3.

ant haul would be to get out of the whole can you have a mount fly with medium encumbrance

on a side not please tell me you plan on using the hunter favored class option for the gnome.

Liberty's Edge

alternis sol wrote:

okay took a bit but I found a way to do it at lvl 1 you need the spells war-train mount and possibly ant haul (not sure on flying with medium encumbrance).

anyways cast war-train mount on the wasp (this may not work check with your DM before doing it). if this does not work probably have to wait to lvl 3.

ant haul would be to get out of the whole can you have a mount fly with medium encumbrance

on a side not please tell me you plan on using the hunter favored class option for the gnome.

Oh goodness thank you! Wow!

I was all prepared just to have a Roc, but this could be awesome.

On the Gnome FCB bonus, your animal companion gets DR/Magic. 1 DR at level 1, and then 1/2 per level after that. That's a great bonus. Sure, enemies can use magic, but more often than not, they'll just be trying to hit it with weapons. My level 3, I can have DR 2/Magic for my Animal companion. That's awesome!!!

Grand Lodge

Wartrain Mount does not work as Vermin are not Animals.

You will have to wait for level 3 minimum.

There IS another option but it has a lot more requirements and still may take till level 3.

An Aasimar Hunter with the Celestial Servant feat can put a Bridle of Tricks (Knights of the Inner Sea) on there AC do to it becoming a Magical Beast. (In PFS you need to train the extra slots feat for the head.)

Oh, and you need the new feat Undersized Mount for the Medium Aasimar to ride the Medium sized Wasp, which is why it still takes to level 3. If your GM allows Small sized Aasimars you don't need that feat.

On a side note, a Medium sized creature can now ride a Roc at level 1 with the Undersized Mount feat, subject only to Weight restrictions, so Ant Haul is probably going to be needed anyway.


just make sure your GM doesn't have a problem with the war-train mount. like i said iffy up to GM approval.

I'd also like to point out that you can take the divine hunter with verminous hunter to get celestial or fiendish templates.

the other interesting thing you can do with with a divine verminous hunter is get a colossal wasp if you go all the way to mythic. strength domain(enlarge person)->lvl 7(large, huge)->mammoth rider(huge,gargantuan)->mythic enlarge person(huge,gargantuan,colossal).

the hunter is by far my favorite class from the ACG.

Grand Lodge

Did not even think about that with Divine Hunter. I also didn't see they were combinable.

Now looking at it closer...


verminous alters hunter animal focus and limits your companion choices
divine hunter changes hunter tactics and teamwork feats.

so by Raw the should be combinable I can see a GM having a problem with otherworldly companion and verminous companion.

Grand Lodge

I also just found another feat to help you. Vermin Heart. It allows you to cast spells that target Animals on Vermin. This would allow you to use Wartrain Mount on the Wasp.

Oh, and the Celestial Template for Divine Hunter doesn't happen till level 3.


true the template doesn't kick-in until lvl 3 but it is still pretty darn nice to add to gnome favored class option and worm focus(fast healing).
and that would take care of the whole vermin mindless bit, completely missed that feat when I went through the feat section.

Brom I apologize for the semi-random side tangents I added.

Grand Lodge

So, I think the current solution is the Vermin Heart feat plus Wartrain Mount and Ant Haul spells.

Liberty's Edge

Drake Brimstone wrote:
So, I think the current solution is the Vermin Heart feat plus Wartrain Mount and Ant Haul spells.

Sounds great. I'll see if I can pick up an early wand, because I am a limited spontaneous caster, and that's pretty much all my spells at level one. Though, admitedly as a gnome, I don't weigh much. If I drop off extra crap, I'm sure he can carry me. Maybe. I might have to just Summon Natures ally. Or something. I don't know, I wasn't planning on flying much, I just liked the idea of being able to.

Liberty's Edge

Drake Brimstone wrote:

Did not even think about that with Divine Hunter. I also didn't see they were combinable.

Now looking at it closer...

How come I need the divine hunter archetype? I don't think the celestial template is that great? Is there something I don't know about it?


no you don't need divine hunter but you can take it with verminous hunter which allows you to create a colossal wasp if you go all the way to mythic. strength domain(enlarge person)->lvl 7(large, huge)->mammoth rider(huge,gargantuan)->mythic enlarge person(huge,gargantuan,colossal).

as for riding without ant haul pretty much limits you to a weapon and clothes due to the wasp having a strength score of 12 with bull animal focus giving it a light load of 43lb. admittedly a gnome can manage this i suggest avoiding ranged attacks if possible.

Grand Lodge

The idea behind the Divine Hunter is making your Wasp a Magical Beast, when the Celestial or Fiendish template is applied, thus allowing your AC to use the Bridle of Tricks to get the needed tricks for riding.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

Here are my solutions:

Evolved Companion (mount evolution): That evolution says "An eidolon is properly skilled and formed to serve as a combat-trained mount" Properly skilled as a combat trained mount would be Combat Training (DC 20) An animal trained to bear a rider into combat knows the tricks attack, come, defend, down, guard, and heel.

A war saddle (5,000 gp, Knights of the inner sea) would give it combat training also.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

animal soul then casting wartrain mount on yourself with improved share spell could also work.

Grand Lodge

Re-Reading the Divine Hunter, unfortunately they don't become Magical Beasts with this Archetype.

War Saddles are only for Animals and Magical Beasts, unfortunately only Aasimar's with Celestial Companion can make their ACs Magical Beasts as far as I know.

Evolved Companion with the Mount evolution sounds like a VERY good way to go about it. I wasn't thinking of it in part because I play PFS and it isn't PFS legal. (Nor is Animal Soul)

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