Half-Fiend Template


Rules Questions


I have a question on behalf of a fledgling DM - Can you slap the half-fiend template on a demon, devil, or other type of fiend as a sort of advancement?This would probably be in addition to increasing the creatures hit dice.


Any reason you don't want to just slap the advanced template on them?


Caius wrote:
Any reason you don't want to just slap the advanced template on them?

I believe the reason for giving the creature the half-fiend template is to give it additional powers/abilities (including smite good) to use against the party who are over geared for the normal garden variety versions of anything thrown their way of their CR.


Tell him to just put the template on it, wether it it can by the rules or not. Or just give the creature smite evil as an equal level paladin.

Also, from the half-fiend rules, we have this: “Half-fiend” is an inherited or acquired template that can be added to a living, corporeal creature with an Int score of 4 or more. A half-fiend uses all the base creature's statistics and special abilities except as noted here.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

RAW seems to indicate that it can be added to any corporeal, living being with an INT score of 4 or more.

RAI seems to indicate that it can't be added to someone that is already a full blooded, non-native outsider since it changes the creature type to native outsider.

It would be an easy way to slap a half-fiend template onto an evil outsider (calling it "superior template" rather than "advanced template), so long as you don't tell the players the new creature is a "half-fiend succubus". Call it a "superior template succubus" instead.


KestrelZ wrote:

RAW seems to indicate that it can be added to any corporeal, living being with an INT score of 4 or more.

RAI seems to indicate that it can't be added to someone that is already a full blooded, non-native outsider since it changes the creature type to native outsider.

It would be an easy way to slap a half-fiend template onto an evil outsider (calling it "superior template" rather than "advanced template), so long as you don't tell the players the new creature is a "half-fiend succubus". Call it a "superior template succubus" instead.

Don't tell the players any such thing! If they ask how the succubus is doing the stuff it is doing, simply describe it as looking slightly different and that it is a special succubus and have adjusted CR as appropriate. The players don't need to know exactly how you did what you did.


My thoughts exactly. If they figure it out(expect reflexive Knowledge checks), meh, more power to them. But if they don't... the encounter us much more memorable, yes?


Azten wrote:
My thoughts exactly. If they figure it out(expect reflexive Knowledge checks), meh, more power to them. But if they don't... the encounter us much more memorable, yes?

Exactly. I've seen groups get super excited about a combat against an orc that simply had some of the quick templates from the bestiary on top of it. I get more excited about fights against monsters if I don't know exactly what they can do because it always add that worry factor, so I love it when my GMs add strange monsters and/or modifies common monsters.


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DragonMunchie wrote:
I have a question on behalf of a fledgling DM - Can you slap the half-fiend template on a demon, devil, or other type of fiend as a sort of advancement?This would probably be in addition to increasing the creatures hit dice.

Yes you can.

For that matter, you can add the Half-Dragon template to dragons to create a Half-Black Dragon White Dragon (a grey dragon? or a dalmatian dragon?), or use the Half-Celestial template to model the offspring of a Solar and Planatar angel couple.


I love the idea of a half-dragon dragon. Thank you very much for that!


Hmmm... What happens if a dragon with vulnerability to an element becomes half-dragon of a dragon type with immunity to the element?


Lifat wrote:
Hmmm... What happens if a dragon with vulnerability to an element becomes half-dragon of a dragon type with immunity to the element?

Then it takes 150% of 0 damage from that element, making it 0.


Lifat wrote:
Hmmm... What happens if a dragon with vulnerability to an element becomes half-dragon of a dragon type with immunity to the element?

I'm betting on a TPK... (evil grin)


Ipslore the Red wrote:
Lifat wrote:
Hmmm... What happens if a dragon with vulnerability to an element becomes half-dragon of a dragon type with immunity to the element?
Then it takes 150% of 0 damage from that element, making it 0.

That was my thought aswell. Seems a bit evil, but then again, the dragons with elemental vulnerability are slightly weaker than the other dragons.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Ipslore the Red wrote:
Lifat wrote:
Hmmm... What happens if a dragon with vulnerability to an element becomes half-dragon of a dragon type with immunity to the element?
Then it takes 150% of 0 damage from that element, making it 0.

A standard dragon can do the same thing by casting Protection from Energy on itself.


Jeraa wrote:
DragonMunchie wrote:
I have a question on behalf of a fledgling DM - Can you slap the half-fiend template on a demon, devil, or other type of fiend as a sort of advancement?This would probably be in addition to increasing the creatures hit dice.

Yes you can.

For that matter, you can add the Half-Dragon template to dragons to create a Half-Black Dragon White Dragon (a grey dragon? or a dalmatian dragon?), or use the Half-Celestial template to model the offspring of a Solar and Planatar angel couple.

If you wanted to make it even more powerful(and kind of silly), you could also add the Half-Fiend or Half-Celestial templates as well, for a Half-Fiend/Celestial Half-Black Dragon White Dragon.


Stacking templates has always been horribly unbalanced. Sure, I can make a CR 9 feral, hungry, enraged, advanced, giant, 1/2 white dragon, 1/2 fiend wyrmling red dragon with 53 strength, but I would never put that monstrosity in a real game.

If players had general access to templates I think there would be a general max of one template per creature, but since it's mostly a DM tool hopefully some common sense will prevail.


Nothing wrote:

Stacking templates has always been horribly unbalanced. Sure, I can make a CR 9 feral, hungry, enraged, advanced, giant, 1/2 white dragon, 1/2 fiend wyrmling red dragon with 53 strength, but I would never put that monstrosity in a real game.

If players had general access to templates I think there would be a general max of one template per creature, but since it's mostly a DM tool hopefully some common sense will prevail.

Screw common sense! TPK's FTW!!! :D

But generally speaking yeah... Just because you can legally make a crazy monster for its CR, it is a good idea to compare it to the tables for the CR and see if it is fair.


Fools. You don't get a Half Dragon Dragon. Or a Half Fiend Fiend.

No, you get a Half Dragon, Half Fiend, Half Celestial, Vampire Lich Wizard 20 Tarrasque!

Just don't do it unless you've decided Rocks Fall, Everyone Dies. Because a monster like that WOULD TPK the party.


You forgot Advanced, Animal Lord and Worm That Walks, Lego. Oh, and Grave Knight. Now we've got our Big Bad Evil...Thing. And it's Mythic 10.


CrystalSpellblade wrote:
You forgot Advanced, Animal Lord and Worm That Walks, Lego. Oh, and Grave Knight. Now we've got our Big Bad Evil...Thing. And it's Mythic 10.

Drats. . . Very true, should we make it a Gestalt Cleric 20 as well? Just to make sure the players don't just steamroll the encounter meant to TPK them.

On topic: Like the others have said previously, you're the DM, you can do it.

Also Fun Fact: Outsiders are viable targets for the Vampire Template.


Legowaffles wrote:
CrystalSpellblade wrote:
You forgot Advanced, Animal Lord and Worm That Walks, Lego. Oh, and Grave Knight. Now we've got our Big Bad Evil...Thing. And it's Mythic 10.

Drats. . . Very true, should we make it a Gestalt Cleric 20 as well? Just to make sure the players don't just steamroll the encounter meant to TPK them.

On topic: Like the others have said previously, you're the DM, you can do it.

Also Fun Fact: Outsiders are viable targets for the Vampire Template.

There's a vampire succubus in the Moonscar.


Ipslore the Red wrote:
Legowaffles wrote:
CrystalSpellblade wrote:
You forgot Advanced, Animal Lord and Worm That Walks, Lego. Oh, and Grave Knight. Now we've got our Big Bad Evil...Thing. And it's Mythic 10.

Drats. . . Very true, should we make it a Gestalt Cleric 20 as well? Just to make sure the players don't just steamroll the encounter meant to TPK them.

On topic: Like the others have said previously, you're the DM, you can do it.

Also Fun Fact: Outsiders are viable targets for the Vampire Template.

There's a vampire succubus in the Moonscar.

I read about that in the Succubus in a Grapple thread. Found it impossible, so I immediately went looking for the Template, which simply specifies that the target must be a living creature with 5 or more HD. I was shocked.

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