Why don't we take peoples guns away for public safety then?
Many cities do this very thing. Or at least they used to... not so sure now after that supreme court case ruled it illegal.
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I'd like to see the hard evidence of gunfire at police along with the hard evidence of two dozen police cars being burned/destroyed along with the hard evidence of molotov cocktails. No statements to press or pictures, I'm talking a live feed. The Ferguson pd has lost all credibility with me, they are relying too heavily on their word as police officers and not providing anything else. I trust them about as much as I trust a politician.This. We get better footage from Iraq and Isreal than we are getting from Ferguson.
Incidentally I believe the cop was justified in the shooting but that the response from both sides is unacceptable. Looting and rioting isn't how you protest. Throwing things at the police isn't how you protest. Police taking a hardline and helping escalate the tension isn't how you handle a protest either but when violence escalates on one side and the other's reaction is to up the ante you are only going to keep increasing the level of escalation. Someone needs to step back and reign in the violence.
Jesse and Al are gonna be here to help get everyone rational soon....
AL has already been there. And I'm going to wait on declaring this man innocent or guilty, the Ferguson pd has already been caught in one lie in that they doctored the tape to show that he didn't pay for the cigars when he actually did. They have no credibility with me.
I haven't, alas, been able to follow the news as closely as I would like this past week--busy with Anklebiter clan shiznit mostly--so I hadn't yet seen any Cornel West commentary.
Cornel West on Missouri: "Obama reeks of political calculation not moral conviction" - Newsnight
Hee hee! I haven't even finished watching it yet and I already love it. Had me at "Obama reeks."
cornel west....*sigh* what a zagnut.
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Sorry, you can't break the law as a way of protesting the police. You follow the legal rules in place to protest or you risk being treated as...GASP...a criminal.
considering a sizable portion of a previous generation to me broke those laws to ensure that I could eat at the same establishment you do and use the same bathroom, your appeal to law and order here falls on suspicious ears.
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There is a difference between civil disobedience and a legal protest, yet you guys refuse to see that there is a difference. The police are responding to people who are violating the law, not peaceful protesters. Once the protest becomes disorderly, and starts turning into a mob-mentality the police have tried to peacefully stop it by trying to get the crowds to disperse....this is met with the crowd getting even more rowdy and then the police take the next step, followed by the crowd, etc.... These aren't peaceful, innocent protesters being gassed they are a group of people that has become too disorderly and angry and are progressing into violence being told to disperse and go home by police trying to protect the general public and then the protesters continue upping the response. Grab some signs and march in front of the courthouse. Don't lob bottles and other nonsense at officers trying to keep a mob from becoming violent.
But I get it....it's cooler to say the Pigs are wrong no matter what and that the "activists" are the good guys standing up for a just cause. In this case I don't see that. I see a bunch of opportunists trying to goad a race war on.
A 4 time felon charged a cop and got shot down.
A 4 time felon ran from a cop and was murdered for no reason because the officer never even knew about the robbery in the area.Which one is more believable. One has a couple friends of the 4 time felon saying "he didn't do anything" and the other has a couple people who don't know the officer or the 4 time felon who say they saw him come at the cop.
Hmmmmm....
Yup, clear case of the police being Black-killing Pigs.
As I said above, the Ferguson pd have lied at least once. I would hesitate to give them the benefit of the doubt in this, as it is suspicious. Moreover , every person who has linked up "Michael Brown's arrest record" had been linking up to another Michael Brown (the I only way this could have been worse is if his name was John Doe) or have put up links to an erroneous Facebook page. The most recent person to so this was a cop in Missouri, who may be fired for it as he put up a picture of someone who is a suspect in another case and claimed it was Michael Brown. Ferguson pd, again, has lost all credibility with me. I do not trust them a whit.
Is there anything that would make it sound suspicious to you, or so you defend the police until something hard comes up?
Not quite sure what a zagnut is, I look to Urban Dictionary.
Learn new things every day in the OTD!
SD Police Say Tazing 8-Year-Old Native Girl Was Justified, Family Sues
More fun with policing America's internal colonies.
AL has already been there. And I'm going to wait on declaring this man innocent or guilty, the Ferguson pd has already been caught in one lie in that they doctored the tape to show that he didn't pay for the cigars when he actually did. They have no credibility with me.That's not at all clear. Watching that clip, it's possible, but I really can't tell what's going on.
And did they actually doctor the tape? Where did the other version come from?
OTOH, this is the same department that charged a man for bleeding on their uniforms when they beat him up, so I wouldn't put anything past them.
I'm surprised you haven't seen it yet. it's all over Facebook. I'll see if I can get a link later.
SD Police Say Tazing 8-Year-Old Native Girl Was Justified, Family Sues
More fun with policing America's internal colonies.
i appreciate the link, DA, but let's try to keep this focused on this case.
Goblins have short attention spans.
Anyway, Comrade BeeNee, I asked my commie buddy and he said he got the image off of Boing Boing, a site that I am not familiar with. I popped on over but didn't see it in the three or so minutes that I spent looking for it.
I'm surprised you haven't seen it yet. it's all over Facebook. I'll see if I can get a link later.AL has already been there. And I'm going to wait on declaring this man innocent or guilty, the Ferguson pd has already been caught in one lie in that they doctored the tape to show that he didn't pay for the cigars when he actually did. They have no credibility with me.That's not at all clear. Watching that clip, it's possible, but I really can't tell what's going on.
And did they actually doctor the tape? Where did the other version come from?
OTOH, this is the same department that charged a man for bleeding on their uniforms when they beat him up, so I wouldn't put anything past them.
I've seen the clip that supposedly shows him paying for it, but it's not at all clear to me what's happening.
The resolution isn't enough for me to see what's being handed back and forth.I haven't seen anything claiming the video was doctored by the police. Other than some early debunked claims that it was months old.
ok. Maybe I'm putting things the wrong way- the police showed only the last few moments of another video (different vantage point) to make it look as if he picked up cigars and choked the clerk. From the other viewpoint, you can clearly see him paying and knocking something over, picking up stuff from the floor, and the pushing the guy out of his way as he leaves. Hardly a robbery as the police stated before.
Now if you're willing to take the cases to court, you might, MIGHT, be able to convince someone worthwhile that your right to protest was subverted by police because they didn't like what you were saying, but that's 6 months + down the road and gods know how much in lawyer fees, at which point someone in the police department gets a couple hours sensitivity and/or riot training.
You can easily get a lawyer to do that kind of thing pro bono.
Step One on the road to a successful career as a commie rabble-rouser: Get to know somebody in the NLG.
There is a difference between civil disobedience and a legal protest, yet you guys refuse to see that there is a difference. The police are responding to people who are violating the law, not peaceful protesters. Once the protest becomes disorderly, and starts turning into a mob-mentality the police have tried to peacefully stop it by trying to get the crowds to disperse....this is met with the crowd getting even more rowdy and then the police take the next step, followed by the crowd, etc.... These aren't peaceful, innocent protesters being gassed they are a group of people that has become too disorderly and angry and are progressing into violence being told to disperse and go home by police trying to protect the general public and then the protesters continue upping the response. Grab some signs and march in front of the courthouse. Don't lob bottles and other nonsense at officers trying to keep a mob from becoming violent.
But I get it....it's cooler to say the Pigs are wrong no matter what and that the "activists" are the good guys standing up for a just cause. In this case I don't see that. I see a bunch of opportunists trying to goad a race war on.
A 4 time felon charged a cop and got shot down.
A 4 time felon ran from a cop and was murdered for no reason because the officer never even knew about the robbery in the area.Which one is more believable. One has a couple friends of the 4 time felon saying "he didn't do anything" and the other has a couple people who don't know the officer or the 4 time felon who say they saw him come at the cop.
Hmmmmm....
Yup, clear case of the police being Black-killing Pigs.
no, it's a rather murky case where people have made outlandish statements and actions on both sides. This needs to be investigated fully. No cops hiding behind their shields as they have already doctored evidence once, and even if they haven't (giving them the benefit of the doubt), their actions as riot police and in undermining each others authority(local cop vs highway cop) makes them suspect. No innocent protestors trying to have their voices heard as there has already been looting and fires (i am not buying molotov cocktails yet). Both sides have ducked up. Badly. A third party is going to have to get involved here. Everyone else is going to have to go to neutral corners.
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And I'm going to wait on declaring this man innocent or guilty, the Ferguson pd has already been caught in one lie in that they doctored the tape to show that he didn't pay for the cigars when he actually did. They have no credibility with me.
They also:
* Claimed a robbery report was filed by the store owners when in fact there was no report filed
* Claimed that a bystander in the store was the owner, when in fact the bystander was "a customer who called the police," according to the store owners
* Confiscated the surveillance tapes (apparently) without a warrant
* Proceeded to edit those tapes for release to the media, completely removing multiple camera angles that would contradict their claims
* Released the tapes in violation of an order from the DOJ to not do so, again, to bolster their claims
* Actively tear-gassed citizens on residential property who were in their back yards observing the scene. Not actively protesting. Standing in their yards.
There's circumstantial evidence to show that the Ferguson PD are also fabricating and falsifying evidence in regards to the supposed molotov cocktails and arson tools.
The list goes on.
Again, opinions vs. facts. And the facts in this case are systematically stripping away any credibility and legitimate authority held by the Ferguson PD.
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FH, your thoughts?
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You seriously think people are facing down police, tanks, machine guns, sniper rifles, and a literal army because of journalistic spin?
Yeah, right.
These people have a LIFETIME of anger at the police harrasing them. They're not "allowed" in certain neighborhoods, they're not allowed out after midnight or the police start searching them.
You do not get ticked off enough to say " bring on the tear gas" from a 30 minute news special.
...the Ferguson pd has already been caught in one lie in that they doctored the tape to show that he didn't pay for the cigars when he actually did. They have no credibility with me.
From Monday night (the 18th), CNN's Jake Tapper interviewed Capt. Johnson: "#Ferguson Capt Johnson just said to @JakeTapper 'we didnt use tear gas, just smokebombs'.Tapper: 'Yes you did,we got gassed'.Capt: ok we did" I can't tell if they're deliberately keeping Johnson out of the loop (and setting him up for scapegoating) or pressuring him to maintain the Blue Code of Silence.
Not to defend the Ferguson PD, but there's a lot of hearsay floating around.
1) I haven't seen this claim. Is there still no report filed?
2) Again, I haven't heard the claim, though it is apparently true that a customer called 911. I have heard that the owner did confirm the robbery after the fact.
3) "Confiscated" is a strong word. They can take the tapes without a warrant if they have the owner's permission. I'd assume that's standard practice in robbery cases.
4) That's more only releasing one of the tapes than of editing I'd assume. It's also not at all clear that the other angles actually contradict their claims, though they do cast some doubt.
5) As far as I know, it was against the advice of the DOJ. The DOJ doesn't have the authority to order.
6) Got nothing to say about that.And I'd add: Harassing, threatening and arresting journalists.
In that order...
1) To the best of my ability to find, no, there has still not been a report filed. The gist I've gotten from the sources on the topic is that the theft was so petty the owners just considered it a wash.
2) A customer called 911. The police report of the officer who responded to the call said he was called by the business. It's possible he was confused, or the dispatcher was confused, but the written report does I believe state that he was reporting to a call from the business.
3) You're right, and although the statement currently available from the store owner reads more like "they told us they needed the tapes" and not "They showed up and had a warrant for the tapes" I'll admit I could be conflating and seeing correlation where there is none. Sorry about that.
4) You could be right, but all the footage I've seen has been clearly edited on the angles shown - now either the media is doing that to punch it up (unlikely, given the nature of the thing), or the Ferguson PD lucked out and got some of the jumpiest tapes available, or there was editing done. I'm not discounting what you're saying, but I do feel there is some legitimate doubt here.
5) I had read "ordered" while doing my research, but given the nature of the thing, that could also be a false flag. I'll go back and review.
6) Yeah, it's really hard to say anything about that that doesn't end up with me shaking my head and wondering who's watching the watchers.
And yeah, like I brought up on the previous page, "actively aggressive protestors" and "docile journalists recharging their phone in a McDonalds" really ought to look nothing alike.
Here's what appears to be a copy of the police report on the theft.
Do you mean something else by "No report filed", since you mention the police report about the 911 call?
ce report[/url] on the theft.
I mean a robbery report, not a reporting-officer police report. The officer responding filed an incident report, that you linked.
I'm at work so my ability to go surfing for info is limited, but I did find this from the local news station:
Store Owners talk about surveillance released. It would appear that a warrant was issued after the fact. They reiterate that no employee made the call.
I can't verify my previous statement at this time, so for now please consider it retracted. I don't want to add to any misinformation spreading on this topic.
Has any evidence surfaced on the cop being injured? Pro-choice sources say he had anything from a black eye to a missing eye to a cracked orbital brim the fight that broke out in or near the car.
But a customer made the call. Who made the call is kind of irrelevant in figuring out whether the cop thought he was dealing with a jay walker or a store robber.
A police officer from L.A. has some advice for protestors:
"Even though it might sound harsh and impolitic, here is the bottom line: if you don’t want to get shot, tased, pepper-sprayed, struck with a baton or thrown to the ground, just do what I tell you," he writes. "Don’t argue with me, don’t call me names, don’t tell me that I can’t stop you, don’t say I’m a racist pig, don’t threaten that you’ll sue me and take away my badge. Don’t scream at me that you pay my salary, and don’t even think of aggressively walking towards me. Most field stops are complete in minutes. How difficult is it to cooperate for that long?"
Here's the full article: Washington Post: "I’m a cop. If you don’t want to get hurt, don’t challenge me."
And a response: Simple Justice: "Cooperate Doesn't Mean What You Think It Does"
Indeed, a lot of what Dutta says sounds more like "obey or die" and less "please cooperate".
Has any evidence surfaced on the cop being injured? Pro-choice sources say he had anything from a black eye to a missing eye to a cracked orbital brim the fight that broke out in or near the car.
Some sources seem to say that the officer suffered an "orbital blowout."
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Indeed, a lot of what Dutta says sounds more like "obey or die" and less "please cooperate".
It's pretty much what I took to heart from reading The Anarchist's Cookbook.
I put both of my hands out of my driver's side door window any time I'm pulled over and await instructions.
My aim is to get to the bottom of the gravity well and cover my head if need be, but I acknowledge that being middle aged, caucasian, and I'm never even inebriated in public or up to anything [edit}any more[edit....damn I was a mess in my youth], so it usually doesn't come to that.
My dad (being the same thing....old white guy out and out and about at midnite with insomnia) had some trouble once, though, because he refused orders to place his saxophone down on the concrete. To my father, "put that thing down" means "stop blowing in it and leave it hanging on your neck," instead of "put this thousands of dollars musical instrument down on the concrete..." so......the cop got kinda dicky with him.
So he filed a complaint. Any time a cop is a dick, file a complaint. If the cop is a real dick, the complaints add up.
Conversely, if you catch a cop being really cool, file a thank you letter. That way he can get some stripes on his arm and be in charge of the other guys.
contrast
"You don't have to submit to an illegal stop or search, but you probably should in order not to get shot, beaten or tased" is a consistent point.