Goblin Squad Member
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Yes, griefing. If I am a cleric and an iconographer I would take my smallholding to a likely wilderness hex to gather essences, primarily.
In another thread on these boards you asked how we could transport great quantities of resources back to our settlement if encumbered. The answer is to have a place to store those resources, then dedicate a few trips at capacity back home.
If I am in the process of transporting the fruits of my labor back to my settlement and your outfit wipes out my stored essences then yes, it is like griefing. If my smallholding can endure long enough for you to let me know you are taking the hex I have a chance to ask you for a couple of hours to get my stuff out of there. But if you can wipe me out before I even have a chance to secure my goods then it is, I think, a form of griefing. And you would be griefing the bandit in the next hex, lying in wait for me even as we speak.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If you get wiped out, that isn't even remotely griefing, someone could have wanted your resources, you could have been on someone's property, or someone might have just wanted your gear, and took the rest.
It takes hours to clear a hex, so far, as we have seen in game, so you would have at least then, and perhaps an add on to the idea, is that said small holding gets a eviction notice.
To be honest, what you are suggesting, sounds more like using a Base Camp rather than a small holding.
I didn't understand your last sentence.
TEO is not my personal supply of votes, I make ideas, and let who ever is signed on to Ideascale vote.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Killing me and taking my essences isn't griefing because I had opportunity to defend. A snap of the fingers and Cheatle wants to be able to evaporate the resources I took hours or days to gather without any effort greater than it would have taken to take control of the hex had the smallholding not been there, probably less because I had to be tending the escalations in order to harvest in the first place.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Like I said, you would know if someone was clearing a hex, and you would know if someone is creating a PoI. If you wanted to be there so bad, you should have taken the Hex, instead of planted a small holding.
PoI has more authority, than a Small holding. The only thing I could see happening is some sort of eviction notice. The main reasoning behind this conversation, on my part, is to stop exploitation, and to give an out until Siege Mechancis are in game.
If you aren't an enemy of the group taking the Hex, then they will probably talk to you and work something out, my specific focus is on enemies.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Like I said, you would know if someone was clearing a hex, and you would know if someone is creating a PoI. If you wanted to be there so bad, you should have taken the Hex, instead of planted a small holding.
PoI has more authority, than a Small holding. The only thing I could see happening is some sort of eviction notice. The main reasoning behind this conversation, on my part, is to stop exploitation, and to give an out until Siege Mechancis are in game.
If you aren't an enemy of the group taking the Hex, then they will probably talk to you and work something out, my specific focus is on enemies.
I should hope so. But simply clearing the hex with a raid of players and making the claim on the hex should not automatically give you an option to despawn my holding. I'd rather the small holdings were withheld from release until siege weapons are introduced than that.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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A team of individuals working in coordination should beat a gaggle of dependents any day of the week. Your 90% of content may be 10% percent of mine. Values vary between individuals.
What do you mean by "Dependents"; obviously it's something other than "people who have to work together to reach their goal", which is the common language usage.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Basic problem: As far as we know, cash store smallholdings are scheduled to enter the game before A) the crafted equivalent, and B) the means to destroy them.
That's why Cheatle is taking about a requirement to spend hundreds of dollars. Until crafted structures that occupy the same land slots as smallholdings enter the game, there is no way for anyone to preemptively fill those land slots without spending hundreds of dollars (or spending piles of in-game gold to buy them from somebody who spent hundreds of dollars).
I hope that GW will prevent this problem by making sure that a player-crafted item that fills the same land slot enters the game at the same time as the cash-store smallholdings.
I have no opinion in the individual land holder vs. company/settlement debate. I'm only worried about the possibility that cash-store smallholdings will, for some period of time, be the only way to occupy a particular land slot.
Note: There has to be a better term than "land slot", but I can't think of any right now.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Note: There has to be a better term than "land slot", but I can't think of any right now.
I was thinking the same thing, lol.
Too much terminology is rather close sounding, using same words, I can't wait for them to sit down and finalize a lot of their terminology, and get clear and concise definitions.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Killing me and taking my essences isn't griefing because I had opportunity to defend. A snap of the fingers and Cheatle wants to be able to evaporate the resources I took hours or days to gather without any effort greater than it would have taken to take control of the hex had the smallholding not been there, probably less because I had to be tending the escalations in order to harvest in the first place.
Days? You want to be able to have perfectly secure unattended wilderness storage that lasts for days, even when contested?
I doubt that smallholdings will provide secure storage. I think that it is far more likely that others will be able to take your stuff from the building unless there is someone to stop them.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Note: There has to be a better term than "land slot", but I can't think of any right now.
I was thinking the same thing, lol.
Too much terminology is rather close sounding, using same words, I can't wait for them to sit down and finalize a lot of their terminology, and get clear and concise definitions.
Agreed.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Dependents are individuals who do not guide themselves, nor who think for themselves, but instead rely on others to provide them both their goals and the means to those goals. And those others who do provide those goals and the means to those goals depend upon their followers for self-esteem.
A team of individuals who can think for themselves should usually be more adaptable to changing conditions and respond to changes in the environment than those who rely on others for direction.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Killing me and taking my essences isn't griefing because I had opportunity to defend. A snap of the fingers and Cheatle wants to be able to evaporate the resources I took hours or days to gather without any effort greater than it would have taken to take control of the hex had the smallholding not been there, probably less because I had to be tending the escalations in order to harvest in the first place.Days? You want to be able to have perfectly secure unattended wilderness storage that lasts for days, even when contested?
the scenario was that Cheatle's people run in wipe out the escalation and claim the hex. He wants to remove my smallholding without further effort. I (and those of my settlement) might have been harvesting there in the wilderness far longer than days with no sign of contest other than escalations.
I doubt that smallholdings will provide secure storage. I think that it is far more likely that others will be able to take your stuff from the building unless there is someone to stop them.
I didn't expect to be alone in all this. I just own the smallholding. Of course the storage in the smallholding would be accessible to others, perhaps in my settlement, perhaps in my group. Probably anyone who could bind there. That isn't really secure storage, save that it cannot be simply despawned by others unless it isn't maintained.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Dependents are individuals who do not guide themselves, nor who think for themselves, but instead rely on others to provide them both their goals and the means to those goals. And those others who do provide those goals and the means to those goals depend upon their followers for self-esteem.
A team of individuals who can think for themselves should usually be more adaptable to changing conditions and respond to changes in the environment than those who rely on others for direction.
That's not how you've been using it.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Killing me and taking my essences isn't griefing because I had opportunity to defend. A snap of the fingers and Cheatle wants to be able to evaporate the resources I took hours or days to gather without any effort greater than it would have taken to take control of the hex had the smallholding not been there, probably less because I had to be tending the escalations in order to harvest in the first place.Days? You want to be able to have perfectly secure unattended wilderness storage that lasts for days, even when contested?the scenario was that Cheatle's people run in wipe out the escalation and claim the hex. He wants to remove my smallholding without further effort. I (and those of my settlement) might have been harvesting there in the wilderness far longer than days with no sign of contest other than escalations.
I didn't expect to be alone in all this. I just own the smallholding. Of course the storage in the smallholding would be accessible to others, perhaps in my settlement, perhaps in my group. Probably anyone who could bind there. That isn't really secure storage, save that it cannot be simply despawned by others unless it isn't maintained.
I doubt that smallholdings will provide secure storage. I think that it is far more likely that others will be able to take your stuff from the building unless there is someone to stop them.
The invulnerability behavior would end with siege engines, if it ever existed.
Would a reasonable compromise be a period of notice during which you were able to remove your effects before your building was removed? Maybe roughly equal to the time it would take to destroy the building via siege engine?
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Goblin Squad Member
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The invulnerability behavior would end with siege engines, if it ever existed.Would a reasonable compromise be a period of notice during which you were able to remove your effects before your building was removed? Maybe roughly equal to the time it would take to destroy the building via siege engine?
This is pretty much what I meant when I suggested Eviction Notices.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The invulnerability behavior would end with siege engines, if it ever existed.
Would a reasonable compromise be a period of notice during which you were able to remove your effects before your building was removed? Maybe roughly equal to the time it would take to destroy the building via siege engine?
Certainly, at least in all the scenarios I have come up with.
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Goblin Squad Member
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This is pretty much what I meant when I suggested Eviction Notices.
Sorry, I hadn't spotted that until you pointed back to it. I was responding rather copiously, and I'm afraid the barrage of Ping-Pong balls was greater than I anticipated and from people I thought would be in my corner. Still, they are free thinking individuals and I should have been more attentive.
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Goblin Squad Member
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My personal stance is that leaving Small-Holdings practically immune to destruction until the implementation of siege weapons is not practical. It leaves too much room for abuse. However, I disagree that the solution is to let someone 'claim' a hex and dislodge prior small-holders without having to negotiate with the owners or assault the holdings. Automatic dismissal and eviction notices are not the way to go. A smallholder should at a minimum have the option to defend their holding, especially if they are online at the time.
I think the best option is to allow Small Holdings to be "sieged" by large player groups (10+ people) over an extended period of time to be removed and sent back to the owner's inventory until such time as siege engines are deployed.
This covers the need for someone wishing to oust you to bring 'Overwhelming Force' or to negotiate. But it doesn't just allow someone to oust all small-holders just because they popped in a Sponsored POI.
As the leader of TEO, I wish to clarify that individual members are allowed to have and promote their own ideas. Cheatle's idea is not being spoken on behalf of TEO, but on behalf of Cheatle due to his personal concerns that small-holdings may be abused as permanent bases with which to harass others with. Beyond the stated ideologies and principles in our recruitment post, we have no lines to toe or talking points to get behind.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Perhaps players should be able to pick-up smallholdings at a reduced cool down (24-48 hours), inventory in-tact(but inaccessible until it is placed again). When a hex is claimed, after 48 hours all smallholdings not aligned with the POI are despawned with this reduced cool down.
POI's should take precedence, players shouldn't be able to place items in a hex that increase the time to claim. Claiming a hex is a PvE activity. Raiding or taking the hex is the PvP.
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Goblin Squad Member
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There is a road that encircles every settlement location, it is outside of where I believe the walls will be, though there are no walls in alpha. I'll get a screenshot this weekend from a nearby hill looking over a town for you so you can get an idea of scale as well.Quote: "The Smallholding can be erected outside the perimeter of a Settlement but within the boundary created by the ring road, or at special locations in the wilderness."
What is a "Ring Road"?
It can bee seen here in the foreground from the left most to the right most part of the screen. I believe fortification walls sit atop the small hill beyond the ring road. My guess that the space between the road and the hill is where the small holdings will sit. This is just speculation based on the information at hand.
PS: some sort of force feild has appeared at the base of the hills north of Sotterhill, I'm not sure why but i'm not a fan of it.