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ACG errata is being worked on now, and has been worked on for quite some time.
I did expect this to happen sooner, but part of the process involved having the entire book re-edited from cover to cover, which is more than just spotting errors pointed out here and addressing them (we're doing that, too).
We've had some staff changes in our editorial department (including hiring more editors to prevent a similar experience for everyone), and that has also slowed down the process somewhat.
I believe that the books we have published since the ACG (Monster Codex, Strategy Guide, Unchained, and the forthcoming Occult Adventures) are much tighter and better edited than the Advanced Class Guide, which was a low-point for our internal editorial process and has resulted in a multitude of behind-the-scene changes aimed and preventing a repeat.
So, I know I've said this before, but the errata will be appearing quite soon. I can smell it cooking from my office.
And its smell is the smell of delicious cookies, which is quite a step up, from where I'm sitting.
The editing work in Pathfinder Unchained is meticulous, user-friendly (explaining the changes in the Unchained classes) and of the highest professional standard.
And the content is simply staggering especially when you compare it to similar books like D&D 3.5e Unearthed Arcana.
A definite departure from the problems plaguing the ACG.
Happy to hear that ACG errata is on its way.
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The only problems I have had so far in Unchained are a few very minor errors (Campaign instead of Combat in a book reference), some very minor oddities (Agathians not being able to grab the mount evolution while Devils can), and the skills chapter having some pretty difficult reading.
All together the book is exactly where I expect a 40$ Hardcover from the leading RPG publisher to be at in terms of quality.
Here's to hoping - my Bolt Ace is sad that he had to pay a feat to use a repeating Crossbow. Because even if they aren't that great, they are awesome. I really wanna find out if I needed to pay that feat so I can make fun of the GM - or if he was right and I need to be nice. For once.
Really wishing this is fixed to get Bolt Ace PFS legal.
Publisher, Chief Creative Officer
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The only problems I have had so far in Unchained are a few very minor errors (Campaign instead of Combat in a book reference), some very minor oddities (Agathians not being able to grab the mount evolution while Devils can), and the skills chapter having some pretty difficult reading.
All together the book is exactly where I expect a 40$ Hardcover from the leading RPG publisher to be at in terms of quality.
Thank you.
We have taken many steps to avoid many of the problems that plagued the ACG, and while the books will never be perfect I am pleased to hear that you feel there has been an improvement.
The only problems I have had so far in Unchained are a few very minor errors (Campaign instead of Combat in a book reference), some very minor oddities (Agathians not being able to grab the mount evolution while Devils can), and the skills chapter having some pretty difficult reading.
All together the book is exactly where I expect a 40$ Hardcover from the leading RPG publisher to be at in terms of quality.
Thank you.
We have taken many steps to avoid many of the problems that plagued the ACG, and while the books will never be perfect I am pleased to hear that you feel there has been an improvement.
I have to agree with Insain Dragoon as far as editing goes on unchained: It's right where I expect from you guys. Really, as far as editing goes, everything after ACG has been fine for me. I'm hopeful that when the ACG errata comes out that I'll be as happy with the ACG.
I made a point of commenting that the editing was excellent* in my Unchained review. It's nice to confirm that the ACG was an anomaly rather than a sign of things to come. :)
I do wonder as to what, exactly, happened with the ACG. It seems to be a pretty major low point. I'm guessing it was a combination of SKR leaving part way through development, a rush to get it read in time for the convention where it was being premièred and bad luck, but it seems whatever it was got fixed.
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Publisher, Chief Creative Officer
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It's probably not constructive for me to point fingers (especially when as publisher the ultimate responsibility is mine), but bad luck definitely played a role. While there isn't much we can do to change that, we have changed just about every other factor that went into the problems with this book, and I do not expect them to re-express themselves any time soon.
I do wonder as to what, exactly, happened with the ACG. It seems to be a pretty major low point. I'm guessing it was a combination of SKR leaving part way through development, a rush to get it read in time for the convention where it was being premièred and bad luck, but it seems whatever it was got fixed.
I actually stuck around until the end of development. My last week was the week it went over to editing.
The biggest problems with the ACG weren't even in the class section. In fact that was the section with the least errors in the book.
It was
1. The very disjointed connections between the class-Archetype-feat sections. If I were to hazard a guess it's that the class designers didn't get much opportunity to make sure the archetypes and feats fit with what they wanted and we got stuff like Weapon of the Chosen that was against much of what Warpriest represented or several archetypes that stole all the best class features of other classes while combining them with itself.
2. The sheer number of errors per page in the book.
3. Design decisions at odds with previous materials.
The class section was actually relatively polished and in many areas well written. Also the stuff SKR actually wrote came out pretty darn good with the only glaring omission being an explanation of how Skirmisher tricks work for the Hunter. The Skald is a pretty fine work of art and the Slayer is highly praised wherever I see it mentioned. The Brawler in our group is often called "What the fighter should have been" and it could honestly replace Fighters if it ever got an archetype to use martial weapons on flurry and heavy armor.
Now for something entirely different.
In the alternate action system, the action cost of casting a spell is equivalent to taking a full-round action (tough the spell still happens immediately). This is an interesting development that I could see myself introducing into the regular Pathfinder action economy. No move and spellcasting makes Step Up and similar abilities considerably more useful, not to mention a readied action to "counter" a spell with an axe.
Now for something entirely different...
Something so different it belongs in another thread (my post above is about Pathfinder Unchained an off-topic here. Admin feel free to delete both that and this - I cannot do so ant longer).
I remember the water balloon controversy
Not quite water balloons, but would you settle for a balloon fight and race, all over some body of water?
Another balloon and water stuff, for those preferring less violence and/or competitiveness....
Thank you Paizo (Erik Mona and Mark Seifter, Sean K Reynolds as the latest posters) for the information.
I would like to say that the editing in Unchained is good, I was worried after ACG but this company knows how to be relentless in excellence. Similarly I look forward to Occult. And to the erratas of course!
To be fair, my group is using a lot of the ACG and it can be solved with house rules and such. ACG suffered in design; there were many good ideas but many of the implementations are a bit disjunctioned. Insain Dragoon makes very relevant points on the matter.
I think one of the most important points was, to me, what seemed like a lack of "cross referencing", making sure of how exactly things worked with each other beyond the scope of the immediate archetype/class. This is a lot of work, I realise, which increases with every new book, but it is paramount when putting out so many new moving parts.
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Ok. It's been about 9 months.
Surely there is some idea of when this errata will be released or what the release plan for it is. It's really quite poor form to wait this long to fix something that you broke so completely.
Can we please get some indication of how long we need to wait. Will we have to wait till August? Making it a solid 12 months since it's first release? Or can we get something sooner.
Please Paizo, we just want some indication of time here. We've paid for a book that is riddled with mistakes. In many industries selling something so broken would entitle us to mass refunds. Instead we have waited for 9 months for an answer as to when this will happen.
Again, it has been 9 months. You surely must have a plan and dead line in place by now. Any properly run company would. Can you shed even a small bit of light on that for us? Please?
Meanwhile in the RPG industry the standard has been you paid for it, now deal. So the fact that we get FAQs and errata quite regularly, puts Paizo ahead of the game in my opinion.
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Meanwhile in the RPG industry the standard has been you paid for it, now deal. So the fact that we get FAQs and errata quite regularly, puts Paizo ahead of the game in my opinion.
I heartily agree. I still shudder at the thought of how bad it was towards the end of TSR. Even in the same product line each release varied wildly in quality. Playtesting was optional at best. I was utterly convinced that no one bothered to read some of them before dumping them on the general public. I stopped playing DnD and went to Cyberpunk for awhile because of quality issues. Thankfully, I don't see that happening here with the ACG. One outlier does not a trend make.
SM
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I agree, if Unchained is what we can expect then it's not a trend. Still want some ACG errata though.
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It is frustrating that we've waited this long. But with a little luck we won't go a full year with a broken book. I think Paizo want to make sure nothing in the new FAQ's don't break it even more.
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Publisher, Chief Creative Officer
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Again, it has been 9 months. You surely must have a plan and dead line in place by now. Any properly run company would. Can you shed even a small bit of light on that for us? Please?
No.
It'll be sooner rather than later.
It's a top priority, but it won't happen before the end of PaizoCon, which starts tomorrow.
I'm making it happen as fast as I can. I'm reluctant to share more information than that, because if it doesn't happen when I say it will, we will be castigated for it.
So, it's going to happen soon, but I don't want to get more specific than that.
Very soon indeed. Please be patient just a little while longer.
I can say with authority and certainty that it will not be a full year from the book's publication.
So there you have it. A window.
Some time between the end of PaizoCon and the beginning of Gen Con.
For sure.
Don't sell yourself short, Erik! GenCon is early this year, so even if it did come out after GenCon, it wouldn't have been a full year. :-)
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I think there is a big difference between directed criticism and constant complaining.
Directed criticism aims to get results, and we have gotten results, Pathfinder Unchained is professionally edited, it focused on just 4 classes, provided unique mechanics for those classes as well as providing a plethora of content that covers a wide area of the game.
Designers aim to do their best, and like all of us sometimes make mistakes, and shouldn't be condemned for eternity.
ACG was just a small bump in a sturdy road of game design.
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I think there is a big difference between directed criticism and constant complaining.
Directed criticism aims to get results, and we have gotten results, Pathfinder Unchained is professionally edited, it focused on just 4 classes, provided unique mechanics for those classes as well as providing a plethora of content that covers a wide area of the game.
Designers aim to do their best, and like all of us sometimes make mistakes, and shouldn't be condemned for eternity.
ACG was just a small bump in a sturdy road of game design.
While I have no complaints about the latest products, the issues with the ACG are still unresolved. As such, I don't think "constant complaining" is fair. The speed of the ACG corrections are as much of a concern, to me at least, as the new editing. So I wouldn't say I've gotten the results I want. I've gotten some but the issue that started it all is still not fixed.
Better current editing doesn't make the lack of ACG errata/FAQ's any less frustrating.
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As one of the biggest detractors of the ACG I think Erik gave a more than adequate response and that really any further requests for expedition or complaints that it should have been completed sooner are unecessary and just seems a little toxic.
That Paizo is breaking policy and releasing errata so soon is exactly what we asked for and they have already taken care of most of the potential causes of an ACG repeat, so to me the issue is closed.
I'm only mildly worried about the Occult Adventures books since it's a Gencon release, but nowhere near as much as I was pre-Unchained.
As one of the biggest detractors of the ACG I think Erik gave a more than adequate response and that really any further requests for expedition or complaints that it should have been completed sooner are unecessary and just seems a little toxic.
That Paizo is breaking policy and releasing errata so soon is exactly what we asked for and they have already taken care of most of the potential causes of an ACG repeat, so to me the issue is closed.
I'm only mildly worried about the Occult Adventures books since it's a Gencon release, but nowhere near as much as I was pre-Unchained.
Are they breaking policy? Was the international nightmare getting new physical books to be shipped? Do they have the finished Errata sitting there and they were needing a second printing already so they are waiting? I've heard rumors that they'll release it early, but no official quotes.
Are they breaking policy? Was the international nightmare getting new physical books to be shipped? Do they have the finished Errata sitting there and they were needing a second printing already so they are waiting? I've heard rumors that they'll release it early, but no official quotes.As one of the biggest detractors of the ACG I think Erik gave a more than adequate response and that really any further requests for expedition or complaints that it should have been completed sooner are unecessary and just seems a little toxic.
That Paizo is breaking policy and releasing errata so soon is exactly what we asked for and they have already taken care of most of the potential causes of an ACG repeat, so to me the issue is closed.
I'm only mildly worried about the Occult Adventures books since it's a Gencon release, but nowhere near as much as I was pre-Unchained.
The errata are not done. They are getting pretty close, but not yet.
Again, it has been 9 months. You surely must have a plan and dead line in place by now. Any properly run company would. Can you shed even a small bit of light on that for us? Please?No.
It'll be sooner rather than later.
It's a top priority, but it won't happen before the end of PaizoCon, which starts tomorrow.
I'm making it happen as fast as I can. I'm reluctant to share more information than that, because if it doesn't happen when I say it will, we will be castigated for it.
So, it's going to happen soon, but I don't want to get more specific than that.
Very soon indeed. Please be patient just a little while longer.
@Chess Pwn
Erik is like, one of the most important people in Paizo. While it's not a blog post it's still pretty official.
I can say with authority and certainty that it will not be a full year from the book's publication.
So there you have it. A window.
Some time between the end of PaizoCon and the beginning of Gen Con.
For sure.
The window is much appreciated! Although it has been hard to wait, I'm glad you are taking the time to get this edition right. Another rushed publication isn't going to make anyone happy. There were so many great concepts in the ACG that were poorly implemented. I'm really looking forward to a version that is up to the standards of your more recent publications.
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I can say with authority and certainty that it will not be a full year from the book's publication.
So there you have it. A window.
Some time between the end of PaizoCon and the beginning of Gen Con.
For sure.
When the long-awaited errata is released, will that also signal the second printing of the book (with all the errata, edits etc included)?
I'd very much like to finally buy the book, but at this point I'd want to be sure it's the second printing ...
Yeah, you usually get an email prompting you to the updated download.
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Meanwhile in the RPG industry the standard has been you paid for it, now deal. So the fact that we get FAQs and errata quite regularly, puts Paizo ahead of the game in my opinion.
There are some companies that do that. There are other companies that are much better about errata. I really dislike the way that Paizo ties errata to dead tree versions of their products, especially considering most of my purchases are PDF.
Not sure if these have been posted...
Flexible Hex Feat: Strangely this is LESS flexible than the base class ability it is meant to improve (Wandering Hex). FH says you must choose Hex of your current Wandering Spirit, while the base WH ability allows choosing Hexes of EITHER the Wandering Spirit or your Primary Spirit... I get the impression that the writer of FH overlooked that function of WH (probably influenced by the mention of Wandering in the name of the ability) Not sure if Generic Hexes should be legit too (either for FH or base WH).
Spirit Talker Feat: Confusing wording:
"When you do, you gain the temporary use of one hex from its list of hexes. This hex is added to your list of available hexes for the next 24 hours."
What is "added to your list of available hexes"? To me, that reads as if it is simply adding said Hex as an additional option, but that you still need to "spend" your Class Ability Hex/Wandering Hex on "activating" that Hex... Better to remove the last sentence, and just append "for the next 24 hours" to the previous sentence, IMHO.
Extra Hex: Shouldn't this really allow generic Shaman Hex eligibility?
I believe somebody has already posted about the problems with Unsworn Shaman, including it's interaction with Feats and so on.
...This is a vaguer issue, but overall, most of the Spirits seem to be VERY weak, with Heavens, Life and Nature really being about the only decent ones IMHO. Errata to the others (or even some of abilities within the decent ones I mentioned) with the purpose to upgrade their functionality/benefit to be attractive enough to take as Primary Spirits (i.e. competitive to the mentioned ones), as well as for Wandering, seems heavily justified IMHO.
...I also think somebody mentioned it, but HOW Hunter/SacredHuntsmaster Companions are supposed to use Skirmisher Tricks seems pretty important... Some involving issues of commanding (free action normally on turn) for Immediate Actions, some tricks just being more appropriate for Hunter themself to do (rather than Companion) and so should in that case the Hunter themself gain a Trick instead of the Companion...
Is there an official ruling on starting ages for hybrid classes from the Advanced Class Guide?
Thanks,
Kirby
I think a reasonable bet would be to take the 'older' of the two classes that make up the hybrid.
As far as an official ruling, not that I know of though starting ages if awfully low in the list of fixes I'm looking for from the book.
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Is there an official ruling on starting ages for hybrid classes from the Advanced Class Guide?
Thanks,
KirbyI think a reasonable bet would be to take the 'older' of the two classes that make up the hybrid.
As far as an official ruling, not that I know of though starting ages if awfully low in the list of fixes I'm looking for from the book.
It would take a very small amount of time to make a ruling on these ages and it would no longer be an issues.
Kirby
Is there an official ruling on starting ages for hybrid classes from the Advanced Class Guide?
Thanks,
KirbyI think a reasonable bet would be to take the 'older' of the two classes that make up the hybrid.
As far as an official ruling, not that I know of though starting ages if awfully low in the list of fixes I'm looking for from the book.
It would take a very small amount of time to make a ruling on these ages and it would no longer be an issues.
Kirby
LOL See, I think for most people it's not an issue now but having parts of the game not working correctly are. For me, it's a matter of priorities. Not knowing starting ages shouldn't prevent you from playing a class while some of the other current outstanding issues might.
Now to be clear, if your question can actually be answered and take no time away from (IMO) more important issues then cool. If it pushes back other questions by even a little then I'd rather see it set aside for critical issues.
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Is there an official ruling on starting ages for hybrid classes from the Advanced Class Guide?
Thanks,
KirbyI think a reasonable bet would be to take the 'older' of the two classes that make up the hybrid.
As far as an official ruling, not that I know of though starting ages if awfully low in the list of fixes I'm looking for from the book.
It would take a very small amount of time to make a ruling on these ages and it would no longer be an issues.
Kirby
LOL See, I think for most people it's not an issue now but having parts of the game not working correctly are. For me, it's a matter of priorities. Not knowing starting ages shouldn't prevent you from playing a class while some of the other current outstanding issues might.
Now to be clear, if your question can actually be answered and take no time away from (IMO) more important issues then cool. If it pushes back other questions by even a little then I'd rather see it set aside for critical issues.
I know I would love a minute devoted to: "Yes, the Human/Half-Elf/Half-Orc Shaman FCB adds the Cleric spells to both spells known and to the Shaman's spell list." Or "FCB are class features." and "Shamans can take Hexes off the default list with Extra Hex." But waiting for errata is fine to.
Anzyr: Yeah, my list starts with the Bolt Ace's weapon prof, gunsmithing, free gun, ect. I'm hoping they DO come out soon as I've been holding off using substantial parts of the book until it sees the light.
PS: I KNOW it seems that a lot of these questions would only take a moment/minute/"very small amount of time" but it seems that a lot goes on behind the scenes to make it not so simple.
I found what seems to be an error in the ACG, one I'm not sure has been mentioned anywhere yet. The Shaman Wind Spirit's "True Spirit" ability allows you to turn into a lightning elemental, as elemental body IV. Was this supposed to be air elemental?
As it currently stands, elemental body only has rules for fire/water/earth/air elemental forms, nothing for a lightning elemental.
The Waves, Flame, and Stone spirits let you become a water, fire, and earth elemental, respectively, but the wind spirit ability has a "B2" superscript on the words "lightning elemental", making it seem less like a typo.
Not sure if the damage component of Heaven's Sunburn ability is "ongoing"/DoT(1rnd) and thus provokes Concentration check for casters, or instantaneous (and only glow effect is 1rnd). Grammar isn't clear... logically the effects would go together, so damage would be DoT, but I'm not sure.
Heaven spirit animal is unclear re "star map", is that the same as "start chart"? Even if so, the mechanical benefits should be given here IMHO.
Also, what is official stance on Shamans taking Improved Familiar?
I believe they can't, because Spirit Animal functions as Familiar EXCEPT THAT it has restriction on always having same type, I.e. that restriction falls outside scope of Familiar ability, thus Improved Familiars modification of Familiar rules doesn't apply... In contrast, things like Pirate Bard or Domains that have Familiar with one specific animal ARE fully functioning within scope of Familiar ability (even if they remove normal options), so CAN benefit from extra choices of Improved Familiar which adds choices (though could still not choose other base familiars, for special bonuses, even if they can now select Planar versions of those animals).
Still, it would be nice to be cleared up, especially as that is a pretty arcane nuance between these different rules cases(of "restricted choice familiars").
Btw, I thought I'd re-post a link to another thread relevant to potential ACG errors,
discussing the Shaman's spell list and how it seems to be missing a surprising amount of stuff that is thematically appropriate and present on 2 or more of Cleric/Druid/Witch lists.