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howdy everyone,
I am pondering here. I was thinking of rolling up a tiefling. I was wondering is it possible to have horns then use claw/claw as a secondary attacks. I plan to pick up multi attack then pick up power attack.
I am looking at the barbarian class.
Feat ideas:
*Multiattack
*power attack
*raging brutality
*raging deathblow
*raging vitality
*rending claws
*rending fury
*Multi attack secondary
*Bloody assault
Abilities build 20 point BUY
16 STR
14 CON
14 INT
10 WIS
12 DEX
10 CHA
Oni-Spawn (Tiefling)
+2 STR
+2 WIS
-2 CHA
idea attack in time is
REND with Horns/Claw/Claw/Bite
What would the stats on horn attacks?
What traits would be best to grab for the build? 2 to pick.
I am looking at other stuff like:
Animal Fury
Bleeding Blow
Boars Charge
Crippling Blow
Power blow
Disemboweling Tust
Fiend Toner
Please let me know can any of this work or what changes should I make?
There is a lot to deal with here.
Where are you getting the gore attack? While you have horns, you need an actual source to make them useful (just like how humans have teeth, but do not necessarily have a bite attack).
You could get a gore attack from the fiend totem for barbarians. It is not considered optimal, since it means you have to skip out on beast totem, but it can still do what you are asking for (and would be thematic). I am sorry if you meant this, but I didn't see it mentioned anywhere (unless it was 'fiend toner'- still, it came last on your list, and seemed an afterthought)
Tieflings have an alternate racial trait called Maw or Claw, which trades your spell like ability either for a set of claws or a bite attack.
Why would the claws be secondary? You can have as many primary attacks during a full attack as you have limbs and ways to actually get an attack on that limb. Natural attacks (usually) do not force eachother into secondary status, and instead their status comes from the attack types (and sometimes source, like how animal fury basically gives you a secondary bite). Here is the usual, default settings
-Primary attacks are- bites, claws, slams, talons, gore, and stings.
-Secondary attacks are- hooves, wing buffets, tail slaps, tentacles, pincers, and other random things.
Having a manufactured weapon during the same full attack makes them all secondary, however. But if you only have primary attacks, and do not plan on throwing swords, daggers, armor spikes, or whatever in there, then there should be little need for multiattack (which lowers the penalties to attack on secondary natural attacks, even if they are only likes that because a sword is messing things up)
You don't need Multiattack because all of your naturals are primary; as long as you don't take out a manufactured weapon all of them will be hitting at full BAB.
Your horns are a gore attack, which will have to come from Fiend Totem so you want that as your first rage power. You're also going to want the Suspicious rage power to assist your will saves.
I'd recommend you do this for your point buy:
16(+2) STR
13 DEX
14 CON
12 INT
12(+2) WIS
8(-2) CHA
If you don't want to dump charisma that far then change INT to 10.
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You don't need Multiattack because all of your naturals are primary; as long as you don't take out a manufactured weapon all of them will be hitting at full BAB.
Your horns are a gore attack, which will have to come from Fiend Totem so you want that as your first rage power. You're also going to want the Suspicious rage power to assist your will saves.
would the multi-attack give me, Horn/claw/claw??? vrs just Horns?
would the multi-attack give me, Horn/claw/claw??? vrs just Horns?You don't need Multiattack because all of your naturals are primary; as long as you don't take out a manufactured weapon all of them will be hitting at full BAB.
Your horns are a gore attack, which will have to come from Fiend Totem so you want that as your first rage power. You're also going to want the Suspicious rage power to assist your will saves.
Nope, other way around. You need 3 natural attacks in order to take that feat.
That feat does not give you multiple attacks, it helps you master the multiple attacks that you already have (well, if you needed help)
The feat you are looking for is Aspect of the Beast, which has an option to give you claws. That feat has some harsh prerequisites though (lycanthropy, or wildshaping druid that wouldn't want it anyway), so the best way to get it is through the ranger style feats, since there is a natural attack style.
would the multi-attack give me, Horn/claw/claw??? vrs just Horns?You don't need Multiattack because all of your naturals are primary; as long as you don't take out a manufactured weapon all of them will be hitting at full BAB.
Your horns are a gore attack, which will have to come from Fiend Totem so you want that as your first rage power. You're also going to want the Suspicious rage power to assist your will saves.
No, multi attack doesn't grant amy additional attacks.
If you're making a full attack, you can use all of your natural attacks.
What Iemeres said.
The natural attack rules are that with a full attack you get all your primary natural attacks at full BAB and all your secondary natural attacks at BAB -5. But you get no iteratives. If you mix weapon attacks with natural attacks you lose the natural attack associated with the limb (or limbs for 2 handed) used for the weapon attack, all the natural attacks become secondaries, and you get your iteratives with a weapon plus those natural attacks.
For example a form with a primary bite and two primary claws (some form of tiefling or tenge with various racial feats) can do the following:
Full attack all three at full BAB ( no iteratives)
Full attack one handed weapon (sword?) at full BAB with iteratives, plus one bite at -5 and one claw at -5
Full attack two handed weapon at full BAB with iteratives plus one bite at-5 ( you lose both claws since both hands are needed for the weapon)
Standard attack with any weapon at full BAB
Standard attack with (only) one natural weapon at full BAB
Generally a natural attack build is better at levels prior to your third iterative, but it requires a lot of work & some specific magic item investments to stay competitive.
Generally a natural attack build is better at levels prior to your third iterative, but it requires a lot of work & some specific magic item investments to stay competitive.
Basically. To clarify, as a general rule, you want more natural attacks than you get iteratives with a sword. The multiple attacks at full BAB keep somewhere near to par to a 2handed if you can do that.
Bite/claw/claw (the easiest set to get), and options to go past that are slim usually, so that is why many natural attack builds sputter out after 3 iteratives (although rogues can just love having those 3 attacks; better than TWF for them)
Really lemeres? It's fairly easy to snag natural attacks. Catfolk can start with 2 claws. Adopted trait (1/2 orc) + tusked = bite. Levels of alchemist (for 2 vestigial arm) and Catfolk Exemplar to add claws to them. Buy Fleshwarped Scorpion's Tail for sting attack. Helm of the Mammoth Lord for gore.
7 natural attack without having to dig too much. And before someone says something about the vestigial arms, the rule is that you can't get more attacks with the arms than you had without them. Everyone can make two weapon attacks (TWF w/ unarmed attacks) + natural weapon attacks(no vestigial arms). So your max attacks with is equal to natural attacks(no vestigial arms) +2. That just happens to equal your total natural weapon attacks(w/vestigial arms) ...
Now take Claw Pounce, and you can pounce with 4 claw attacks. :)
Vestigial arms has been specifically FAQed out of that. You can see it in all its glory right here
No idea where the tail is coming from (is it this?)I am unsure of how to interpret using that as an option. It is not like the Helm of the Mammoth Lord, where anyone with craft wondrous item can grab it, no this needs specialists (which either means you need a party member, or you have to ask your GM VERY nicely to give highly invasive surgery to your character).
And, this is just a personal thing, but I have grown sick of catfolk raised by half-orcs. I mean, they learned the ancient art of growing dagger sized teeth? Plus........catfolk specifically peeve me off here (far too many barbarian ones trying to get claws on their feet for the same reasons you do in the rules threads; by the way, just to nip it in the bud, talons and rake apparently go on the feet of humanoids, according to dev commentary to those threads as seen here). Why couldn't you have at least said 'tiefling'? It doesn't cause my totally unjustified (well, not totally) anger towards you (I do believe I am turning a nice shade of purple right now;[please continue if you wish for me to pop! I am sure I will make a satisfying 'phote' sound when I do)
That FAQ is exactly what I was talking about. It's what lays out what you can do. You can't exceed your max attacks you can take. As I pointed out, you aren't. You didn't take your 2 unarmed attack everyone is allowed to make. This was run past one of the dev's at the time of the FAQ and they said it would work that way. It follows the FAQ to the letter.
"if you're low-level alchemist who uses two-weapon fighting, you can normally make two attacks per round" note all examples come down to only make two attacks. Now I showed the way I added it up above. Two weapon attack + normal natural attack is the same number of attacks as all normal natural attacks + your 2 vestigial arm attacks. All you have to make sure that it "does not give the alchemist any extra attacks or actions per round." Unarmed attacks are what make it work. They seem to have forgotten about them until asked about it in the FAQ thread they made.
Fleshwarped Scorpion's Tail is from Magical Marketplace. Requirements = Craft Magic Arms and Armor, beast shape III, poison (for normal weapon). Attaching it as a natural attack just takes a DC 20 Heal check. No 'specialists' needed just someone with a good heal check. Heck, you should be able to take 10 with it.
On catfolk, the main reason to suggest them is the easy of getting an extra set of claws for the vestigial arms. The get a racial feat, Catfolk Exemplar, that grants a pair of claws.
As to adopted, would it be better is I said Goblin and took mother's teeth? :P