Ivory Sanctum (Spoilers)

[Globetrotter]

My party is about to run through the Ivory Sanctum this weekend and I am a little puzzled about how it is set up.

First, after reading it through a few times, it seems there are three forces at play:

1: Jerribeth (Q5)
2: Grillixbee (Q10)
3: Xanthir Vang(Q19)

Jerribeth wants Xanthir dead so she can take a promotion.

Grillixbee wants Jerribeth dead since he/she believes Xanthir is the more powerful out of the two, but he/she is truly only loyal to Areelu

Xanthir is just a powerful force.

The way the players are supposed to come in is through Q1 and fight 6 basilisks, a cake walk and then a few fiendish minotaurs in area Q2 through an illusionary wall the PC already know about. This is all straight forward.

The problem that I have is with the general "dungeon crawl" feeling of this. This is what I am trying to figure out, if the PC start to fight the minotaurs in area Q2, through the gate or not (everyone has access to teleportation or dimension door at this level), how is it that the ENTIRE complex is not aware of what is going on?

I was looking at the perception skill and it says hearing a combat is a DC -10. Modifiers are +1 for every 10 feet, +5 for a closed door and +10 for every foot of wall. Jerribeth has a perception check of +26. That means her reactive perception is +36. That means in her room in area Q5, the DC for her to hear a battle in Q2 is about a DC 5: about 50 feet away (DC +5), through a 1 foot wall (DC +10) in combat (DC -10). She is 100% going to know.

Xanthir sitting in his room counting his worms has about a DC 22 using similar calculations (70 feet, one closed door and 2 one foot walls). His perception is +23, so he will hear this too. It's not a big complex after all.

What is to stop the entire complex from coming down on the PC's? They are the heroes of Kenebres that killed Stauton, saved the heretic succubus, rescued Drezen and pretty much have caused problems for the forces of evil. Are they really going to just sit in their rooms and wait for the PC's to open each and every door?

Take the demons in Q9, I have no idea why they are not engaging against the PC's during the Q2 battle.. I mean they are only 80 feet away and they have line of sight. They are either going to attack or not, but the telepathy 100 feet thing is pretty much going to also alert the entire complex that the heroes have arrived.

I have trouble with this, and am working on a different solution and am very curious to what you have to say. I think when the PC's begin their simple battle with the minotaurs, Jerribeth is going to pop her cute little face around the corner and say hi to the PC's. She will give her little speech in private about how she really want Xanthir dead and hope the PC's don't just kill her outright.

If they run into Grillixbee, he/she can try to sway the PC's to not listen to Jerribeth and send them back to kill her, but either way Xanthir is going to know what is going on and scrying the entire time to prepare.

There is no way Grillixbee is going to let the PC's get a hold of documents just laying out on the table... this doesn't make any sense at all. The documents will be in Xanthir's room for save keeping well before the PC's reach the room.

All the wondering creatures are either going to hold back and do a full assault with whomever they are more allied with, or they are going to head for the hills.

I see this going down as two or three battles, with the other rooms either fleeing the scene or simple mop up that doesn't even deserve exposition.

The final battle will be with Xanthir, with maybe some of the demons assisting. I think having the Q9 demons and maybe some of the blackfire adepts helping.

Battle one or two will either be with Jerribeth with the remaining minotaurs helping, or with Grillixbee and the blackfire adepts.

Xanthir is smart and pretty wise as well. I am sure he knows Jerribeth is plotting against him and will wait to strike at the right time during the battle to finish off the PC's. Why would he wait for the PC's to recharge fully? Plus, he gets rid of the plotting Jerribeth at the same time.

So, another problem then pops up, there is no way the PC's can survive this assault.

I could have the PC's fight either Jerribeth or Grillixbee, which gives Xanthir time to get prepared, and send summons out to cause problems, but again, it gets too hard for the PC's.

I read the thread about how this AP was too easy and the mythic levels allowed them to tear though all the encounters, but this does not happen at my table. We have lost a number of characters and they complain the AP is a little too hard. We had another character death just last week against the annis hag. That was getting close to a TPK.

This post might be a little scattered, so I apologize. I hope my point is clear and I look forward to getting feedback and suggestions.

[Seannoss]

I think that you could easily throw in the demons in area 9.

Then boil the rest of it down to RP choose your path and ignore the perception checks. Jerribeth would probably rather talk to the PCs out of combat so she can talk and the others are further way to not worry about it. There are also knights training in that area to muddle any sounds of combat that are happening.

[Globetrotter]

It's going to be hard to just forget about perception checks. My players wonder about these things too, at least I am sure they will; they are clever, lol.

I would have to bring in the Q9 demons to Q2, it would make not sense otherwise.

I did over look Q14, the training area, but I am not sure that is enough to block out a real battle. There are 4 templars, weak against anything i this section btw, training together or against wood dummies. I am guessing that is making some noise, but nothing like the sound of a real battle fighting against fiendish minotaurs.

Alarms will be set off.

Did you guys just run this as a room to room encounter? What is behind this door... ah, most death. Wow, we got through that one, lets see what is behind the next door? Ouch, more death. Good thing these rooms are sound tight, that battle would have been dangerous if they worked together.

[isaic16]

It does specifically say in the AP that the demons in Q9 do not reinforce the Minotaurs, not because they don't hear them, but because they were instructed to guard this area alone, and they don't particularly lie the minotaurs. Keep in mind that there's no reason to believe, just from the sound of battle, that it is the party of mythic heroes that are here. There's a good chance that the demons will be happy to see some of their compatriots go, and will assume they can handle whatever their allies couldn't, especially after they were softened up.

The best way I can think to make it obvious that people are responding, is always have whoever waiting for them. As soon as the first battle ends, a soothing female voice comes from the side hallway beckoning the party over. As soon as they take the hallway out of Q9, they see Grillixbee in the hall with a proposition for them. Things like that. It isn't people being unaware that prevents the entire place from coming down on them. I believe that is, in fact, the major reason for there being all these different factions. Use them to your advantage as much as possible.

[Seannoss]

It was a random direction but my PCs met Jerribeth right after that fight. It isn't hard for me to imagine that she doesn't mind the PCs being here killing demons as that is Vang's failure. And my PCs took her up on her offer and she told them how to get to him without any other fights.

So if your players worry about it, let them, now they know this place is divided and introduce them to whichever demon suits your story the best.

[laraqua]

I know this is a response to an encounter well-passed, but I figured others will likely have the same thoughts / concerns so I'm adding my 2 cents regardless.

Have the walls be alchemically treated to muffle sounds because Xanthir was sick of the sounds of torture and other things that the demons keep doing, that should increase the DC by +10 and you can just mention that the walls of an oddly dimpled aspect to them (Knowledge Arcana to identify the alchemical treatment).

Let Xanthir sit back and wait because he wants to test his compatriots to see whether Jerribeth is conspiring against him (she is) and to let the others grind down the PCs.

Jerribeth could also call in some loyal folks (as far as CE can be loyal) to defend her in her room, thus preventing more of a pile on. The Blackfire Adepts might spend time reinforcing their room, casting spells, and even setting up a partial barricade so that they can cast over it with ease while the melee PCs must break through it or swing over partial cover.

Thus everyone is clearly aware and prepared, but they don't all rush together as one united force. You could even have, say, the fiendish minotaurs standing back and laughing as the demons get slaughtered or vice versa, before rushing in directly afterward. Unless the PCs are highly identifiable, i.e. an ifrit, a tiefling and a paladin or what-not, they won't know for sure who they are.

Xanthir would but he needs an excuse to take out Jerribeth.

That's how I'll do it, anyhow, though I was actually tempted to have Jerribeth approach them en route to this sanctum, having been alerted by a "loyal" quasit or similar along the road.

EDIT: If you want a silly decision, why doesn't Jerribeth teleport elsewhere after winning the PCs on side? It's not like demons don't expect betrayal. I'll also be having the PCs encounter her later on in a sanctum that the other fellow will direct them to likely hide outs for her when he tries to convince them to kill Jerribeth instead.

People do make silly decisions, so no fault on the AP especially as some players would find having to find her lair irritating (mine won't), but it isn't a wise choice to sit and await their return.