WoW: Mythic Campaign based on Mist of Pandaria, ending with the siege of Ogrimmar

[Eltacolibre]

So I'm thinking of running a mythic campaign based on WoW with the Mist of Pandaria expansion. It would allow all kind of madness and crazy stuffs to happen while including all the races and possible classes. So looking mostly for advice and the likes. For races, going to use the ones converted by Diodric in this thread: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2kd7t&page=last?World-of-Warcraft-Gets-The- Pathfinder-Treatment

As they are frankly a pretty neat conversion overall.

So let's talk classes, starting level, mythic tiers and what kind of challenges that I should put them through:

-The WoW rogues are mostly ninjas and/or trapsmith type of rogues.
- Shaman, I guess they are mostly druids, unless someone has other suggestions?

-I don't mind psionics, so if some classes would be more fitting fluffed as psionics, just let me know.

Essentially just looking for simple conversions, no need to rewrite a new entire new class, got the races down already so no worries about it. So toss me all your advice and ideas to make it mythic and an epic good adventure.

[Detect Magic]

I've always thought the magus was a good chassis for the shaman class, what with enchanting one's weapon with flaming, frost, etc. Spellstrike also seems to fit well, though as divine spellcasters they'd probably have an entirely different spell list (more akin to the druid spell list, though with more elemental-damage spells). Also, as divine spellcasters, they'd likely get medium armor proficiency proficiency from 1st-level onward (instead of waiting 'till 7th-level). Maybe replace that ability, along with heavy armor at 13th-level, with some sort of elemental binding ability (similar to the wizard's true name discovery or the sacred servant paladin's "call celestial ally" ability).

[Eltacolibre]

Magus Shaman is actually very fitting, I'll work on a spell list , druid inspired while borrowing some elemental damage from sorc/wiz spell list.

[Drejk]

Nothing constructive, just a funny coincidence:

I return home just to discover that my mother bought World Of Warcraft RPG for one pound on car boot sale and then I open Paizo messageboard and see this thread...

I think that enhancement shaman could be either magus archetype (granting some dual weapon capacity instead of classic spell combat) or ranger alternate class.

[Eltacolibre]

I'll probably take some inspiration from the elemental knight racial archetype for Suli since they don't exist as a race, might be very fitting for enhancement shaman.

[Detect Magic]

Here's a ranger revision that I think better emulates Warcraft's "hunter" (pieced together from the slayer playtest and trapper archetype).

Hunter's Mark (Ex):

At 1st level, a hunter can study an opponent he can see as a move action. The hunter then gains a +1 bonus on Bluff, Knowledge, Perception, Sense Motive, and Survival checks against that opponent, a +1 bonus on weapon and damage rolls against it, and a +1 bonus to the DC of hunter class abilities against opponent. These bonuses remain in effect until either the opponent is dead or the hunter studies a new target.

At 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th levels, the hunter's bonuses against a studied target increase by +1. In addition, at each such interval, the hunter is able to maintain these bonuses against an additional studied target at the same time. The hunter may lose this connection to a studied target as a free action (allowing him to study another target in its place).

At 7th level, the hunter can study an opponent as a swift action.

This would replace the ranger's favored enemy ability.

Trap (Ex):

At 5th level, a hunter learns how to create a snare trap and one other hunter trap of his choice.

At 7th level and every two levels thereafter, he learns another trap. The hunter can use these traps a total number of times per day equal to 1/2 his hunter level + his Wisdom modifier. Once a trap is learned, it can’t be unlearned and replaced with a different type of trap. The hunter cannot select an individual trap more than once.

This would replace the ranger's spells and would work exactly as listed in the trapper archetype.

Launch Trap (Ex):

At 10th level, a hunter can affix a magical hunter trap to an arrow, crossbow bolt, or thrown weapon, allowing him to set the trap remotely or use it as a direct attack. Attaching the trap to the projectile is part of the full-round action of creating a new trap. The trapped projectile is fired or thrown in the normal manner. If fired at a square, the trap is treated as if the hunter had set the trap in that square, except the DC is 5 lower than normal. If fired at a creature, the target takes damage from the ranged weapon and is treated as if it had triggered the trap (saving throw applies, if any). The attack has a maximum range of 60 feet, and range increments apply to the attack roll. The duration of the trapped projectile starts from when it is created, not from when it is used.

Quarry (Ex):

At 14th level, a hunter can as a standard action denote one target within his line of sight as his quarry. Whenever he is following the tracks of his quarry, a hunter can take 10 on his Survival skill checks while moving at his normal speed, without penalty. In addition, he receives a +2 insight bonus on attack rolls made against his quarry, and all critical threats are automatically confirmed. A slayer can have no more than one quarry at a time and the creature must be marked by the hunter. He can dismiss this effect at any time as a free action, but he cannot select a new quarry for 24 hours. If the hunter sees proof that his quarry is dead, he can select a new quarry after waiting 1 hour.

This would replace the ranger's ability of the same name.

Improved Quarry (Ex):

At 19th level, the hunter's ability to hunt his quarry improves. He can now select a quarry as a free action, and can now take 20 while using Survival to track his quarry, while moving at normal speed without penalty. His insight bonus to attack his quarry increases to +4. If his quarry is killed or dismissed, he can select a new one after 10 minutes have passed.

This would replace the ranger's ability of the same name.

Master Hunter (Ex):

A hunter of 20th level becomes a master hunter. He can always move at full speed while using Survival to follow tracks without penalty. He can, as a standard action, make a single attack against a marked target at his full attack bonus. If the attack hits, the target takes damage normally and must make a Fortitude save or die. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the hunter's level + the hunter's Wisdom modifier. A hunter can choose instead to deal an amount of nonlethal damage equal to the creature's current hit points. A successful save negates this damage. Whether the target succeeds, it cannot be targeted by this ability (by any hunter) for 24 hours.

This would replace the ranger's ability of the same name.

[Detect Magic]

Also, created this for the hunter based on the sting ability listed in the World of Warcraft RPG (though I'm not sure it's needed).

Sting (Su):

At 2nd level, a hunter can conjure poisons and apply them to projectiles as he fires or throws them. Once per day, before making an attack roll with a ranged weapon, the hunter can declare that the attack is a sting. If the attack hits and deals damage, the target must save against poison. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the hunter's level + the hunter's Wisdom modifier.

Serpent Sting: The attack deals additional 1d4+1 points of damage each round for a number of rounds equal to the hunter's level if the target fails a Fortitude save; the target receives an additional saving throw each round to prematurely end the sting's effect.

Scorpid Sting: The attack deals 1d6 points of Strength or Dexterity damage if the target fails a Fortitude save (hunter's choice).

Viper Sting: The attack suppresses the target's ability to cast spells for a number of rounds equal to the hunter's level if the target fails a Will save; the target receives an additional saving throw each round to prematurely end the sting's effect.

At 6th level, and every four levels thereafter, the hunter gains an additional daily usage of this ability.

This would replace the ranger's combat style bonus feats.

And finally, I put together the following feats (modeled after the "style" feats for monks).

Aspect Feats:

As a swift action, you can enter the aspect each feat embodies. You can dismiss an aspect at any time as a free action (allowing you to assume another aspect in its place).

Aspect of the Cheetah
The hunter moves much more swiftly while emulating the cheetah.
Prerequisites: Hunter level 3rd.
Benefit: While adopting this aspect, your lands speed increases by +10 feet.

Aspect of the Hawk
The hunter's perception is heightened while emulating the hawk.
Prerequisites: Hunter level 3rd.
Benefit: While adopting this aspect, you double the range increment of any ranged or throwing weapon you wield. This benefit doesn't stack with any other effects that expand the range increment of a weapon (such as the distance weapon property).

Aspect of the Monkey
The hunter becomes more difficult to hit emulating the monkey.
Prerequisites: Hunter level 3rd.
Benefit: While adopting this aspect, you gain a +2 bonus on Acrobatics checks. In addition, when an opponent targets you with a melee or ranged attack, you can spend an immediate action to make an Acrobatics check. You can use the result as your AC or touch AC against that attack. You must be aware of the attack and not flat-footed.

[Eltacolibre]

@detect magic: this is actually very nice. Yeah I was almost waiting for the final version of the ACG to use for the hunters but must admit that simply tweaking rangers with these options would be pretty good.

Warlocks are obviously Summoner. The ability to merge with eidolon would indeed make good demonic transformation. Lack a bit of the blasting power but well the dots mechanics don't translate well anyway.

Death Knight, Knight of the Sepulcher Antipaladin archetype, would just tweak the alignment available. Undead Lord(cleric) for those who wants to focus on minions and undead. Oracle of Bones is a possibility too.

Priest are clerics or Oracle of life...yup, not much else to say.

Warrior are mostly barbarians with the rage mechanic, don't see what much else to say. Even the ability to use big weapons in two hands with the titan mauler archetype. Fighters would be available too but fluff wise, barbarian seems to be more fitting.

Marksman: Gunslinger, done.

Monks: Got enough archetypes to make any kind of monk, healing monk? we got this. Drunken master? Yes. Quiggong and monk of the four winds, for various spiritual/mystic monks.

Mage: Wizard or Sorcerer depending of your fluff. (Evocation seems to be a preferred school on Azeroth)

Paladin: Many paladin archetypes, can fit most paladin concepts, so it's all good.

[Diodric]

I updated those races to be a little more balanced after that post.
Link

[Eltacolibre]

Thanks man for keeping me up to date, really enjoy your work on the warcraft races.

[Diodric]

Not a problem, I'm glad someone had a use for them. I never did get around to finishing the subraces, though.

[Eltacolibre]

It's alright for the kind of game I'm planning most of the subraces won't be necessary unless one of my players really want to request one but I don't think so.

[Diodric]

I would also recommend for the Shaman using the Bard as a chassis. The bardic performance is a decent mechanic for Heroism. There's also a few archtypes like the thundercaller or the savage skald that fit thematically.

[Nathanael Love]

The thing about Shaman that no class in PF has are the totems--somewhat they work akin to 3.5 Dragon Shaman's abilities in that you drop them and provide the party a series of effects.

You could do it like that for the static effect ones and have a few of the temp ones be spells.

You could also make the flametongue totem a companion that advances like the druid's animal companion. . . .

Shadow Priests could be made as an Archetype of Cleric--
Here's a quick try:

Spoiler:

Shadow Priest[/bold] Cleric Archetype

[b]Weapons and Armor Proficiency: Shadow Priests are proficient only with light armor and are not proficient with shields.

Dominion over Shadow Magic: At first level the Shadow Priest gains the ability to cast any spell that channels negative energy with a range of touch at a range of 30 ft. instead. In addition, they may prepare and cast these spells in place of domain spells. This ability replaces the two domains gained at first level.

Deepening Shadows: At 3rd and then again at 5th level the Shadow Priest gains access to one of the following domains: Darkness, Death, Fire, Healing, or Protection.

[Eltacolibre]

Bard hmmm I didnt think of that but potentially the way shaman buffs people, bard sounds like a sound choice.

[Diodric]

I always really liked the 3.5 Dragon Shaman re-fluffed as a WoW Shaman too.

There are a few Bard archtypes that stack (or close enough), Eltaco, that you could potentially make a whole new shaman class built off the bard. Thundercaller and Songhealer come to mind. Or if you don't mind using the homebrew stuff check out Elghinn Lightbringer's Multiclass Archtype threads or his MCA website. There are a lot of *really* neat archtypes that could fit the WoW classes. In addition, you could use the bloodrager from the ACG as a shaman, making the bloodrage class feature into a personal bloodlust/heroism that isn't shared with allies. Or even use multiple classes based off of which spec a player wants to you. Bloodrager for enhancement, bard or ACG skald for elemental/restoration.

Shaman was my main so I've thought about this a lot, just never put much to paper so I don't really have much to link you. The other classes I'd have to do some research I really don't have the google-fu for right now.

What I had rolling around in my head was more of a "the spirit of WoW" conversion than a straight up converstion like was Detect Magic was posting above.

[Eltacolibre]

I went to check the multiclass archetypes and there is indeed a lot to read on there but might find something that is perfectly fitting for the classes.

[Diodric]

I think over the next few days I'm going to start "converting" the classes. By convert I mean a methodical butchering off the archetypes into an undead monstrosity that more or less shoe-horns the Pathfinder classes into a pseudo likeness of the Warcraft classes.

Current plan of attack:
All classes will have 3 archetypes based on the talent trees. Druids will not have a separate Guardian/Feral archetype, and Death Knights will be a Prestige Class with its own archetypes that will make the character into a creature with an Undead subtype.

Edit: For typos.

[Eltacolibre]

I'm curious to see what you will come up with and I'm also curious to see all the archetypes coming for base classes and advanced classes from the Advanced Class Guide, it's already coming out by the end of next week, pretty excited.

[Detect Magic]

It sounds like a massive headache. Lots of work, but good luck! I'm also interested in seeing what you come up with.

[Diodric]

An uncredited wise man (or woman, I suppose) once said, "Do something you love and you'll never 'work' a day in your life."

Edit: I think I've changed my mine and decided to do a 4th spec for some classes. Namely Druid, Monk, and Shaman. Druids will have Guardian and Feral. Monk, I think I would like to try and have one spec based off of each of the Celestials. Also one spec based off each element for the Shaman (so finally a Shaman tank).

[Adjule]

I have also been attempting to convert the WoW classes (not those published in the warcraft d20 books). Went on wowpedia and copied down the abilities (even those removed, like a large majority of shaman totems). Curious about what you come up with.

[Diodric]

Funny, I was just coming back to post an update. I've spent a few hours doing research on the classes. It was going ok until I went to Elghinn's MCA website I mentioned above for some inspiration...

Seriously, those guys that work on those MCAs do a hell of a job and anything better I could hack and cobble back together. Within 10 mins I found archetypes that could fit *several* WoW classes.

I believe doing a literal conversion spell for spell (or thereabouts) is folly. There's too much "game" that I don't think d20 is built for. (The first class I was researching was the Balance Druid. How do you make a full caster and even better full caster??)

I would personally go for a "spirit of" conversion that captures the essence of the class. With a small amount of refluffing you could probably find 90% of the classes on the MCA site.

I think I may transition into that project: Refluffing the MCAs into WoW compatible classes.

[Nathanael Love]

The key to WoW classes is that they are three classes (the specs) but still a single class as well.

Druid has three-- Balance Druid, Bear and Cat (Shapeshifting Druid) and Healing Druid.

Healing needs abilities that take the 3.X/PF druid from 2nd tier healer up to full power healer.

Shapeshifting Druid needs abilities that make its wildshape a more powerful/attractive option, at the expense of spells.

Balance Druid you need to add direct, damaging spells to the list that PF druid does not have access to.

Also-- the energy types of damage that PF operates on don't work for the WoW world. Some of them cross over, but you need to add "Arcane" and "Shadow" and "Holy" damage types at a minimum.

[Zilfrel Findadur]

Nathanael Love wrote:

The key to WoW classes is that they are three classes (the specs) but still a single class as well.

Druid has three-- Balance Druid, Bear and Cat (Shapeshifting Druid) and Healing Druid.

Healing needs abilities that take the 3.X/PF druid from 2nd tier healer up to full power healer.

Shapeshifting Druid needs abilities that make its wildshape a more powerful/attractive option, at the expense of spells.

Balance Druid you need to add direct, damaging spells to the list that PF druid does not have access to.

Also-- the energy types of damage that PF operates on don't work for the WoW world. Some of them cross over, but you need to add "Arcane" and "Shadow" and "Holy" damage types at a minimum.

Arcane=force. holy=radiant. Shadow=necrotic. nuff said.

[Nathanael Love]

Arcane is not equal to Force. Even suggesting as such shows you have no concept of the setting of Warcraft. Arcane is a distinct and unique thing in and of itself.

An Arcane Mage is definitely not a Wizard who uses Force spells.

[Adjule]

Radiant and Necrotic damage don't exactly exist in Pathfinder, though are things in 5th edition D&D. Force damage is labeled as "pure arcane energy" but is a different thing compared to arcane damage from World of Warcraft. It also doesn't have acid, electric, or sonic damage descriptors in WoW, either (acid [earth] and electric damage would basically be WoW's nature damage).

I don't think the d20 Warcraft books had an Arcane damage descriptor or not. But adding it in could change a few things. Shadow damage could be pathfinder's negative energy, but to make holy damage be pathfinder's positive energy, you would need to change a few things around (since not only undead can be harmed by positive/holy energy).

[Diodric]

Nathanael Love wrote:

Arcane is not equal to Force. Even suggesting as such shows you have no concept of the setting of Warcraft. Arcane is a distinct and unique thing in and of itself.

An Arcane Mage is definitely not a Wizard who uses Force spells.

Right, Force doesn't equal Arcane. However, this is a conversion, not a re-write. As someone who's played WoW since open beta (not trying to be that guy, just making a point), I was considering simply making the Arcane Mage as a Force Wizard. I think Force is a very easy approximate to Arcane damage without redoing the whole damage type with would be a lot of converting.

It also depends on where my personal conversions end up, but I would personally rather not have to redo all the damage types.

Update: I've been tinkering with the balance druid the last couple of days, I've got a decent rough draft I'll probably post either tonight or maybe tomorrow depending.

If Eltacolibre doesn't mind I'll just post them here or I can start a whole new thread for conversion ideas.

[Nathanael Love]

As someone who mained Arcane Mage for my entire span playing the game, simplifying it to force just seems beyond wrong. Remember, its not just Arcane Mage who uses Arcane damage types-- Moonfire and Starfall and all the moon related Balance spells are Arcane damage too--

Are you really going to give Druids Force damage as it is in PF?

Also, in PF force is characterized by no save, but lower dice types. This doesn't really fit with Arcane spells which are characterized primarily by high mana and time cost for massive damage in singular spells.

I can see the Magic Missiles= Arcane Missiles comparison. But there is nothing in PF that resembles Arcane Blast, and the way force spells are written it simply does not fit.

[Diodric]

I guess it really depends on how big of a conversion someone wants to do then. I personally never intended on converting the WoW classes spell for spell.

If one was doing a full rewrite to basically do a WoW RPG based off the Pathfinder system, then great, yes, you would have to all new damage types. I think the OP was going for more of a "If a character wanted to play an Arcane Mage-like character in Pathfinder, what would be a good build?"

To reiterate, I agree, Force doesn't equal Arcane. At the same time though, I wasn't going to make write a Wrath, Moonfire, or Starfall spell either.

Arcane Mage will be a tough conversion without it though. I wonder if there is a little known precedent for Arcane damage somewhere...

[Nathanael Love]

With Wrath, Moonfire, or Starfall you couldn't have a Balance Druid.

Without a true Arcane Blast spell you couldn't have an Arcane Mage.

Can you do a few of the WoW specs adequately with current PF and very small tweaks?

Sure-- Frost and Fire Mage could be made pretty easily, cat and bear druids no problem. . .

But to really run a WoW campaign you'd want to be able to get semi-close to at least most of the 34 WoW classes I would assume, right?

[Diodric]

Well, like I said above my planned conversions were merely a "in spirit" conversion and that WoW is too "gamey" for PF.

I think trying to "Crafterize" Pathfinder would probably get you something close to 4E... Set powers and whatnot.

/shrug.

I'm not really a designer, my whole attempt at conversion was really just bastardizing the preexisting archetypes with some tweaks. I suppose it could be done though. I'll see what I can come up with.

I'll be starting a new thread sometime to continue this discussion, I've threadjacked Eltaco's thread enough.

[LazarX]

No interest in using the actual Warcraft D20 rules themselves?

[Diodric]

I suppose you could, but that'd probably require almost as much updating, lol!

The Healer class alone contains Druids, Priests, and Shaman(s? Shamen? What's the plural of shaman anyways??).

But if you were to do a conversion like Nathanael envisioned it'd probably be great fodder for ideas.

[Eltacolibre]

With the pdf coming out for the ACG tonight/tomorrow, we might be able to match a few WoW classes to the new hybrid classes and so many archetypes. I'll definitely buy the pdf tomorrow.

[Eltacolibre]

Shaman in the ACG can shapeshift as part of their Hex...yup, they have also flame and wind spirits. Yeah look like we got our WoW shaman upcoming. Didn't check the archetypes yet but this is looking pretty good.

[Adjule]

To me, the Warcraft d20 (both the one based on Warcraft RTS and Warcraft MMORPG) didn't resemble the game IMO. Though quite a bit of it is kinda useful.

[Diodric]

Eltacolibre wrote:

Shaman in the ACG can shapeshift as part of their Hex...yup, they have also flame and wind spirits. Yeah look like we got our WoW shaman upcoming. Didn't check the archetypes yet but this is looking pretty good.

Is the Shaman still a 2/3 BAB? I think any less and it would make a poor choice for an Enhancement Shaman.

I wonder about the Bloodrager too.

I'll be getting the PDF soon.

Adjule wrote:

To me, the Warcraft d20 (both the one based on Warcraft RTS and Warcraft MMORPG) didn't resemble the game IMO. Though quite a bit of it is kinda useful.

I agree. It's useful for seeing how they translated certain class abilities.

[Eltacolibre]

They do but if you consider that you can take the battle spirit, you can get a +1 morale bonus on attack rolls and dmg passively (which increases as you level), that's without counting that you can cast spells like divine power on top of it, bull's strength etc...Shaman got their own spell list.