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I understand how "impossible" scoring a hit is against a high AC.
Sure a PC can have more (AC), few ever try, why?, because GMs would complain that they have nothing that can score a hit other than with a nat 20, so, yes I can understand their frustration. On the other hand I saw the tenacity of players before they realized, hey, I am not top dog here (or top pack).
I am not saying that game mechanics are perfect or that they need to be changed, that would be another topic. In the mean time I wanna see what you think about the system as it is.
IF I was to create a character based on AC defense, it would be a fighter, with the Defender of the Society trait (+1 to AC) and the Taldor trait Expert Duelist. The thiefling's Armor of the Pit feat fits with this build as well. So, that is 4 extra armor than "normal", 5 if enough dex mod. and Armor Expert fighter class ability.
Normally, a character can have a +1 Full Plate and a +1 Tower shield for ~ 4K GP and with 14 dex that would make 31 AC right there(+ the 5 from above), level 3. +1 for dodge and +1 for shield focus fighter feats, and that's 33. Shield of faith and that is 35. So, now a +15 AB boss needs a 20 to hit, good luck! Obviously obvious, a touch attack would go around most of that armor, but I rarely see touch attacks in a 1-5 game and lets not mention the Thiefling resistances to all 4 energy types after the level 3 feat investment. The only attribute needed being 5 points in dex, while the rest can all go to con and str or whatever. Go mithral, and you can drop the tower shield for a heavy one, getting +2 to attack (yes, more dex needed but full speed ahead). Get a Sash of the war champ, and you can do it all with a level of fighter (minus the level 2 fighter feat). Got more gold? enhancements await and so on.
Everybody does this and we are talking Israel vs. Pals, inhumane : ) (poster's bias). If we consider how much more difficult it is to add AB to a roll, options like touch attacks and DC based spells, or firearms, become much more lucrative.
Now, I know I have been labeled a "power player" before, but I care most about having fun, and I have the most fun when everybody is having a good time, not just me. However, holding "punches" (or power, even healing power, or AC) on purpose seems like I like getting hit, which I naturally don't. I like specializing characters, so that they are really good at "one" thing, with as much support for that one thing as possible, but AC CANNOT be one of them, given the example.
I can see how spellcasters/firearms are good against high Nat AC monsters, how high AB creatures are good against low AC creatures, and how high CMB grappling creatures are great against spellcasters (with few anti-grapple spell caster abilities as the exceptions) so there is some argument against the "imbalance" claim, but I have not seen much of that mix in a 1-5 adventure. Maybe 3-7, 5-7, and 7-11 has some answers to the 35+ AC debacle, but animals and all non-spellcasters are just braking whatever they are swinging at you minus some 5% of resistance. Go crane style/deflect arrows and GMs will kick you off the table, lol.
With all the options/mix out there a PC can easily have the upper hand in most situations, as they should (at least in a pack), but a happy GM is another game offered and a better time for all non-sadists.
The reason I even bring this up is because I wanna make a Style Master monk with the highest progression of Snake Style at level 3 (any class at level 9). I like the idea of being a flowing, impenetrable, whirling, stunning, predicting, vehicle of doom, but as soon as it stops being funny and cool, I would just be one of those bearded, shaolin temple, monks resembling Jubei Yamada (King of Fighers) and Pai Mei (Kill Bill) (A things : ).
I guess I am just complaining that hitting high Nat AC creatures is too hard (maybe they should have more HP instead) and that Combat Maneuvers get near impossible on Large and bigger creatures, and that I don't want to be a Magus/Paladin/Barbarian just to raise my AB a little more. Thanks for reading : )
You can make characters with a very high AC, but they tend to be very slow-moving and unable to achieve much (1H weapon, -2 from tower shield). And that armour doesn't help against maneuvers, touch attacks, spells or the opponent simply avoiding the tank. In certain cases they shine (blocking a corridor full of hobgoblins) but in others they're utterly helpless (Will saves, shadows, climbing out of a pit).
So they can be unfun in two ways: unfun for the opponent who gets frustrated, and unfun for the player who can't do anything.
A tank monk can certainly be mobile, but still won't achieve a lot.
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I guess I am just complaining that hitting high Nat AC creatures is too hard (maybe they should have more HP instead) and that Combat Maneuvers get near impossible on Large and bigger creatures, and that I don't want to be a Magus/Paladin/Barbarian just to raise my AB a little more. Thanks for reading : )
Your welcome. However, I've a few suggestions.
1. Don't take this as some form of elitism, but instead realize that each type of enemy has certain strengths and weaknesses and you have to learn to accept that some tactics are going to be more or less effective at the current task. If your opponent has extreme physical AC, start chucking alchemist fires or something, or start debuffing them to take them apart, or debufff and buff as well.
If your enemy flies, draw a ranged weapon and keep pelting them since flying creatures rarely have cover. Don't complain that it's not fair that the foe flies when your main tactic is killing something with a sword.
In essence, AC is only one of several routes to kill something. Classes that revolve around piercing AC do so (most core martials), especially post-buffs. Fight your enemy on terms that are less favorable to them.
If your enemy is a turtle, punish him for it. Outmaneuver him, pick him apart from a distance. Use your terrain to your advantage (get the +1 bonus to hit for being higher than the dude who can't climb out of a 3ft. hole in the ground). Don't complain that he's a turtle.
2. If your GM gets his jollies by hitting PCs and is getting upset because a player specialized in defense, find a better GM. All that is going to lead to is an arms war between a bad GM and the party, or the party will learn that letting the NPCs hit them means weaker NPCs and push all their resources into offense; then the game becomes rocket-tag.
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A while back (running 3.5 pre-Pathfinder), one player in my group had a very high AC compared to the rest of the party. It really was the situation of, foes that could hit his AC would auto-hit everyone else.
As GM, I actually appreciated the fact he had a high AC, as when a fight was going against the PCs, I could have the enemies focus more attacks on him, knowing very few hits would go through. I got to the point where I relied on that fact to help me re-balance fights mid-way through.
Unfortunately, this ended up backfiring on all of us. The player in question drew a lot more foes to attack him, so he ended up getting hit almost as often (total hits/damage, not percentage of hits) as everyone else. So even though I thought he was enjoying things because he could see how often the enemies missed him, I didn't realize until too late that he came to feel that his super-high AC wasn't really benefitting him.
I've seen the opposite happen, though - a PC with high defenses is pointless for the enemy to attack, so instead of going after him, they ignore him to go after his "squishier" allies.
I guess my point is - make sure you're on the same page with your GM when going for this sort of concept. Do you want to attract (and hopefully shrug off) a ton of attacks, or do you prefer to be seen as the impossible target (ignored by cannon fodder, but occasionally drawing the ire of a special foe designed just to get past your high defenses)?
And be sure you and your GM communicate if it ever starts being, as you said, "funny and cool" for either of you, or seems to be irritating the rest of the group.
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You can make characters with a very high AC, but they tend to be very slow-moving and unable to achieve much (1H weapon, -2 from tower shield). And that armour doesn't help against maneuvers, touch attacks, spells or the opponent simply avoiding the tank. In certain cases they shine (blocking a corridor full of hobgoblins) but in others they're utterly helpless (Will saves, shadows, climbing out of a pit).
So they can be unfun in two ways: unfun for the opponent who gets frustrated, and unfun for the player who can't do anything.
A tank monk can certainly be mobile, but still won't achieve a lot.
A fighter can achieve quite a bit with a high AC, as long as your sole measure of character worth is not DPR.
Jorn Duersten_10
Male Dwarf Fighter 10
LG Medium humanoid (dwarf)
Init +3; Senses darkvision 60 ft.; Perception +13
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Defense
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AC 33, touch 14, flat-footed 30 (+12 armor, +6 shield, +2 Dex, +1 natural, +1 deflection, +1 dodge)
hp 104 (10d10+40)
Fort +12, Ref +7, Will +6 (+3 vs. fear); +4 vs. effects that cause you to lose your grip on weapons, +2 vs. poison, +4 vs. spells and spell-like abilities
Defensive Abilities bravery +3, defensive training (+4 dodge bonus to AC vs. giants)
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Offense
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Speed 30 ft.
Melee +3 warhammer +17/+12 (1d8+19/19-20/×3)
Ranged +1 composite longbow +14/+9 (1d8+4/×3)
Special Attacks +1 on attack rolls against goblinoid and orc humanoids, weapon trainings (hammers +4, bows +3)
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Statistics
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Str 18, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 14, Wis 11, Cha 5
Base Atk +10; CMB +12 (+20 using warhammer); CMD 28 (32 vs. disarm, 32 vs. sunder)
Feats Combat Patrol[APG], Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Critical (warhammer), Mobility, Power Attack, Stand Still, Steel Soul[APG], Step Up, Weapon Focus (warhammer), Weapon Specialization (warhammer)
Traits defender of the society, militant merchant
Skills Acrobatics +2 (+7 to jump), Climb +1, Handle Animal +1, Knowledge (dungeoneering) +15, Perception +13 (+14 to determine if surprised), Survival +4, Swim +1; Racial Modifiers craftsman
Languages Common, Dwarven, Giant, Goblin
SQ armor training 2, mountaineer, rock stepper
Other Gear +2 full plate, +2 darkwood tower shield, +1 composite longbow, +3 warhammer, amulet of natural armor +1, boots of striding and springing, cape of free will +2/+3, gloves of dueling, cracked dusty rose prism ioun stone, ring of protection +1, 8 gp
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Special Abilities
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Bravery +3 (Ex) +3 to Will save vs. Fear
Cape of free will +2/+3 Spend 1 power as immediate action to reroll failed Will save.
Combat Patrol (+10') Full-round action: increase your threatened area by +10' until your next turn.
Combat Reflexes (3 AoO/round) Can make extra attacks of opportunity/rd, and even when flat-footed.
Craftsman +2 on Craft/Profession checks related to metal/stone.
Darkvision (60 feet) You can see in the dark (black and white vision only).
Defender of the Society +1 trait bonus to Armor Class when wearing medium or heavy armor.
Defensive Training +4 Gain a dodge bonus to AC vs monsters of the Giant subtype.
Gloves of dueling These supple gloves grant the wearer a +4 bonus to her CMD against disarm attacks, attempts to sunder her wielded weapons, and effects that cause her to lose her grip on her weapons (such as grease). The wearer doesn't drop held weapons when panicked or stunned. If the wearer has the weapon training class feature and is using an appropriate weapon, her weapon training bonus increases by +2.
Construction
Requirements Craft Wondrous Item, greater magic weapon; Cost 7,500 gp
Hatred +1 Gain a racial bonus to attacks vs Goblinoids/Orcs.
Militant Merchant You gain a +1 trait bonus to Perception checks made to determine surprise.
Mobility +4 to AC vs. AoO provoked by moving out of or through a threatened area.
Mountaineer Retain Dex bonus on narrow/slippery surfaces, immune to altitude sickness.
Power Attack -3/+6 You can subtract from your attack roll to add to your damage.
Rock Stepper Ignore rubble, broken ground, or steep stairs when taking 5 ft step.
Stand Still When taking an AoO, you can make a combat maneuver check to end opponent's movement instead of attacking.
Steel Soul Hardy's save vs. spells and spell-like abilities becomes +4
Step Up When a foe makes a 5 ft step away from you, you can move 5 ft to follow them.
Weapon Training (Bows) +3 (Ex) +3 Attack, Damage, CMB, CMD with Bows
Weapon Training (Hammers) +4 (Ex) +4 Attack, Damage, CMB, CMD with Hammers
A high enough AC to avoid most attacks, high mobility, decent saves, battlefield control, and deals decent damage for one-handed. (Yes, a scimitar would be a straight upgrade, but it is a dwarf.)