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I think you're mistaking what an elemental is. It's made up of water as it's being; it's not a continuous fountain that produces water. If it left everything wet, it would slowly (or quickly depending on the amounts left) be killing itself. It doesn't leave it's body parts on other things any more than anything else does. So unless that druid in human form is leaving his flesh everywhere every time he touches something, I don't know why you're assuming he would in elemental form...
Well, technically speaking people do leave skin cells pretty much everywhere they go. It's just in such minute amounts that it's insignificant. Leaving a trail of puddles and mud, on the other hand, would have an impact pretty quickly unless the elemental was replenishing its lost mass just as fast.
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Letting a fire elemental essentially have free access to the ignite cantrip and a water elemental free access to the create water cantrip is absolutely something that I'd allow in my games, including when I run PFS.
In PFS I'd claim it was allowed by both the "reward creative solutions" rule and the "don't be a jerk rule" (mostly a :-) on the second one).
Letting a fire elemental essentially have free access to the ignite cantrip and a water elemental free access to the create water cantrip is absolutely something that I'd allow in my games, including when I run PFS.
In PFS I'd claim it was allowed by both the "reward creative solutions" rule and the "don't be a jerk rule" (mostly a :-) on the second one).
How is saying no being a jerk in this case?
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Perhaps he's talking about the reincarnated druid archetype.I am. It's pretty nuts.Many Lives (Ex): At 5th level, if a reincarnated druid is killed, she may automatically reincarnate (as the spell) 1 day later. The reincarnated druid appears in a safe location within 1 mile of her previous body. At will for the next 7 days, she can sense the presence of her remains as if using locate object as a spell-like ability. If she is killed during these 7 days, she remains dead and does not reincarnate. The many lives ability does not function if the reincarnated druid is slain by a death effect. A reincarnated druid cannot be raised from the dead or resurrected, though she can be reincarnated.He should hope he will never be killed by a death effect or a undead that turn you in an undead, as he can't be resurrected and reincarnate don't work if you died that way.Diego I know how it works. Those two qualifiers are very specific. You could go a whole campaign without dealing with undead who make spawn or death effects. Not only that, but the Reincarnated Druid also gets a +4 against Death Effects and has a Strong Fort and Will save. At 20th level and even earlier, he fails your average CR 20 creature's primary death effect on a one with proper gear. Plus Druids can get Deathward.
The odds of getting turned into a spawn are quite low. In all the games I've played I've never seen it happen to a party member. Usually because I'm the one playing a Cleric and a Cleric who doesn't have scrolls of Deathward/prepared it is a Cleric who really wants to deal with expensive restorations.
Critical hit by a shadow, 10 point of dexterity damage. Death e undeath in a single hit.
I have seen it happen.Make it 2 attack, 1 in the surprise round, 1 before the druid act. Same thing.
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"I'm the one playing a Cleric and a Cleric who doesn't have scrolls of Deathward/prepared it is a Cleric who really wants to deal with expensive restorations."
1 minute/level. You really have it running constantly when fighting undead?
With a 9th level druid after 18 minutes you say "now I go home, I will return tomorrow"?
expensive restoration = 100 gp and a 4th level spell
Death ward scroll for a druid = 1 feat, 562,5 gp, 2 full day for writing the scroll
or
700 gp to buy a scroll penned by a NPC
One part you seem to be missing is that reincarnate doesn't automatically bring him back as the same race, which is determined randomly, which can mean that the concepts are limited to ones that aren't disrupted by the potentially perpetual change in physical stats, and they have to deal with the social implications of suddenly becoming an orc or goblin. Add in the negative levels, and there are plenty of reasons for this character to dread dying.
Diego I know how it works. Those two qualifiers are very specific. You could go a whole campaign without dealing with undead or death effects. Not only that, but the Reincarnated Druid also gets a +4 against Death Effects and has a Strong Fort and Will save. At 20th level, he fails your average CR 20 creature's primary death effect on a one with proper gear.Oh no light penalties in exchange for physical immortality. Roleplaying opportunities and 2,000gp of Restorations.
As for general build details, Druids are one of the most versatile classes in the game.
And drum roll please. To change permanently back to whatever race you used to be is a grand total of 1200 gold to purchase a Polymorph Any Object spell to be cast on you.
Let's see the rules you soo lightly disregard:
1) 2.000 gp and 8 days as you can't remove more than 1 negative level/week;
2) You can't have 2 polymorph effects on you at the same time, so if your polymorphed druid want to use wild shape it will have to accept the new polymorph effect, an effect that will cancel Polymorph Any Object
More than a drum roll it seem a raspberry.
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My singular time playing PFS, the GM wouldn't let me light a torch with a fire elemental, since it cannot do that according to the rules. So I'm inclined to agree with Kwauss. I'm okay with players at the very least, using it to make small amounts of water.This is the problem I'm having perpetually with the forum people or PFS people in general. You have an ability whose name implies getting things wet, and has a mechanism that would involve getting things wet, but since 'it doesn't say it does', it doesn't happen. This attitude is more appropriate for a MMORPG or playing 4E than playing a RPG like PF. As a GM, I'm not going to let you put out a campfire using Drench without it looking like you dumped a huge bucket of water on it (and generating mud).
"No wait," says the PFS player, "this book states it puts out fires, not that it makes things wet."
My issue is that if the designers didn't want it to be putting fires out by dropping water all over it, it would be named 'extinguish'. That's applying a modicum of common sense by reading the description of the ability, and in direct conflict with the 'it doesn't say it does' mentality. I'm concerned it's influencing a whole generation of gamers negatively.
So you would allow a water elemental (or druid in the form of one) to akt as a source for drinking water?
Or to irrigate a field?
The burn ability say that it will set on fire things that it attack if they fail a reflex save.
If he "attack" a torch it will set it on fire.
I rescind my statement on Polymorph Any Object.
The likelihood of a Shadow(Which deals Strength damage by the way, a stat most Druids have a solid amount of) getting the jump on the party and managing to score a higher initiative before it can be dealt with is slim.
Which again is a very specific circumstance that has the possibility of never occurring.
As for Restorations and Deathward, those are simply a matter of business the Druid is likely to keep in stock since it's quite easy to plan around.
Deathward is on hand if you know you're going to be fighting undead. You cast it when you spot the dangerous undead since to do so preemptively could waste it. Druids make amazing scouts so it's hardly unheard of.
And yeah, it takes another week to get the other negative level off but it's only a small penalty that is negated by Deathward.
Regardless, the Druid still has access to immortality. Even if it has to jump through a few hoops. Which quite frankly changes a huge portion of how a game might be played since a Druid can literally wait out a lot of enemies.
Regardless, the Druid still has access to immortality. Even if it has to jump through a few hoops. Which quite frankly changes a huge portion of how a game might be played since a Druid can literally wait out a lot of enemies.
A few very expensive hoops, not the least of which is time. Time in which the rest of the party still has to deal with the problem, minus a party member; time during which the bad guys are also learning from battle, and adjusting accordingly; and time for any number of other game changing occurrences that the druid is unable to do anything about, or sometimes even know about. Time is the most precious commodity a PC has in any campaign because it is the commodity that the PC has the least control over. Giving up what little control they have over immediate events in order to be around and able to maybe do something about it a week or two later is a major price, and that's before you get into the price for acquiring and maintaining all the spells you need to get back to full strength.
Believe me, any competent DM is going to be able to manipulate the results from that ability and make the player think twice about relying on it any more than absolutely necessary. It's cool and, if used wisely, can be very powerful, but one thing it does not grant is the ability to control the fallout from missing out on the stuff while still recovering or the ability to fully maintain and access all the spells needed while recovering. The druid rarely has the luxury of simply waiting his opponents out, and even if they have the luxury once, people will figure out his weakness, and behave accordingly after the first couple of times. Like most really good tactics the system provides, it's best used sparingly and only in situations that have been setup precisely to deal with it. As a general tactic with little thought put into how it's used, it will hurt the character far more than the rest of the world or campaign.
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I rescind my statement on Polymorph Any Object.
The likelihood of a Shadow(Which deals Strength damage by the way, a stat most Druids have a solid amount of) getting the jump on the party and managing to score a higher initiative before it can be dealt with is slim.
Which again is a very specific circumstance that has the possibility of never occurring.
As for Restorations and Deathward, those are simply a matter of business the Druid is likely to keep in stock since it's quite easy to plan around.
Deathward is on hand if you know you're going to be fighting undead. You cast it when you spot the dangerous undead since to do so preemptively could waste it. Druids make amazing scouts so it's hardly unheard of.
And yeah, it takes another week to get the other negative level off but it's only a small penalty that is negated by Deathward.
Regardless, the Druid still has access to immortality. Even if it has to jump through a few hoops. Which quite frankly changes a huge portion of how a game might be played since a Druid can literally wait out a lot of enemies.
Not so amazing scout in human form, in elemental/animal form they can't use a scroll.
Shadow CE Medium undead (incorporeal)
The last bit mean that they can hide in a wall, ceiling or floor. It is very hard to detect them as they have total concealment, while they can sense the presence of a creature in the nearby square. 5' step and attack with a incorporeal touch is a great way to start a battle.
That druid has no more access to immortality than any other character in a party where someone can cast resurrection.
He exchange the automatic, no cost reincarnation with the impossibility to be raised or resurrected.
Let's ask the big question:
the druid is reincarnated a day later, in a safe location within 1 mile from his body. So we have a guy with 2 negative level, naked, in the middle of an hostile territory (1 mile from the location in which he was killed), with half of his remaining spells and no spell components.
He has no rested, prayed, or anything, so he is left with whatever wild shapes uses he had left.
"all physical ills and afflictions are repaired", so any curse, mental damage and so on is still in effect (I think that drained stat will stay drained even if they are physical stats, but that is debatable).
It seem a good recipe for a hard survival test.
So, the question: what are the druid chance of surviving his reincarnation? especially if he try to find his body to recover his possessions?
Unless he use a lot of metagame knowledge and react to what his companions have done after his death, he is in a bad situation.
Oh, BTW, take this metal shield. Say bye bye to "immortality" for the next 24 hours.
You're really persistent huh.
the druid is reincarnated a day later, in a safe location within 1 mile from his body. So we have a guy with 2 negative level, naked, in the middle of an hostile territory
Seems a bit contradictory.
Also you seem to be forgetting the rest of the party whom could be attempting to reunite the party(It's really not that difficult, a simple, let's meet here in case I die) but whatever. Last I checked conditions end when you die so curses or otherwise would be over.
Oh, BTW, take this metal shield. Say bye bye to "immortality" for the next 24 hours.
I don't understand what the point of this statement is. Sure I'll take it and sell it. It's not like I lose powers for just owning the thing.
But really I'm no longer interested in continuing this discussion with you as your last statement is indicative of an attempt at a derogatory statement. I recommend you relax as I'm simply expressing my opinion on this quite powerful ability. Even without the Reincarnated Druid archetype, a Druid is capable of a level of versatility many wizards wish they had.
the druid is reincarnated a day later, in a safe location within 1 mile from his body. So we have a guy with 2 negative level, naked, in the middle of an hostile territorySeems a bit contradictory.
Well, if you die in the middle of Mordor, there's not going to be any very safe place within a mile.
Thought: a reincarnation druid could make a great recurring villain.
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What is your definition of safe location? Normally, in the rules, mean: not in a fire, not in the water, not on the middle of a volcano or on a slope on the side of a mountain.
Safe location mean "safe from immediate natural hazards".
It don't mean "away from enemies". 1 mile from where you died is probably within the area patrolled by your enemies.
Thanks Matthew Downie , Mordor is a great example.
Or in the city at the end of the RotL: a city on the top of a mountain, in the middle of a glacier, full of hostile NPC.
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Wait out an enemy? Like in "waiting for him to die of old age"?
I am sure that Tar Baphon will feel threatened by that.
AFIAK, with the possible exception of Skull and Shackles, the final enemy of the different AP were either long lived (Drow) or ageless (major fey, NPC completing a immortality ritual if not stopped, avatar of a returning god, demon, efreeti and spawn of Rovagug, immortal wizard, undead). The druid can hide on the other side of the planet and wait out them (maybe, as some will try to control the whole planet) but that will hardly change how the campaign is played, as the other character and the world will not benefit from that.
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LOL, pointing out the flaw in your opinion on that form of "immortality" is derogatory. Sure.
I was pointing out that that "immortality" can be disrupted with ease.
In theory by a 1st level spell: Beguiling Gift.
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Safe location mean "safe from immediate natural hazards.
That's a pretty poor interpretation. "Aha, but safe to me means only safe from the environment! It doesn't mean I can't spawn you next to a Troll who smashes your skull in as soon as you reincarnate!" It's downright deceptive to the very text it reads as. As written you appear in a "Safe" location. If that area is rife with angry orcs, that doesn't sound like a safe location.
Wait out an enemy? Like in "waiting for him to die of old age"?
Not entirely. Druids get spells that let them shape the world around them. Over time you could collapse the dungeon in on itself or simply hit and run over a period of time with dozens of summoned monsters. Whereas the Druid is immortal(even if limited), the enemies he's chipping away at likely have finite resources.
LOL, pointing out the flaw in your opinion on that form of "immortality" is derogatory. Sure.
I was pointing out that that "immortality" can be disrupted with ease.
In theory by a 1st level spell: Beguiling Gift.
Incredibly unlikely as it is a bard or witch spell, requires you to be within 5 ft of the Druid and requires the Druid to fail his best save and by best save, I mean a really amazing one since it's not only his best save but his casting stat as well. So...fantastic argument? Well done? You sure showed me?
What's your beef?
Wait out an enemy? Like in "waiting for him to die of old age"?Not entirely. Druids get spells that let them shape the world around them. Over time you could collapse the dungeon in on itself or simply hit and run over a period of time with dozens of summoned monsters. Whereas the Druid is immortal(even if limited), the enemies he's chipping away at likely have finite resources.
A well written foe will be able to not only outlive the druid without having to worry about dying to do so, but they will likely have a much more reliable source of resources to defend the dungeon or actively hunt the druid than the druid will consistently have to attack his foe, either directly or indirectly, unless he can convince enough other allies to help him overcome his foe's overall organization and lines of resources. Anybody that the druid is going to be able to sit and wait is not a foe that is going to hold his attention that long because there is going to be bigger fish to fry out in the world, and campaign wise, such a foe would be a mid level boss or lieutenant at best. A worthy foe capable of forcing the druid to use that particular ability is going to have more than enough resources to overwhelm the druid on his own. A single dungeon collapsing or using summoned monsters only goes so far when the opponent probably has multiple bases and people under him that can also summon monsters to defend the dungeon. The druid, for all the power of his spells, will be bringing less resources to the table, or at best the same amount, than his opponent over time, assuming that the opponent is worth worrying about.
A well written foe will be able to not only outlive the druid without having to worry about dying to do so, but they will likely have a much more reliable source of resources to defend the dungeon or actively hunt the druid than the druid will consistently have to attack his foe, either directly or indirectly, unless he can convince enough other allies to help him overcome his foe's overall organization and lines of resources. Anybody that the druid is going to be able to sit and wait is not a foe that is going to hold his attention that long because there is going to be bigger fish to fry out in the world, and campaign wise, such a foe would be a mid level boss or lieutenant at best. A worthy foe capable of forcing the druid to use that particular ability is going to have more than enough resources to overwhelm the druid on his own. A single dungeon collapsing or using summoned monsters only goes so far when the opponent probably has multiple bases and people under him that can also summon monsters to defend the dungeon. The druid, for all the power of his spells, will be bringing less resources to the table, or at best the same amount, than his opponent over time, assuming that the opponent is worth worrying about.Wait out an enemy? Like in "waiting for him to die of old age"?Not entirely. Druids get spells that let them shape the world around them. Over time you could collapse the dungeon in on itself or simply hit and run over a period of time with dozens of summoned monsters. Whereas the Druid is immortal(even if limited), the enemies he's chipping away at likely have finite resources.
That's a helluva lot of assumptions. "Well written foe", "Anybody the Druid might be able to chip away at isn't worth his time", "Worthy foe automatically has enough resources to overwhelm the druid", "multiple bases/minions who can summon monsters to oppose the druid."
And that's just one party member all of these things are apparently happening to.
Even so, these things may not even pop up on the radar till it's too late. A druid building up a water source to flood the enemy encampment, destroying key structures through summoned creatures/wracking storms, and personally assassinating a target by first slipping in as a bat with a +15 to Stealth before ranks and then morphing into something insane with 5 natural attacks tearing them apart before slipping back off into the night as a bat.
Well-well-well, thanks for the responses and advices. Now I see I wasn't proper enough. I've mistaken changing into a form and changing into a type. But I still think that this is more powerful than others. At low level druid gets bonuses almost equally to others, but hours longer, at higher level (from 10th) also gets immunity vs. bleed, critical hits and sneak attacks (and DR5/- from 12th level). No spell or class ability copies this power this long. And don't forget the first wise choice for a shape changer caster is the Natural Spell feat, therefore druid still can't speak but can cast spells.They can not normally speak in animal form, but I think there is a feat for that. However they still can not access certain components because it is melded into their form so they still need natural spell. In elemental form they can talk.
As for being wildshaped, until you get wild armor your AC will be low while you are shape changed. You also need an amulet of mighty fist to bypass magic DR or your DPR will suffer. However taking crafting feats will help out a bit.
Why would their AC be low? The Druid in my party has a Breastplate made of dragonscale sized for a Large Size Dire Tiger that he keeps in a bag and whenever he wildshapes at the start of an adventuring day he just has an ally put it on him.
Even so, these things may not even pop up on the radar till it's too late. A druid building up a water source to flood the enemy encampment, destroying key structures through summoned creatures/wracking storms, and personally assassinating a target by first slipping in as a bat with a +15 to Stealth before ranks and then morphing into something insane with 5 natural attacks tearing them apart before slipping back off into the night as a bat.
The key you're missing is that, yes, the druid can win battles on his own, but he is no better equipped to win the war than anybody else. Those kinds of tactics tend to work once or twice before the bad guys catch on and start to proactively defend against them or actively hunt the druid and exploit his weaknesses. Considering that pretty much every campaign I've ever been in has layers of bad guys, the chances of the druid just "waiting out" the big bad guy of the campaign is virtually nil. After taking out a couple of dungeons or assassinating a few trusted lieutenants, the druid's ability to act solo will be no greater than anybody else's. Every example you mentioned has countermeasures, and assassination attempts can go both ways, especially when the bad guys decide to figure out the precise limits of the druid's "immortality." Now such a druid with the backing of a well developed organization would be terrifying, but those tend to be restricted to NPC villains; PCs rarely develop that kind of resource, especially nature based classes, and those that do tend to take a fair bit to have it develop.
In the end, it's good, it's cool, but it's not the all powerful "I win" ability that you seem to think it is. It takes a lot of resources, time, effort, and allies to pull off what you are describing, none of which can be assumed to be automatically present ahead of time.
In Kingmaker the Druid can be an unstoppable force.
Army of dudes marching at your army? Have the druid become a gopher and make a small network, then have him cast devastating spells in the middle of the enemy army and decimate their morale before your own army hammers them like a blacksmith.
Need to scout an enemy position? Well your Druid can be a Squirrel, Rat, or heck even an Earth Elemental. An Earth gliding druid can't be detected by Alarm or Detect Magic and has a high enough perception check to hear conversations through a foot or more of earth.
... Wait, the druid is eating the God Wizard now? Where's my hazmat suit? The world's ending!
Seriously though.... A druid is versatile, but by no means immortal or invincible... Especially the Reincarnated druid.
Many Lives (Ex)
At 5th level, if a reincarnated druid is killed, she may automatically reincarnate (as the spell) 1 day later. The reincarnated druid appears in a safe location within 1 mile of her previous body. At will for the next 7 days, she can sense the presence of her remains as if using locate object as a spell-like ability. If she is killed during these 7 days, she remains dead and does not reincarnate. The many lives ability does not function if the reincarnated druid is slain by a death effect. A reincarnated druid cannot be raised from the dead or resurrected, though she can be reincarnated.
Emphasis bold is mine....
Yeah... That's definitely immortal.
Also....
With this spell, you bring back a dead creature in another body, provided that its death occurred no more than 1 week before the casting of the spell and the subject's soul is free and willing to return.
So... If you die within a week after you reincarnate, you're DEAD. Can only be Reincarnated. To Reincarnate you, your allies have to somehow get a piece of your new body, if they can find it. Your ability doesn't function if you're killed by a death effect in any case, which means they still have only a week to take some bit of your corpse to reincarnate. Which is a moot point if someone trapped your soul, or a daemon ate it.
That said, there's nothing more fun than transmuting rock to mud way the hell down deep below an enemy encampment. Watch as their siege engines sink into the sink hole. Pair up with a Geyser or Sirrocco or something, and you've got yourself a bit of a fun time with the foes trying to escape. Who needs create pit when you got Rock to Mud!? Muwahahah!
Even so, these things may not even pop up on the radar till it's too late. A druid building up a water source to flood the enemy encampment, destroying key structures through summoned creatures/wracking storms, and personally assassinating a target by first slipping in as a bat with a +15 to Stealth before ranks and then morphing into something insane with 5 natural attacks tearing them apart before slipping back off into the night as a bat.The key you're missing is that, yes, the druid can win battles on his own, but he is no better equipped to win the war than anybody else. Those kinds of tactics tend to work once or twice before the bad guys catch on and start to proactively defend against them or actively hunt the druid and exploit his weaknesses. Considering that pretty much every campaign I've ever been in has layers of bad guys, the chances of the druid just "waiting out" the big bad guy of the campaign is virtually nil. After taking out a couple of dungeons or assassinating a few trusted lieutenants, the druid's ability to act solo will be no greater than anybody else's. Every example you mentioned has countermeasures, and assassination attempts can go both ways, especially when the bad guys decide to figure out the precise limits of the druid's "immortality." Now such a druid with the backing of a well developed organization would be terrifying, but those tend to be restricted to NPC villains; PCs rarely develop that kind of resource, especially nature based classes, and those that do tend to take a fair bit to have it develop.
In the end, it's good, it's cool, but it's not the all powerful "I win" ability that you seem to think it is. It takes a lot of resources, time, effort, and allies to pull off what you are describing, none of which can be assumed to be automatically present ahead of time.
I've never said that it was an all powerful "I win" ability. I said it was incredibly powerful.
There are numerous campaigns where some villains aren't connected at all. In none of the scenarios I presented is the druid himself in any danger except when personally attempting to carry out an assassination. Even then, worse case scenario, he wildshapes into an earth elemental and glides away through the earth. And no, the Druid really doesn't need help accomplishing any of this. They get everything I mentioned in a nice orderly spell list. Stone Shape, Control Weather, Control Winds, Control Water, and etc. No allies, minimal time, all the while generating isolated destruction on his enemies.
In fact, interestingly enough, the ability of the Druid to easily escape diminishes slightly the immortality available to it.
The incredible difference between a Druid and a Wizard is that at the end of the day, if you catch a Wizard off guard, its a coin toss whether the Wizard lives or dies. A Druid on the other hand slips into the earth, virtually unassailable or just turns into a huge dinosaur and tears you to shreds. Better hit dice, armor, saves, and spontaneous summons.
And I'm quite honestly sure that I'm even short selling Druids here.
... Wait, the druid is eating the God Wizard now? Where's my hazmat suit? The world's ending!
Seriously though.... A druid is versatile, but by no means immortal or invincible... Especially the Reincarnated druid.
Many Lives (Ex)
At 5th level, if a reincarnated druid is killed, she may automatically reincarnate (as the spell) 1 day later. The reincarnated druid appears in a safe location within 1 mile of her previous body. At will for the next 7 days, she can sense the presence of her remains as if using locate object as a spell-like ability. If she is killed during these 7 days, she remains dead and does not reincarnate. The many lives ability does not function if the reincarnated druid is slain by a death effect. A reincarnated druid cannot be raised from the dead or resurrected, though she can be reincarnated.
Emphasis bold is mine....
Yeah... That's definitely immortal.
So... If you die within a week after you reincarnate, you're DEAD. Can only be Reincarnated. To Reincarnate you, your allies have to somehow get a piece of your new body, if they can find it. Your ability doesn't function if you're killed by a death effect in any case, which means they still have only a week to take some bit of your corpse to reincarnate. Which is a moot point if someone trapped your soul, or a daemon ate it.
I believe theres been a misinterpretation. When I say a Druid is immortal, I do not mean they are invincible. I mean that if one cares to, they can and will avoid dying.
The likelihood of dying to a death effect when you have a class ability that gives you a +4 against them and having a strong Fort and Will save is quite slim.
Not to mention a decent Constitution score!
In all seriousness a smart Druid player fulfills so many roles simultaneously it's baffling. Such a strong class with huge ammounts of narrative power!
Druids are also great at sleeping safely, just go out and find a rock to stone shape into a hollowed out tent.
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How is saying no being a jerk in this case?Letting a fire elemental essentially have free access to the ignite cantrip and a water elemental free access to the create water cantrip is absolutely something that I'd allow in my games, including when I run PFS.
In PFS I'd claim it was allowed by both the "reward creative solutions" rule and the "don't be a jerk rule" (mostly a :-) on the second one).
I did say that was mostly in jest. But it just seems SO obvious to me that a fire elemental could light flammable objects on fire that I actually would at least suspect that a GM who disallowed it was deliberately being a jerk as opposed to making what he thought was the correct ruling.
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My issue is a general one. Flavor text (or name) matters! If you ignore it, and just say 'it doesn't say it does that' you're playing the wrong game system. If it's called Drench it should drench things to put out fires. If it's Bardic performance, it should require performance (yes, this again) of some sort. If it's Lay on Hands, it doesn't say it requires you to touch with a hand, only that you have a hand free and touch someone, I'm not going to let the paladin reach out and touch a shackled prisoner with his foot to use the ability (when his hands won't reach despite being 'free', say through bars). They have names for a reason instead of being called 'paladin ability level 2a'.
If you're fighting when it's very cold out and someone hits you with a burning weapon, and your elemental buddy uses drench to put out that fire, you're going to be wet in my campaign, with appropriate risk of hypothermia (and environmental consequences).
I'd just like to see all the common posters here, who readers take as authorities (like Wraith), giving better answers than 'the ability doesn't say that so it doesn't do that', but more likely 'although not listed in the ability, it should probably by extension of the name have that effect.' Teach people how to RPG, not MMORPG, even in the rules forum, I recommend.
I'd just like to see all the common posters here, who readers take as authorities (like Wraith), giving better answers than 'the ability doesn't say that so it doesn't do that', but more likely 'although not listed in the ability, it should probably by extension of the name have that effect.' Teach people how to RPG, not MMORPG, even in the rules forum, I recommend.
The problem with this is that it encurages like "I use ray of frost to frees the wet flood to make it slippery." or "I pour water into the lock and cast ray of frost on it. When the water freezes its volume increases, cracking open the lock". Which have both things I actually read around here. And with that you can stop giving spells levels and limiting them per day. Why learn grease when ray of frost can do it?
As for elementals and touch etc, I think you'd be hard-pressed to claim you can't light something on fire as a fire elemental from an intent standpoint; it seems pretty clear to me that a fire elemental should be able to attack objects and affect them with Burn.
On water elementals, I do think drench should be considered "extinguished with water", and that a water elemental should in general be too wet to, say, make origami dragons. I wouldn't let them use it as create water though; they're not an endless fountain. Rather, I consider the water elemental to have kind of the same properties as if the water that makes up its body gravitated towards the centre - if you touch it you get wet, but it doesn't spray water everywhere. Shoving your hand into the elemental should work about the same as shoving it into a bucket of water (except the elemental would get mad, the bucket wouldn't ;)). That's how I run it at least.
In Kingmaker the Druid can be an unstoppable force.
Army of dudes marching at your army? Have the druid become a gopher and make a small network, then have him cast devastating spells in the middle of the enemy army and decimate their morale before your own army hammers them like a blacksmith.
Need to scout an enemy position? Well your Druid can be a Squirrel, Rat, or heck even an Earth Elemental. An Earth gliding druid can't be detected by Alarm or Detect Magic and has a high enough perception check to hear conversations through a foot or more of earth.
With the right support, the druid is dangerous, but that's true of all druids, regardless of archetype. Without that support, your first example is a suicide mission,, given that the enemy probably has casters of their own that can retaliate if their attention isn't fairly quickly diverted elsewhere, and scouting assumes that you have someone to report to.
the druid is reincarnated a day later, in a safe location within 1 mile from his body. So we have a guy with 2 negative level, naked, in the middle of an hostile territorySeems a bit contradictory.Well, if you die in the middle of Mordor, there's not going to be any very safe place within a mile.
Thought: a reincarnation druid could make a great recurring villain.
Well, considering that reincarnated druids gain wildshape one level after near immortality, I think their definition of a 'safe place' might be different that normal.
I mean, if you can just turn into an eagle, what stops the roof on the castle's highest tower from being a 'safe place'?
That would stop random soldiers from coup de gracing you when they spot you before you wake up at least.
And honestly, wildshaping into small birds seems like the safest thing a reincarnated druid can do for his week of cool down before he gets his 'get out jail free card'.
Hmmm I'm not sure about druids being OP but...
A battle druid is easily the best Martial.
A caster druid is pretty meh, at at least from what I've seen of them.
A balanced druid almost always has a good if not the best answer for a problem. It's like playing a normal spell caster with slightly lower DCs but none of the normal weaknesses.
They are a really fun class, but I am not sure about them being game breaking. They may just be able to do too many things well.
I've always thought that low-level druids would be the number one mage for an army to try to recruit. In big battles, Entangle is such an awesome spell it's silly. Suspecting a cavalry charge? Ready an action to cast entangle, and they'll stop right in their tracks (or at least those in a 80ft diameter circle). Need to protect your archers? Entangle. Enemy is retreating? A simple entangle will break up formations and also break morale that probably was shaky to begin with (as they are retreating). Even at first level, it has a ten round duration and a 440ft range.
In addition to Entangle, handing out Goodberries can be far more useful than casting cure light wounds since you can spread the healing out (granted, it's not nearly as powerful as Healing hex). In addition, Commune with Birds, Read Weather and Pass without Trace are useful for logistics and scouting, and Diagnose Disease can aid a lot in keeping the army healthy on a prolonged campaign.
Why would their AC be low? The Druid in my party has a Breastplate made of dragonscale sized for a Large Size Dire Tiger that he keeps in a bag and whenever he wildshapes at the start of an adventuring day he just has an ally put it on him.Well-well-well, thanks for the responses and advices. Now I see I wasn't proper enough. I've mistaken changing into a form and changing into a type. But I still think that this is more powerful than others. At low level druid gets bonuses almost equally to others, but hours longer, at higher level (from 10th) also gets immunity vs. bleed, critical hits and sneak attacks (and DR5/- from 12th level). No spell or class ability copies this power this long. And don't forget the first wise choice for a shape changer caster is the Natural Spell feat, therefore druid still can't speak but can cast spells.They can not normally speak in animal form, but I think there is a feat for that. However they still can not access certain components because it is melded into their form so they still need natural spell. In elemental form they can talk.
As for being wildshaped, until you get wild armor your AC will be low while you are shape changed. You also need an amulet of mighty fist to bypass magic DR or your DPR will suffer. However taking crafting feats will help out a bit.
Most druids I have seen have a variety of shapes they use. If they are in an area that accomodates large size creatures that works, but due to manueverability issues always being large and in a specific form has been optimal in my experience. So if the Tiger has to change into another form that armor AC will be gone. I have had to change into a medium sized creature to run someone down before. I needed to fly. Now I also admit that me having a large animal companion taking up space limited the forms I could use.
Now if you being large all day works for you then we will have to chalk it up to differences in playing experiences.
No allies, minimal time, all the while generating isolated destruction on his enemies.
The bolded part is where the druid will run into issues. While most campaigns have sections that are seemingly unrelated to each other, almost all of them end up tying together if they last long enough, and that is where all characters, even druids and wizards, lose the capacity for isolated actions. Spells and magic are good in small, easy to control, tactical scenarios, but they can be hard to control the direct use of in larger strategies that often involve multiple people in multiple locations, large battles with literally hundreds of people on either side, where the strength of magic can quickly become a problem if your enemy has more casters than your side, or managing logistics, supply lines, and lines of communication. Basically, effective and controlled use of magic doesn't scale well as you add more and more people and area to the equation, and most campaigns eventually do precisely that because random dungeon after random dungeon for 20 levels is not something that most people are going to be interested in. Even if it does remain a series of isolated events, the characters are gaining a fair bit of reputation in the world as a whole and the capabilities of magic in general are fairly well known, and all those countermeasures you claim are highly unlikely become more and more common as the opponents increase in power as well and become more and more proactive in their defenses both toward that specific druid and magical attacks in general.
It's very easy for a full caster, especially a druid or wizard, to muck up the plans of their foes; it's usually just as easy for their foes to return the favor if the expectation is being able to work effectively in isolation. The ultimate key to success is maintaining control of the situation once you wrest it away from the other guy, both tactically and strategically; magic, especially high level magic, does little to establish this key aspect of truly having an impact beyond the immediate scene. Anything the caster can do in isolation can usually easily be undone or countered by a rival caster. Throw in the sheer number of ripple effects that high level magic would have, and you could easily end up with an overwhelming local victory that ends up hurting you through the ripple effects in the surrounding areas that end up limiting your future actions.
I did say that was mostly in jest. But it just seems SO obvious to me that a fire elemental could light flammable objects on fire that I actually would at least suspect that a GM who disallowed it was deliberately being a jerk as opposed to making what he thought was the correct ruling.How is saying no being a jerk in this case?Letting a fire elemental essentially have free access to the ignite cantrip and a water elemental free access to the create water cantrip is absolutely something that I'd allow in my games, including when I run PFS.
In PFS I'd claim it was allowed by both the "reward creative solutions" rule and the "don't be a jerk rule" (mostly a :-) on the second one).
It might be fall under the rule of cool, but if he is a "by the book" GM, then I can see him not allowing it.
Hmmm I'm not sure about druids being OP but...
A battle druid is easily the best Martial.
I wouldn't say that. While druids are strong martials, there are several others too, and I think for example variants of these have notable strengths compared to druids that make them better in many situations (though not all):
Gunslinger in terms of DPR at higher levels.Paladin for being tough as nails (great saves and self-healing).
Barbarian for being tough as nails (great saves, decent HP and DR) and having great anti-caster options (nothing really can compare to Spell Sunder in terms of dispelling).
Synthesist for low-to mid level being tough as adamantine nails.
Battle Oracles I've heard to be really good, but haven't seen them in action so can't say for sure there.
Not saying druids aren't powerful in melee or that they don't have options they're basically alone in (vital strike builds for example) and they certainly have the best mobility of martial builds, but they're not "easily the best Martial".
Why would their AC be low? The Druid in my party has a Breastplate made of dragonscale sized for a Large Size Dire Tiger that he keeps in a bag and whenever he wildshapes at the start of an adventuring day he just has an ally put it on him.Well-well-well, thanks for the responses and advices. Now I see I wasn't proper enough. I've mistaken changing into a form and changing into a type. But I still think that this is more powerful than others. At low level druid gets bonuses almost equally to others, but hours longer, at higher level (from 10th) also gets immunity vs. bleed, critical hits and sneak attacks (and DR5/- from 12th level). No spell or class ability copies this power this long. And don't forget the first wise choice for a shape changer caster is the Natural Spell feat, therefore druid still can't speak but can cast spells.They can not normally speak in animal form, but I think there is a feat for that. However they still can not access certain components because it is melded into their form so they still need natural spell. In elemental form they can talk.
As for being wildshaped, until you get wild armor your AC will be low while you are shape changed. You also need an amulet of mighty fist to bypass magic DR or your DPR will suffer. However taking crafting feats will help out a bit.
Most druids I have seen have a variety of shapes they use. If they are in an area that accomodates large size creatures that works, but due to manueverability issues always being large and in a specific form has been optimal in my experience. So if the Tiger has to change into another form that armor AC will be gone. I have had to change into a medium sized creature to run someone down before. I needed to fly. Now I also admit that me having a large animal companion taking up space limited the forms I could use.
Now if you being large all day works for you then we will have to chalk it up to differences...
The feat called Narrow Frame makes being large all day not only possible but convenient.
I've always thought that low-level druids would be the number one mage for an army to try to recruit. In big battles, Entangle is such an awesome spell it's silly. Suspecting a cavalry charge? Ready an action to cast entangle, and they'll stop right in their tracks (or at least those in a 80ft diameter circle). Need to protect your archers? Entangle. Enemy is retreating? A simple entangle will break up formations and also break morale that probably was shaky to begin with (as they are retreating). Even at first level, it has a ten round duration and a 440ft range.
In addition to Entangle, handing out Goodberries can be far more useful than casting cure light wounds since you can spread the healing out (granted, it's not nearly as powerful as Healing hex). In addition, Commune with Birds, Read Weather and Pass without Trace are useful for logistics and scouting, and Diagnose Disease can aid a lot in keeping the army healthy on a prolonged campaign.
Entangle is great when there are plants around, but it hampers your own army as well as the opponent, so it can be a double edged sword. Breaking morale and forcing a retreat doesn't end up so good if your army is unable to give chase and hit the foe while they are scattered. If all you do is force them to retreat and let them regroup later, it loses a lot of it's punch. Most spells run into similar issues or the sheer number of people in an army overwhelms the capacity of the caster, especially a low level caster. Read Weather can just as easily be done by a well trained ranger with survival training, getting intel from animals in general is not the strongest idea because they aren't looking for the same stuff the army is, and a well trained and well supplied medic can do most of what healing magic can do aside from the immediate recovery aspect.
In short, the more people you add, the more casters simply get overwhelmed and magic becomes a double edged sword because it often hampers your own side as much as it does the other side. Most armies will try to have one or two casters, but a good general uses them sparingly and in specific scenarios, not as generic support for the army. Magic is useful in the right scenarios, but it's not a good way to supply the basic needs of an army.
My issue is a general one. Flavor text (or name) matters! If you ignore it, and just say 'it doesn't say it does that' you're playing the wrong game system. If it's called Drench it should drench things to put out fires. If it's Bardic performance, it should require performance (yes, this again) of some sort. If it's Lay on Hands, it doesn't say it requires you to touch with a hand, only that you have a hand free and touch someone, I'm not going to let the paladin reach out and touch a shackled prisoner with his foot to use the ability (when his hands won't reach despite being 'free', say through bars). They have names for a reason instead of being called 'paladin ability level 2a'.
If you're fighting when it's very cold out and someone hits you with a burning weapon, and your elemental buddy uses drench to put out that fire, you're going to be wet in my campaign, with appropriate risk of hypothermia (and environmental consequences).
I'd just like to see all the common posters here, who readers take as authorities (like Wraith), giving better answers than 'the ability doesn't say that so it doesn't do that', but more likely 'although not listed in the ability, it should probably by extension of the name have that effect.' Teach people how to RPG, not MMORPG, even in the rules forum, I recommend.
Flavor/fluff is basically artistic license, and I do admit it can help you decide how something is intended to work, but it is not rules.
So let's go line by line.
As for drench as long as it puts the fire out I don't think most people care if the elemental touches the fire or waves his hand in front it, or sucks the fire into his hand etc etc...
Yes I do agree the bard is performing, but not using the perform skills unless called for.
As for lay on hands it specifically calls out hands IIRC, but even if not I think the intent is clear. Requiring a hand is not giving the ability any extra power or taking away from what it is supposed to do.
When people try to use flavor to make a ruling I look at whether or not they are adding or taking anything away mechanically. That does not lead to an automatic yes or no, but if we are discussing that rules, and what is actually allowed by the game, that is different that what I think is within the realm of balance, or reasonable.
Having an elemental use their bodies in ways not written into the game can make them an unlimited water supply in a desert campaign. You air supply is running low, summon an air elemental.
Flavor text can also be restricting beyond where it should be.
GM: No you can't be a ninja because I don't like ninjas.
Player: I am using the ninja class, but my character is really an assassin.
GM: The book says it is a ninja so my answer is still no.
Now had that the same mechanics been given a different name there most likely would not have been a problem.
edit: As for the rules form the best thing to do is say the books don't allow ___, but I would recommend ____. That is what I do to let them know the rule is, but also let them know ____ is not going to hurt anything.
Well wildshape says within the first few lines "turn into an animal" which meets the "animal" prereq for the feat. It also stands to logic that a character with such control over their form would be able to become a thin version of that animal.
The feat called Narrow Frame makes being large all day not only possible but convenient.
I know about that feat. I took it for an animal companion in another game, but it does not make the animal take up less space. It is basically there to bypass squeezing so the problem is still there.
Well wildshape says within the first few lines "turn into an animal" which meets the "animal" prereq for the feat. It also stands to logic that a character with such control over their form would be able to become a thin version of that animal.
You do not turn into an animal with wildshape. You look like an animal so you do not meet the prereq. Your animal companion could take it however.
While I generally agree with you, Wraithstrike, I would still probably allow lighting the torch (though I wouldn't guarantee the elemental's response to the effort) and consider any unprotected spell components (or anything else similar in nature, really) being worn by pretty much any elemental unusable. I might even consider the getting the water or air if it's a large enough elemental, assuming that the elemental is not actively trying to avoid that particular action. There are certain properties of all the elements that can be adjusted without rewriting all the rules.
I know what the spell beast shape does, but the text in wildshape says that you turn into an animal, not assume its shape.
I know what the spell beast shape does, but the text in wildshape says that you turn into an animal, not assume its shape.
The general polymorph rules say turn into ___, but it is written that way for ease of langauge. Wildshape follow the polymorph rule which do not allow your type to change.
Wild Shape (Su): At 4th level, a druid gains the ability to turn herself into any Small or Medium animal and back again once per day. Her options for new forms include all creatures with the animal type. This ability functions like the beast shape I spell, except as noted here. The effect lasts for 1 hour per druid level, or until she changes back. Changing form (to animal or back) is a standard action and doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity. The form chosen must be that of an animal with which the druid is familiar.
They said "EXACTLY like beast shape except as noted here".
Then they list those differences. None of those differences say your subtype actually changes.
Beast shape 1 is a polymorph spell, which do not change your type.
This has come up before.
Stardust is correct. Polymorph spells do not change your type.
Jason Bulmahn
Lead Designer
Paizo Publishing
And this was calling out wildshape.
While I generally agree with you, Wraithstrike, I would still probably allow lighting the torch (though I wouldn't guarantee the elemental's response to the effort) and consider any unprotected spell components (or anything else similar in nature, really) being worn by pretty much any elemental unusable. I might even consider the getting the water or air if it's a large enough elemental, assuming that the elemental is not actively trying to avoid that particular action. There are certain properties of all the elements that can be adjusted without rewriting all the rules.
I was not discussing what is ok to allow. That is up to a GM to go beyond the rules. I was just making a point about how using flavor or fluff to justify something can lead to unexpected issues, and that people should know that flavor/fluff are not rules.
I am actually more permissive than I seem to be in the rules section.
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While I generally agree with you, Wraithstrike, I would still probably allow lighting the torch (though I wouldn't guarantee the elemental's response to the effort) and consider any unprotected spell components (or anything else similar in nature, really) being worn by pretty much any elemental unusable. I might even consider the getting the water or air if it's a large enough elemental, assuming that the elemental is not actively trying to avoid that particular action. There are certain properties of all the elements that can be adjusted without rewriting all the rules.I was not discussing what is ok to allow. That is up to a GM to go beyond the rules. I was just making a point about how using flavor or fluff to justify something can lead to unexpected issues, and that people should know that flavor/fluff are not rules.
I am actually more permissive than I seem to be in the rules section.
Fair enough, especially since I included caveats of my own regarding how those additional things might actually play out. Most things along this particular line I would probably say it's not possible because the elemental doesn't like you, because the elemental is too small, or something similar though, not because the rules don't say it's not possible. That way, if they really want to use flavor/fluff to do something, they can as long as they put in enough work to take into account most, if not all, of those unexpected issues. Tends to lead to fewer arguments than saying because the rules say so.
Flavor/fluff is basically artistic license, and I do admit it can help you decide how something is intended to work, but it is not rules.
This is where the problem begins, and it's just as troublesome for me as a GM for people to say 'my water elemental doesn't get things wet when I activate Drench, because it doesn't say it does'. I see it as counterproductive, and creating a whole generation of Roll-players, and not Role-players.
So let's go line by line.
As for drench as long as it puts the fire out I don't think most people care if the elemental touches the fire or waves his hand in front it, or sucks the fire into his hand etc etc...
I think this is wrong - picture Eli the Elemental Hunter "This campfire was put out by a water elemental Drenching. No one in their right mind carries this quantity of water around, or even creates it, to be able to put out a campfire. We're getting close." The flavor text was written so that the effects dictated in the mechanics are implemented in a certain way. Your variant water elemental may have 'extinguish' (or power 1a, given the apparent over-reliance on 'rule-text only'), but that's not a run of the mill water elemental. It also gives you zero in the way of narrative power to map out consequences, and unintended consequences.
Yes I do agree the bard is performing, but not using the perform skills unless called for.
This just opens another can of worms - now a bard can do their 'whisper performance' if they only want to effect their adjacent comrades (which can get louder later). They now have an ability that's better than a spell (a partial Silent Spell), since spells need to be in a normal spoken voice. Maybe they can start with a visual performance (since it's quiet and allows you to sneak up on the bad guy) and switch to an audible one when people start to spread out during battle (it doesn't say you can't switch, only that you choose a mode when starting).
And I thought the conclusion is that it is using the perform skill (as it says so), but not requiring a check?
As for lay on hands it specifically calls out hands IIRC, but even if not I think the intent is clear. Requiring a hand is not giving the ability any extra power or taking away from what it is supposed to do.
You mean when your paladin wants to lay on hands to the person hanging from their feet (when they can't reach them with a hand, but their hand is free), you'll deny their clear implementation of RAW?
This is perhaps a hyperbolic example, but the point is RAW if held to strictly can be as troublesome as using flavor descriptions/names. They both have their place, but the emphasis being placed is treating PF as 4E (or Champions - 'you didn't pay for that effect, so it doesn't happen'), not a game of narration.
When people try to use flavor to make a ruling I look at whether or not they are adding or taking anything away mechanically. That does not lead to an automatic yes or no, but if we are discussing that rules, and what is actually allowed by the game, that is different that what I think is within the realm of balance, or reasonable.
I think this is perfect, but it's breaking the rules interpretations I've seen again and again on the forums, which discourage this type of thinking.
Having an elemental use their bodies in ways not written into the game can make them an unlimited water supply in a desert campaign. You air supply is running low, summon an air elemental.
I think this is a great use of an elemental - if you can convince them to give up some of their substance (perhaps taking damage in the process), it's a wonderful role-playing opportunity (how are you speaking to them?). As a GM, I'm all for using higher level spells to simulate those of lower level...
Flavor text can also be restricting beyond where it should be.GM: No you can't be a ninja because I don't like ninjas.
Player: I am using the ninja class, but my character is really an assassin.
GM: The book says it is a ninja so my answer is still no.
Now had that the same mechanics been given a different name there most likely would not have been a problem.
This is quite true. But both ways have their issues.
edit: As for the rules form the best thing to do is say the books don't allow ___, but I would recommend ____. That is what I do to let them know the rule is, but also let them know ____ is not going to hurt anything.
I don't see that much. I do see reference to 'you can house rule it' which comes across again and again as derisive.
Kwauss while I understand your concerns, the devs have ruled time and again that abilities do only what they say they do. Nothing more or less.
Kwauss while I understand your concerns, the devs have ruled time and again that abilities do only what they say they do. Nothing more or less.
Wet is also not a condition in PF. So water elementals might make everything they touch wet. They may even leave a trail of mud, just not difficult terrain mud.
Also like how I think a fire elemental gives off light and can lite torches. They are made of fire and fire has rules for it. The fire being animated doesn't change the rules of fire (same thing for water).
This is where the problem begins, and it's just as troublesome for me as a GM for people to say 'my water elemental doesn't get things wet when I activate Drench, because it doesn't say it does'. I see it as counterproductive, and creating a whole generation of Roll-players, and not Role-players.
Flavor/fluff is basically artistic license, and I do admit it can help you decide how something is intended to work, but it is not rules.
People I game for tend to RP and ask for things beyond what they know the rules allow so from my personal experience I will have to disagree.
So let's go line by line.
As for drench as long as it puts the fire out I don't think most people care if the elemental touches the fire or waves his hand in front it, or sucks the fire into his hand etc etc...
I think this is wrong - picture Eli the Elemental Hunter "This campfire was put out by a water elemental Drenching. No one in their right mind carries this quantity of water around, or even creates it, to be able to put out a campfire. We're getting close." The flavor text was written so that the effects dictated in the mechanics are implemented in a certain way. Your variant water elemental may have 'extinguish' (or power 1a, given the apparent over-reliance on 'rule-text only'), but that's not a run of the mill water elemental. It also gives you zero in the way of narrative power to map out consequences, and unintended consequences.
What is stopping the GM from giving the water elemental a rules exception or special powers? AP's do it. I make variant monsters at times. Sometimes the rules just don't allow you to do what you need to do.
Yes I do agree the bard is performing, but not using the perform skills unless called for.
This just opens another can of worms - now a bard can do their 'whisper performance' if they only want to effect their adjacent comrades (which can get louder later). They now have an ability that's better than a spell (a partial Silent Spell), since spells need to be in a normal spoken voice. Maybe they can start with a visual performance (since it's quiet and allows you to sneak up on the bad guy) and switch to an audible one when people start to spread out during battle (it doesn't say you can't switch, only that you choose a mode when starting).
And I thought the conclusion is that it is using the perform skill (as it says so), but not requiring a check?
When did I say anything about allowing a stealthy performance? With that said inspire courage says you can use an audible or visual component(not per spells) to inspire. Also the bard's performance does not say he can change how he is inspiring, as an example. Whether he can or can not switch is not answered by the rules. The rules tend to tell you what you can do aka "how things work", not how they don't work.
Not that it matters because if the perform skill is not calling for a check it has no mechanical impact on the game.
You mean when your paladin wants to lay on hands to the person hanging from their feet (when they can't reach them with a hand, but their hand is free), you'll deny their clear implementation of RAW?This is perhaps a hyperbolic example, but the point is RAW if held to strictly can be as troublesome as using flavor descriptions/names. They both have their place, but the emphasis being placed is treating PF as 4E (or Champions - 'you didn't pay for that effect, so it doesn't happen'), not a game of narration.
No I am not letting the paladin use his feet if that is what you are asking. And I don't go strictly by RAW. I tend to give RAI rulings, and flavor is not a rule. As an example if someone wants to choose a trait, but the trait does not fit their backstory I allow them to change the flavor of the trait. Let's take reactionary as an example.
Reactionary: You were bullied often as a child, but never quite developed an offensive response. Instead, you became adept at anticipating sudden attacks and reacting to danger quickly. You gain a +2 trait bonus on Initiative checks
By the flavor of this text my player is restricted from playing his character a certain way if he is trying to be offensive minded.
Now suppose my player wants to be the aggressor and not the one that was bullied or always reacting to someone else's move.
Alternate flavor--> You grew up in a rough part of town. In order to survive you had to watch your surroundings and be willing to strike first.
Just to be clear I am not saying follow the rules slavishly. I am saying there is a big difference between what you allow, and what the rules say you can do.
It might be cool to do ____, but that is not the same as "the rules allow ____".
Sometimes "you can houserule it" is be derisive, but sometimes it is just saying "you will have to change this rule for your games".