I've seen an enemy call in a specific demon with a CR 5 higher than itself but the same or less amount of hit dice knowing that because of who's in the party the demon would ignore it and attack the party either way. The demon was called "Galundari, the Scourge of Heaven". Now despite the fact that the demon was 5 CR higher than the caller the party only got XP for the creature that called it and each creature on it's own is a party killer. Now this DM strictly abides to the rules as they are in the book but while I can find the rule about summoned creatures I can't find the one about creatures called or brought in by gate. Can anyone tell me where it is or is this just a loophole that the developers overlooked? Does it also mean a PC can attempt the same thing and get full xp for the kills caused by a stronger creature when he/she calls it?
I know summoned monsters don't count for xp, but I think called monsters are. Gate is a calling effect. Id honestly have to check.
Gated monsters come from a class ability so they are not worth XP by the rules however a GM should award adhoc XP in certain situations.
Example:
Necromancer X uses his powers to create undead just before the party shows up. Since he used his spells those monsters are just resources for him, just like a summoned monster, but since they can have a big affect on the outcome of the fight a GM might want to give out extra XP. <----paraphrased from 3.5 Designer.
No I don't remember the name, since I read it a long time ago.
He could have used that Gate slot to cast timestop, buff himself a lot and surround the party with summoned monsters, who by their combination could potentially be more of a problem than a gated monster.
Back to this monster that was gated, by the rules if it was some unique monster he still has to bargain with it, and automatic control is not assumed.
So my question is did he actually bargain with it mid combat or is the monster a normal one with a unique name.
Or did he speak to it before due to a prior gating?
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Gated monster don't necessarily come from a class ability, it can be a magic item or even a feature of the location. Don't have a duration, can't be dispelled, can teleport and summon, etc. etc.
AFAIK gated creature are counted separately (with a possible XP adjustment to the encounter, depending on the situation). You have a reference saying something different?
A candle of invocation cost 8.400 gp and can be appropriate equipment for a 8th level PC or a 10th level NPC. Searching for the name of a specific Glabrezu or Marilith will cost some thousand gp. Lit the candle, speak the name and flee while the demon "explain" to the 8th level party the errors of their way of life.
And if they survive that encounter isn't worth XP.
From the OP post:
"knowing that because of who's in the party the demon would ignore it and attack the party either way. The demon was called "Galundari, the Scourge of Heaven."
So (from what I get) it was a demon with a great enmity against asimar and/or paladins and the group contained some of them.
Gated monster don't necessarily come from a class ability, it can be a magic item or even a feature of the location. Don't have a duration, can't be dispelled, can teleport and summon, etc. etc.
AFAIK gated creature are counted separately (with a possible XP adjustment to the encounter, depending on the situation). You have a reference saying something different?A candle of invocation cost 8.400 gp and can be appropriate equipment for a 8th level PC or a 10th level NPC. Searching for the name of a specific Glabrezu or Marilith will cost some thousand gp. Lit the candle, speak the name and flee while the demon "explain" to the 8th level party the errors of their way of life.
And if they survive that encounter isn't worth XP.
From the OP post:
"knowing that because of who's in the party the demon would ignore it and attack the party either way. The demon was called "Galundari, the Scourge of Heaven."
So (from what I get) it was a demon with a great enmity against asimar and/or paladins and the group contained some of them.
Even from a magic item it is a character resource. I will have to find the undead reference, which has the same problem as the Gate issue, which is increasing the encounter difficulty without increasing CR.
Just to be clear I am just arguing the rules, not what may or may not be fair.
I found it. It was in the 3.5 FAQ, and it reference animate dead and planar ally(a calling spell).
Do characters receive experience for killing a
summoned monster? What about undead created with
animate dead or an outsider called with planar ally?
As a general rule, any creature whose presence on the
battlefield is a direct result of another creature using one of its
special abilities (such as summoning) during the battle doesn’t
grant XP to characters defeating it. This is because the monster
is counted as part of the challenge provided by the summoning
monster. A pit fiend’s Challenge Rating (and thus the XP
reward granted for defeating him) already takes into account
the fact that he can summon allies; without that ability, he’d be
worth less XP.
However, there are plenty of situations where a DM should
make exceptions to this general rule. Any time that a creature
can bring an ally into play without reducing the resources it
otherwise brings to the fight (or well outside of combat) you
should strongly consider awarding XP for defeating that ally.
Let’s look at a few examples to see how this might work in
play.
Example 1: Over the course of many days, a powerful
necromancer stocks his lair with undead created via spells.
When the PCs fight the necromancer and these undead
minions, the necromancer has his full array of spells, so the act
of creating these undead hasn’t reduced the challenge he
provides. Thus, the Sage recommends awarding full XP for
defeating the undead.
Example 2: The same necromancer is on the run, knowing
the PCs aren’t far behind. He spends some of his precious daily
allotment of spells to animate a few zombies, only minutes
before the PCs bust down his door and attack. That’s a lot more
like summoning, since the creation of the undead represents a
direct drain on the necromancer’s immediately available
resources. Still, he doesn’t have to spend any rounds of combat
casting the spells, so it’s not quite the same. The Sage
recommends awarding one-half XP for defeating the undead.
Basically by the rules no XP would be rewarded, but due to certain situations it is fair to give the PC's some XP because of the extra combatant, even if it used up resources. The benefit gained outstrips what was lost at times depending on what you bring in, and the cost of doing so.
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Summoned =/= gated
AFAIK: if they have been summoned in a way that will lower the enemy resources during the following encounters it will count against the summoner XP and it will not give separate XP.
In Pathfinder created undead don't count against the creator XP unless they ave drained resources available to it today.
Gate is peculiar as it can bring in something greater than the effect of a similar spell.
I think there is a SKR or Bullman comment about that, I will serach for it later, after today playing sesion.
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Since the x rules only mention summoned monsters, wouldn't we apply the "if it doesn't specifically say" rule against the GM? The rules on summoned critters DON'T mention gates, so you get full xp on gated monsters.??? We seems to apply this logic everywhere else in PF.
Unless there is a rule specifically saying you don't get xp for gated monsters, you do. There is a rule specifically for summoned, so you don't.
ps. A gated monster is a fully functional additional foe, so of course you should get xp.
The rules about how this functions aren't particularly important.
If you have a problem, bring it up to your GM.
It basically sounds like you're pissed off because you had to face a very difficult challenge, and when you succeeded you didn't feel like the reward was commiserate to your effort.
Summoned =/= gated
AFAIK: if they have been summoned in a way that will lower the enemy resources during the following encounters it will count against the summoner XP and it will not give separate XP.
In Pathfinder created undead don't count against the creator XP unless they ave drained resources available to it today.Gate is peculiar as it can bring in something greater than the effect of a similar spell.
I think there is a SKR or Bullman comment about that, I will serach for it later, after today playing sesion.
I did bold planar ally since the planar spells also bring in fully functional monsters. Is bringing in a monster by planar binding or planar ally really any different than using Gate if they both have the same powers?
Since the x rules only mention summoned monsters, wouldn't we apply the "if it doesn't specifically say" rule against the GM? The rules on summoned critters DON'T mention gates, so you get full xp on gated monsters.??? We seems to apply this logic everywhere else in PF.
Unless there is a rule specifically saying you don't get xp for gated monsters, you do. There is a rule specifically for summoned, so you don't.
ps. A gated monster is a fully functional additional foe, so of course you should get xp.
Planar Ally does the same thing. That is why I bolded it. It is a calling spell not a summoning one and he did address that.
I must be doing it wrong. A villain npc (minor) uses a skeleton raising ability frequently and I grant xp for all of them that are defeated. Same for summoned beasties.