Is it possible for a Level 8 Maneuver Monk to Grapple, Pin, and then Tie Up a target in the same full round action?
Yes.
The grappling rules say that when you make a successful grappling check, you can take one of the following actions.
Initiate
Move
Pin
Damage
Tie Up
The first action you take has to be Initiate, which imposes the Grappled condition on both of you and designates you as the controller, and the controller can release as a free action.
If you attempt to Move an opponent into a hazard, your opponent gets a free attempt to break loose and gets a +4 bonus.
If you attempt to Tie Up an opponent you haven't Pinned yet, you take a -10 on your check, unless you don't. Level 2 Cavaliers of the Order of the Penitent do not take that penalty.
There are some other ways to achieve the Tie-Up-in-1-round effect.
Normally, all Grapple Checks are Standard Actions. But if you have Rapid Grappler, you can make a Grapple Check as a Swift action. The prerequisite is Greater Grapple, which lets you make the check as a Move Action. The prerequisite is Improved Grapple, which lets you make the check without suffering an attack of opportunity (usually).
So you can take Greater Grapple and Initiate and Tie Up in 1 round, and if you have those 2 levels in Cavalier, you don't take the -10.
A lot of players really like being a Tetori Monk, because it gives the special ability to negate Freedom of Movement, which would otherwise foil all grapple attempts. But since the effect costs just 3 feats or so, it doesn't seem to me like you have to so completely commit to being a grappler to be an awesome one.
It seems to me that if you have a piercing Monk Weapon or a Feat that lets your Unarmed Strike count as a piercing Weapon such as Snake Style or Feral Combat Training on your Bite Attack, you could use the Hamatula Strike effect in combination with Flurry of Blows.
Working in a iterative grapple into your build can be devastating. There are ways to get your Grapple CMB up to +20 or so by like level 7. If you can work out a way to get True Strike to affect on you 2x in the same round--difficult but not impossible. You have a very high chance of defeating some quite Terrible Monsters in 1 round.
Fastmover wrote: Is it possible for a Level 8 Maneuver Monk to Grapple, Pin, and then Tie Up a target in the same full round action? No.
Flurry of Maneuvers (Ex) wrote: At 1st level, as part of a full-attack action, a maneuver master can make one additional combat maneuver, regardless of whether the maneuver normally replaces a melee attack or requires a standard action. The maneuver master uses his monk level in place of his base attack bonus to determine his CMB for the bonus maneuvers, though all combat maneuver checks suffer a –2 penalty when using a flurry.
At 8th level, a maneuver master may attempt a second additional combat maneuver, with an additional –3 penalty on combat maneuver checks.
At 15th level, a maneuver master may attempt a third additional combat maneuver, with an additional –7 penalty on combat maneuver checks.
This ability replaces flurry of blows.
My point is that only the additional maneuvers granted by the class feature benefit from that reduction.
Even if you have Gr Grapple or Rapid Grapple, it still does not reduce a grapple check to replace an attack, so you can only get 2 grapples during a FoM at level 8; the rest of the full attack must be attacks, or actions that can replace attacks.
I think I see what you mean: if he takes a standard action to initiate the grapple, he doesn't get to take the Full Attack Action, so he can't Initiate as a Standard Action, then get 2 more grapple checks as part of Flurry of Maneuvers to the Pin and then Tie Up.
Kinda forgot about that.
But you can Tie Up an opponent you haven't Pinned first, if you suffer the -10 or have some way around it. So you could Grapple and Tie Up an opponent as a Level 8 Maneuver Master, but it's hard to do.
Doing it as part of a Flurry of Maneuvers, you could Trip your opponent as your first Attack, take advantage of his Prone Condition to Blind him as a Dirty Trick for your 2nd attack, then do the 2 Grapples in your Flurry. The chances of failure are pretty high, still. It's probably better just to build the Grappler the way I suggested, with Greater Grapple and Expert Captor.
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Tie Up: If you have your target pinned, otherwise restrained, or unconscious, you can use rope to tie him up. This works like a pin effect, but the DC to escape the bonds is equal to 20 + your Combat Maneuver Bonus (instead of your CMD). The ropes do not need to make a check every round to maintain the pin. If you are grappling the target, you can attempt to tie him up in ropes, but doing so requires a combat maneuver check at a –10 penalty. If the DC to escape from these bindings is higher than 20 + the target's CMB, the target cannot escape from the bonds, even with a natural 20 on the check.
You need to have them pinned to tie them up and you get a -10(you get a +5 also for maintaining the grapple)
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Oh, I don't think so. I see why you think that, but I don't think that is the intent.
When they say, "If you are grappling the target" they mean if you have your opponent Grappled, as opposed to Pinned. Look at the First sentence of your post again. "If you have your target pinned, otherwise restrained or unconscious," "Pinned" goes with "Unconscious," and I think "Grappling" means "Grappled."
Look at the description of the Expert Captor Cavalier Order Ability
"Expert Captor (Ex)
At 2nd level, as long as he has rope, the cavalier can tie up a grappled opponent, even if the opponent is not pinned, otherwise restrained, or unconscious, and he does not take the usual –10 penalty on his combat maneuver check to do so. When determining the DC to escape bonds secured by the cavalier, the cavalier's Combat Maneuver Bonus increases by 1/2 his cavalier level."
--I am quoting http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/cavalier/orders/paizo---cavali er-orders/order-of-the-penitent, but I do own Pathfinder Player Companion: Knights of the Inner Sea, and have corroborated what it says.
So even if your interpretation of the Tie Up action is correct, my proposed build calles for gaining the Expert Captor anyway, so the grappler will be able to Tie Up the Grappled-not Pinned--opponent, and will not take a -10 penalty.
I copied and pasted tie up from the PRD.
You can look it up in th ePRD up under combat.
It is not an interpretation.
I am not saying that you are misquoting, Finlanderboy. I'm saying I read it differently from you. Anyway, even if you are right about what the Core Rulebook says, the description of Expert Captor says clearly that level 2 Cavaliers of the Order of the Penitent can Tie Up opponents without Pinning them and without taking the -10.
Scott Wilhelm wrote: I am not saying that you are misquoting, Finlanderboy. I'm saying I read it differently from you. Anyway, even if you are right about what the Core Rulebook says, the description of Expert Captor says clearly that level 2 Cavaliers of the Order of the Penitent can Tie Up opponents without Pinning them and without taking the -10. Yes, why else would they have that ability.
You quoted the PRD, so I will, too:
"Once you are grappling an opponent, a successful check allows you to continue grappling the foe, and also allows you to perform one of the following actions (as part of the standard action spent to maintain the grapple).... Move... Damage... Pin... Tie Up"--http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/combat.html
This means PRD is saying you can Tie Up an opponent once you have your opponent Grappled, not necessarily Pinned. I think the -10 does not apply when you already have them Pinned, but when you attempt to Tie Up a Grappled but not Pinned, opponent.
You take the Expert Captor ability to Tie Up your opponent without Pinning them and without taking the -10.
Scott Wilhelm wrote: You quoted the PRD, so I will, too:
"Once you are grappling an opponent, a successful check allows you to continue grappling the foe, and also allows you to perform one of the following actions (as part of the standard action spent to maintain the grapple).... Move... Damage... Pin... Tie Up"--http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/combat.html
This means PRD is saying you can Tie Up an opponent once you have your opponent Grappled, not necessarily Pinned. I think the -10 does not apply when you already have them Pinned, but when you attempt to Tie Up a Grappled but not Pinned, opponent.
You take the Expert Captor ability to Tie Up your opponent without Pinning them and without taking the -10.
If you do not read the specific rules for tie that trump the general rules then I could see how you would misundersatnd.
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