Goblinworks Lead Game Designer
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So the big news this week is the Librarians of Doom relinquished their hold on Q, joining up with Freevale. Freevale was a big mover this week, plus with a decent hunker down bonus they are sitting pretty good. We also had several other settlements move up and down in the top ten, but no real position changes.
Also it seems Kabal continued to wear their sassy pants as they staked their claim to Q despite it being pretty public knowledge that the Hands of Abbraxas had been gunning for it last week. Kabal continues to be the wild card player.
Quadrivium tried to move into H, but Eastern Sun's hunker down bonus allowed them to keep it, so Quadrivium ended up in S same as last week.
If anyone from the Guardians is reading this, please have your guild head update his draft. It reads ABCDEFGHI etc etc.
Trying a new display this week
Settlement Name Population Population + Hunker Down Position
Talonguard (NG) 92 92 K
Golgotha (LE) 91 91 W
Keepers of the Circle 74 74 AB
Aragon (CN) 56 56 X
Ozem's Vigil (LG) 55 55 E
Dagedai Alliance 49 49 L
Forgeholm 46 46 B
Emerald Lodge 45 45 V
Tavernhold 36 36 F
Sunholm 33 33 O
Hammerfall 33 33.66 Z
Blackwood Glade 32 34.24 Y
Freevale 29 35.96 I
Kabal 25 25 Q
Les Compagnons 21 27.93 AD
Elkhaven 19 22.99 G
Mystical Awakening 17 20.74 AA
Eastern Sun 15 21.75 H
Quadrivium 15 15 S
Agents of Erastil 14 15.4 A
Hammerfist Clan 13 20.28 M
Reading Between the Lines 13 13 P
Brains and Brawn 12 12 U
The Gauntlet 12 17.64 C
vVv Gaming 11 11 N
Terra Australis Incognito 11 14.41 J
The Guardians 9 9 D
The Iron Gauntlet 9 9 AC
Hand of Abraxas 9 9 R
The Deaders 8 8 T
So new rules question that I don't think I specifically stated that has come up with Tavernhold and Sunholm. Both of those guilds worked their way into the top 10 or have bounced in an out while retaining their spots. While they do not get hunker down bonus while in the top ten, should they keep their comparatively minor hunker down bonus from previous weeks not in the top ten? I don't believe this was ever specified. My instinct is to say yes, especially since it's a few percentage points that are unlikely to make a difference (Note currently Sunholm and Tavernhold's points do not represent a hunker down bonus, but adding it would not change anyone's position this week). Last time we seemed to have a pretty good discussion about a rules question, so I figured I would try this again.
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Goblin Squad Member
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That's the problem with sharp thresholds rather than gradual curves. I would say that if a settlement accumulates some hunker down, gains rank to put them in the top 10, and then drops down again, all the while not having moved and in their most preferred location, they should regain the HD bonus they had previously.
i.e. entering the top 10 should suppress your accumulated HD bonus, but should not erase it, assuming that you do not lose it by moving or attempting to move.
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Goblin Squad Member
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That's the problem with sharp thresholds rather than gradual curves. I would say that if a settlement accumulates some hunker down, gains rank to put them in the top 10, and then drops down again, all the while not having moved and in their most preferred location, they should regain the HD bonus they had previously.
i.e. entering the top 10 should suppress your accumulated HD bonus, but should not erase it, assuming that you do not lose it by moving or attempting to move.
That makes sense to me.
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Goblin Squad Member
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My understanding is that hunker down does not apply to guilds in the Top 10. It seems to me that if someone breaks into the Top 10, it should no longer apply. However, if others pass them and they again drop out of the Top 10, it would make sense to me that they'd then pick up their hunker down bonus where it left off, if they didn't change spots or what-have-you.
Edit: which is basically what Guurzak said
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Goblin Squad Member
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The way I read the original "rules" was that a settlement gains a % depending on its position, that % is permanently attached to their group as long as they keep that location. So if you are moving around the list, you gain a % every week.
So if you build up a 100% boost at the bottom of the list for a while, then grab 100 members out of the blue, even TEO couldn't unseat you.
But it seems like groups are purposefully killing other's hunker bonuses, so the system seems pretty pointless now.
I, personally, would have not made roster size public, and the pick list would have only been visible to the owner.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Definitely keep the bonus if they stay in the same spot - I think this would be well within the spirit of the Hunker-Down Bonus (HDB). If a guild establishes a decent HDB, maintains that spot, and then moves into the top10, I don't think they should forfeit that HDB just because they are suddenly more popular. After all, they are still staying in the same spot, and they should have some benefit to trying to stay there. Plus, if another guild comes up the ranks and drops them down in the rankings a bit (back into #11+), they would certainly love to have that bonus again to stay where they are at.
Emerald Lodge and Forgeholm sure are going at it over there. Look at 'em go. Pull his beard, pull his beard!
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm not sure we'd have one anyway, since Kabal bumped us briefly. But it seems like keeping the bonus but losing access to it while in the top ten is in keeping with other aspects of the game, such as unsupported skills and feats. When we got into the top ten, you should've let us keep the bonus for 30 days to give us time to drop back to 11.
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Goblin Squad Member
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That's the problem with sharp thresholds rather than gradual curves. I would say that if a settlement accumulates some hunker down, gains rank to put them in the top 10, and then drops down again, all the while not having moved and in their most preferred location, they should regain the HD bonus they had previously.
i.e. entering the top 10 should suppress your accumulated HD bonus, but should not erase it, assuming that you do not lose it by moving or attempting to move.
This seems the best way to me.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Quadrivium tried to move into H,Was this shared intentionally? I'm pretty sure we've all been assuming that if we don't get a hex, no-one's going to know we tried.
It wasn't the first time something like that has been shared by the devs. In other instances where hunker down bonuses have come into effect and saved that settlement's butt, I believe he's stated as much in the recap.
Hey Lee, shouldn't we (Reading Between the Lines) be getting a hunker down bonus? This is week #2 in our top pick.
(I could be horribly confused at this point, but thought I would ask)
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Goblin Squad Member
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It wasn't the first time something like that has been shared by the devs. In other instances where hunker down bonuses have come into effect and saved that settlement's butt, I believe he's stated as much in the recap.Quadrivium tried to move into H,Was this shared intentionally? I'm pretty sure we've all been assuming that if we don't get a hex, no-one's going to know we tried.
But in this case, it had no effect on the placement, so I don't think there's a reason for us to know that H is their preferred Hex?
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Goblin Squad Member
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But in this case, it had no effect on the placement, so I don't think there's a reason for us to know that H is their preferred Hex?It wasn't the first time something like that has been shared by the devs. In other instances where hunker down bonuses have come into effect and saved that settlement's butt, I believe he's stated as much in the recap.Quadrivium tried to move into H,Was this shared intentionally? I'm pretty sure we've all been assuming that if we don't get a hex, no-one's going to know we tried.
No, in previous weeks, I recall Lee doing the same thing. If a hunker down bonus saves someone, he makes it known. X tried to get Y's spot, but Y held on due to hunker down and X ended up in F.
I'm pretty sure he's been consistent about it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Hey Lee, shouldn't we (Reading Between the Lines) be getting a hunker down bonus? This is week #2 in our top pick.
(I could be horribly confused at this point, but thought I would ask)
Week 5 you were in T, week 6 you got bumped, adjusted preferences, and week 7 will be your first week you were at where you are by your own choosing. Week 8 you should get your first HDB.
That's what I'm tracking, but I could be wrong.
We readjusted our list while we were at T, otherwise it would have somehow been stolen from us by someone with less votes.
Only if they changed their name to Deadites. ;)
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Goblin Squad Member
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I know that this is a lot of work, but, I believe that it should have worked something like this:
Each settlement gets a "hunker down" bonus associated with each week that they kept a spot. That "hunker down" bonus stays with them permanently, and builds up the longer they stay in a spot. If someone steals their spot, they still keep that "hunker down" bonus to retake that spot at a later date if they can recruit more people.
For example: The Green Frog Legion took K for two weeks gain a 2 week bonus, they decided to move into the mountains and took A for one week. They decided after more internal discussion that they wanted to go back to K. They keep their 2 week bonus when attempting to get K back.
So every place you go gives you a specific bonus to stay in that place, whether you move or not. IF you move all over the place like Kabal has been doing, they would get a very small bonus to each place they have been.
Furthermore, I believe everyone should be on a fair playing field. Right now, the top 10 gets nothing, I believe this is unfair. The top ten all spent tons of effort to gather people prior to the land rush. For that effort they get no % bonus to keep their places. IF two of the smaller groups merge, and have 1 more person then someone in the top 10, they could just got take their place, even after that group in the top 10 have been there for 7-8 weeks.
I believe that you need to change the "hunker down" bonus to reflect each group getting some kind of bonus.
I messed around with grading on a curve with a standard deviation. 8 being the "lowest score" and 92 being the "highest score," graded against 92 actually being the top score you could get. The mean would be 30.133, while the median was 20. You could reverse the curve, where 8 is the top score and 92 is the bottom score. Then you could divide the participants based on score so 2.5/13.5/34/34/13.5/2.5 percent.
So, there would be 6 categories that got bonuses, 8/9-11/11-19/21-49/55-91/92, with the lowest score getting the highest bonus, and the highest score getting the largest bonus.
Anyways, just food for thought.
Changing the rules every week is ridiculous.
As they were the rules were not clear enough.
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Goblin Squad Member
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No offense to TEO Cheatle,
But redesigning the whole thing seems a bit past time, which he admits. As far as changing the rules, I don't necessarily see it that way. Perhaps furthering the explanation of how the rules are being interpreted is a better statement. As Lee is simply leaving this interpretation up to the community using it.
I don't truly see how this rule remotely effects DownFall and its newest abode to spread its toxicity to.
But if a determination is to be made, using an idea like Cheatle's would then offer merit, but simply base it on an accumulated % for each week the settlement was present in the top ten, where a settlement who had been there one week would get a 1% bonus, while others there for 2 weeks would get a 3% bonus, etc. and so on. Then it is transparent enough for an alliance of settlements to calculate and challenge if they so desperately want a spot belonging to one of the top ten settlements.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So are there actual instances of someone moving into the top 10 and then losing there selection because they lost their hunker down bonus or is all this discussion just theorizing ?
TBh I am surprised more smaller companies have not just amalgamated or even joined larger groups under some sort of deal to be sponsored eventually into their own separate settlement once the map expands.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Unless I missed a decision, you don't lose your bonus for changing position. You only lose it for changing hexes. If you check the public spreadsheet of guilds, columns R through W on the right show everyone's historical bonus week by week (or, at least, our best guess at their bonus)
The current top 10 are rows 6 to 16 (the top 5 being labels and the three "grandfathered" settlements) There aren't many bonuses up there, because they've mostly been in the top 10 all along, or changed locations when they got there.
I doubt if there's anyone in the top 10 who got bumped over the tiny difference the bonus makes, but I could be wrong.
Is the hex selection also captured automatically at midnight? (i.e., if it is set as a.b.c at midnight Sunday, then gets changed to c,b,a later that night, but before the positions are assigned in the morning, which one will get used?)
The system grabs both hex selection and vote count at midnight.
