Building the Opposition (seven deadly sins and seven heavenly virtues)

[AndIMustMask]

As a thought exercise/personal challenge I thought I'd throw together the vices' and virtues' personifications (in pathfinder), and am looking for comments, suggestions and speculation on which virtue/vice might be what class (or focus therein).

i'm trying to keep each one unique, but i'm having issues lining up some of them (particularly the virtues) without being rather sameface.

- - - - -

so far I've got:

seven deadly sins

wrath - barbarian "ATOMIC RAGE"
gluttony - alchemist or monk (drunken master or hungry ghost)
envy - witch (grudges, curses, and whatnot) or an illusionist/transforming character of some kind
greed - wiz/clr/MT "all magic belongs to me" or (more simply) rogue/ninja (for obvious reasons)
lust - bard "i roll to seduce"
sloth - summoner "fluffy, take care of them, would you?"
pride - antipaladin or wizard

seven heavenly virtues

patience (opposes wrath) -
temperance (opposes gluttony) - inquisitor
kindness (opposes envy) - cavalier
charity (opposes greed) -
chastity (opposes lust) - cleric
diligence (opposes sloth) - monk
humility (opposes pride) - paladin or cleric

- - - - -

the main purpose is to have a thematic opposition on-tap for games like 'wrath of the righteous' and 'way of the wicked' if you wanted to add your own challenges for the party, or for home games of a similar bent.

once the classes are hammered out I can go about making proper builds for each of them; currently races, archetypes, etc. haven't really been considered so far, hence my request for suggestions.

[avr]

Gluttony might be a bloatmage. Base class could be a wizard if so.

Pride to me says Swashbuckler (ACG). Nobody does arrogance more naturally.

Patience might be a Ranger patrolling the wilds. Their ideal confrontation with Wrath would be an ambush at range.

Charity might be someone who buffs others (a bard) or a summoner of some sort (possibly a cleric or druid rather than a summoner by class.) Opposing Greed ideally involves allies.

[Bob Bob Bob]

Sins

wrath - don't forget ragechemist/master chymist, also cleric (demonic apostle) has potential, ditto bard (savage skald)
gluttony - and barbarian (drunken brute), though in any case try to work in a cohort with the "cook people" hex
envy - see, here I'd say MT or the old spellthief (bard (sandman) is the only thing I know that can do that now), for someone who wants abilities and powers others have. I'd say vivisectionist but that's about giving other creatures stuff, not yourself. Any graft-type magic items yet?
greed - someone who can craft
lust - and any other enchantment focused spellcaster, witches work well
sloth - really can't beat summoner (though druid is similar), it's just harder to make an animal companion shaped like a lounge chair. Should also suggest bloatmage here
pride - what, no love for the order of the cockatrice cavalier? It's a requirement of the order

Virtues

patience (opposes wrath) - paladin, fey foundling/favored into LoH (no oath of vengeance, please) just take the hits, possibly tranquil guardian?
- monk of the lotus for touch of serenity (or just take the feat)
- monk of the sacred mountain
- stalwart defender
temperance (opposes gluttony) - monk with a bunch of vows? Probably sensei for an extreme WIS focus and way to burn that ki
- order of the blue rose cavalier
kindness (opposes envy) - worships Shelyn. The rest is pretty optional.
- monk of the lotus also good here
- cleric (merciful healer)
charity (opposes greed) - halfling with all the aid another boosters and bodyguard/in harm's way
- paladin (sacred shield)
- ranger (guide)
chastity (opposes lust) - well, the fluff matches the ranger (wild stalker) perfectly
- anything with good Will and a WIS focus, so druid as well as cleric. Plus you can strut your "avoid all human contact" stuff
- paladin for "I'm immune to your attempts to control me"
- fighter (unbreakable)
diligence (opposes sloth) - paladin for the code, probably an oath (oath of vengeance is appropriate here, the fluff is all about eternally hunting down the bad guys)
humility (opposes pride) - playing a rogue. On a more useful note, bard (geisha)? fighter (squire)? order of the dragon cavalier?

[Kazaan]

If you want good inspiration for personifications of the 7 sins, go read Fullmetal Alchemist (or watch FMA:Brotherhood). Especially pay attention to Wrath. Wrath isn't Anger, per say, but the desire to do harm. That could be Barbarian atomic rage, but it could very well be a very calm, detached, "non-angry" desire to harm. Lust isn't necessarily lustful but lust-inspiring and taking advantage of that while reveling in a different kind of lust (ie. bloodlust). Sloth isn't about being slow but letting one's potential go to waste. Most of all, Greed. Greed, himself, puts it best:

Greed wrote:

I disagree. You want to bring back someone that you've lost. You might want money. Maybe you want women. Or, you might want to protect the world. These are all common things people want. Things that their hearts desire. Greed may not be good, but it's not so bad, either. You humans think greed is just for money and power! But everyone wants something they don't have. It's only when you start ranking types of greed from good to bad that you humans get tripped up.

[AndIMustMask]

I am INCREDIBLY sorry for the late reply (finding free time of late to post has be a right pain recently)

@kazaan: actually i was toying with the idea of wrath being an urban/invincible barb with a sunder focus (and PA/deadly aim) for all-round destruction. wielding a piston maul for maximum sunder (also having a pile bunker hammer is awesome)

also, can you sunder something at range with a blunt/bludgeoning arrow (or whatever they're called?)

also-also, the end-scene from Equilibrium is a nice example of someone seething with ATOMIC RAGE without outwardly showing it--he just gets much more ruthless/efficient at killing folks

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in general my greed reasoning was basically this: if you have magic you have everything.
money? poof, create some gold.
women? poof, summon a harem.
power? hard to get more powerful than telling physics to shut up and sit down while you tear it a new butt while the fighters are playing with their cute little swords.
anything is attainable or obtainable with proper application of magic--if you think it isn't, you're not using enough.

if you have all the magic, you have everything you could possibly want. hence, getting the biggest spell lists on the divine and arcane sides (i'm sure as a samsaran with some other archetype shenanigans you can get other stuff from other lists too, on top of UMD for those still out of reach) would be the easiest method of this. not to mention with esoteric training (with GM permission or you ARE the GM) you can hit 9th level spells in BOTH sides...

[Cevah]

AndIMustMask wrote:

seven deadly sins

wrath - barbarian "ATOMIC RAGE"
gluttony - alchemist or monk (drunken master or hungry ghost)

+1 Bloatmage.

AndIMustMask wrote:

envy - witch (grudges, curses, and whatnot) or an illusionist/transforming character of some kind

greed - wiz/clr/MT "all magic belongs to me" or (more simply) rogue/ninja (for obvious reasons)

While some rogues are quite greedy, the ninja is not. They are about information gathering and secret activities like killing. They charge high for their service, but any *good* professional does.

AndIMustMask wrote:

lust - bard "i roll to seduce"

sloth - summoner "fluffy, take care of them, would you?"

Sorcerer would do well here also. They don't bother to study, and use magic or high charisma to get things done. I will grant any caster that summons would do well here.

AndIMustMask wrote:

pride - antipaladin or wizard

seven heavenly virtues

patience (opposes wrath) -

Put the ninja here. It takes time to gather quality information.

AndIMustMask wrote:

temperance (opposes gluttony) - inquisitor

Given the wiki definition, I don't think the Inquisitor matches. While I don't know the details, the title appeals: Gunslinger (Mysterious Stranger). Someone slow to interact, but decisive when needed.

AndIMustMask wrote:

kindness (opposes envy) - cavalier

charity (opposes greed) -

Gotta agree with the Halfling Aid Another bit here.

AndIMustMask wrote:

chastity (opposes lust) - cleric

Depends on the faith. I think Monk would be better as they are all about denying the flesh to enlighten the soul.

AndIMustMask wrote:

diligence (opposes sloth) - monk

Keeping up on all the details of your plots to me is either a prepared caster (wizard) or a con-man actively running concurrent cons (bard). I favor the Bard, because they must keep on top of all the details of everything, as well as allowing for the unexpected. Wizards are about being prepared. Bards are about using information, and I think it takes more attention to detail to run a con.

AndIMustMask wrote:

humility (opposes pride) - paladin or cleric

Cleric, possibly. Paladin, no way. They got to be shining beacons of what is right. I think Witch could do well here, because they need to keep their head down a lot, and are often the ones the common people deal with. [Hedge Witch, Witch Doctor] Non-Evil Witches are usually quite approachable, and often serve the small needs of the community. You don't ask a random Paladin to help out the farmer who needs help healing a sick child, but you might ask a random Witch.

/cevah