Hi I'm building a level 2 druid for a kingmaker game (to replace my paladin that died)and I'm having trouble deciding on a few things. For a little background the rest of my team is a court bard and synthesist summoner.
I can't decide on what archetype to use, I like the urban druid and the menhir savant. If use urban druid I will probably use the nobility domain with the leadership subdomain, if I go with the menhir savant I will probably use the fire domain with the ash subdomain. I just fear if I go with urban domain I will be regret bad wild shape latter on, I would use menhir savant to be more of a blaster but I'm worried I might be better of with a wisdom based sorcerer.
Any advice would be appreciated.
I forgot to mention that I'm trying to build a caster druid.
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Seeing as how Kingmaker is set almost entirely in the wilderness, I would say it's precisely the wrong campaign for an Urban Druid. Wildshape is the druid's single most important feature after spellcasting - delaying it 4 levels just plain isn't worth it.
With just 2 other members of the party, I would recommend a melee druid with an animal companion. Since you'll mostly be fighting with your claws, you can save your spell slots for important utility spells and/or battlefield control, and you can afford having an animal companion instead of domain spells. If not that, I would recommend picking up Augmented Summoning and making good use of spontaneous SNA; your front line will need reinforcement.
Menhir Savant is a nice archetype; being able to detect fey and undead is pretty valuable in Kingmaker. However, you will miss the bonuses on Know: Nature and Survival, and Woodland Stride and Wild Empathy are both useful on occasion. I wouldn't pick it, but YMMV.
EDIT: Just saw your update about building a caster druid. Make sure you pick up spells that can last a few turns, like Flaming Sphere or Call Lightning; otherwise you'll be running out of slots in no time. Normally I advocate for a domain for caster druids, but I think I'd still go with an animal companion here - leaving melee entirely up to a bard & summoner, neither of which is the sturdiest class, is not a great idea.
From what I understand a synthesist summoner actually makes a good front liner, at level 2 he already has 30 hp while in eidolon form. The bard however I agree is not the best at melee.
The main reason I don't want to be melee is to not step on the summoner's toes fluff wise, I mean his whole shtic is that he summons stuff and turns into a monster to fight in melee sounds like a melee druid no?
Also I believe both of my team mates will be tacking leadership at level 7 which means cohorts. So cohorts plus the summoner's Summons will make for a crowded board, if I start summoning to we will have a mini army on the board.
Vanilla, Menhir, or any type of Druid that doesn't gum up your wild shape would be great. As a caster Druid in Kingmaker, you can excel at utility in and out of combat. If nothing else, your scouting will be incredibly helpful. With a dearth of melee types, Leadership notwithstanding, advance scouting will let you cast Summon Nature's Allies ahead of time for the win.
Which domain do you think is more useful fire, weather, or one of there subdomains?
Also do you think it would be worth taking the magical lineage trait so that way I can use extend spell for free on summon natures ally.
Which domain do you think is more useful fire, weather, or one of there subdomains?
Also do you think it would be worth taking the magical lineage trait so that way I can use extend spell for free on summon natures ally.
as far as Magical lineage is concerned... Absolutely not.. because you can only apply it to a single summon natures ally spell such SNA I or SNA II or SNA III. It doesn't apply to all of them.
Oh I hadn't thought about it that way thanks.
Do you think it would be worth taking a one level dip into monk to apply wisdom to my ac.
Do you think it would be worth taking a one level dip into monk to apply wisdom to my ac.
Are you planning to go armorless?
Well it works while wild shaped so I was wondering if it would yield a higher affective AC. And if I take a one level dip I would not use armor.
I forgot to mention that I'm trying to build a caster druid.
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Do you think it would be worth taking a one level dip into monk to apply wisdom to my ac.
No. Just be a caster flying Air Elemental with nice dexterity bonuses while not delaying all the Druid goodies by multi-classing.
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I think people oversell the wild shape penalty on Urban Druid. Yes, you loose four levels of wild shape. However, you get Alter Self at will at level six, which is huge. You can have just as much utility with Alter Self. Natural attacks, swim speed (and water breathing), disguise, and so on are available all the time. Also, if you take a one level multiclass dip into Monk after yo gain wild shape, you can take shaping focus to boost your effective druid level to -1 instead of -4 for wild shape.
Well it works while wild shaped so I was wondering if it would yield a higher affective AC. And if I take a one level dip I would not use armor.
For a caster druid I wouldnt do anything that interferes with your casting. In general you are going to want to be AWAY from combat as a caster. In kingmaker you will be able to do that most of the time (wild shape into a bird and cast from the air).
Though in a 3 person party I would probably consider you keeping the animal companion. I know you dont want to step on the synthesists toes, but its almost guaranteed the snythesist will be better at stomping face, and the extra actions will be a big help to a small group.
Keep in mind the summoner cannot use his spell like ability while his eidolon form is present. So he's be using his spells to summon. So he may summon less then you think (I'd talk to him about it). You could even go with a more support animal companion, something like a wolf that trips the enemy so the synthesist can clobber them more easily.
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I think people oversell the wild shape penalty on Urban Druid. Yes, you loose four levels of wild shape. However, you get Alter Self at will at level six, which is huge. You can have just as much utility with Alter Self. Natural attacks, swim speed (and water breathing), disguise, and so on are available all the time. Also, if you take a one level multiclass dip into Monk after yo gain wild shape, you can take shaping focus to boost your effective druid level to -1 instead of -4 for wild shape.
Alter Self at will is quite nice for an urban campaign, where it pays off big to be able to disguise yourself often and easily. But in a wilderness campaign, the movement speeds (fly, burrow/earth glide, etc.) and protections granted by Beast Shape and Elemental Body are far more important. You're also going to be better off "disguising" as, say, a bat or small bird than any type of humanoid, and delaying wildshape delays access to Tiny forms as well. (Tiny forms are also a huge boon to Stealth, which comes in pretty handy.)
Also, Shaping Focus doesn't let you get around the wildshape penalty. A Druid 8/Monk 1 with Shaping Focus is treated for wildshape purposes as though he were Druid 9 - which, for an Urban Druid, is still going to mean only Beast Shape I.
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Shaping focus absolutely does let you bypass the penalty.
If you are a multiclassed druid, your wild shape ability is calculated as though your druid level were four higher, to a maximum level equal to your character level.
An urban druid gains this ability at 8th level, except that her effective druid level for the ability is equal to her druid level – 4.
This may not be RAI, but it is RAW. Urban Druid lowered your effective druid level, Shaping focus raises it up to your character level.
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Shaping focus absolutely does let you bypass the penalty.
If you are a multiclassed druid, your wild shape ability is calculated as though your druid level were four higher, to a maximum level equal to your character level.
An urban druid gains this ability at 8th level, except that her effective druid level for the ability is equal to her druid level – 4.This may not be RAI, but it is RAW. Urban Druid lowered your effective druid level, Shaping focus raises it up to your character level.
Check with your GM about that first. Some will rule that Shaping Focus gives you the Wild Shape of a 9th level Urban Druid, not a 9th level regular Druid.
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There is no such thing as Wild Shape of a 9th level Urban druid. All wild shape penalties and bonuses speak in terms of druid level so adding another term in there makes no sense.
You are 9th level Druid (Urban) 8/ Monk 1. You wild shape starts at druid level (not urban druid level) - 4. Shaping focus then increases your effective level for wild shape by 4 up to a max of your hit dice, so now you have an effective druid level of 8.
I would personally go with the Storm Druid archetype and select the Cloud domain (subdomain of Air). Control Winds may look like a weak spell, but look at the wind effects that you can create (and resist). You can create a full-blown tornado by 15th level, I think.
Furthermore, the Cloud subdomain not only grants you the Lightning Arc ranged touch attack, but also gives you the Thundercloud ability which not only hinders your opponents visually (yay miss chances!) but also damages them. And you can still see through it for yet another way to stick it to your enemies.
You will, of course loose your normal Summon Nature's Ally spontaneous casting in lieu of spontaneously casting your domain spells, but the only real downsides that I see are the loss of Woodland Stride and Trackless Step. Some people may also be perturbed by the loss of Venom Immunity and Thousand Faces, but few creatures effectively use poison, and unless you are running a high-level intrigue campaign thousand faces is not terribly useful, IMO.
This combination effective grants you the ability to control the battlefield while leaving your Wild Shape ability fully intact. And you won't be stepping on too many toes, but can still fill in where needed either summoning, casting, or wading into melee.
Well after talking with summoner I decided to go with a summoning build. Rather then feel like I was encroaching on his territory he was exited about the prospect of a fellow summoner. I went with the saurian shaman and while it hinders wild shape a little bit I feel the ability to summon as a standard action is to good to pass up (rods of quickening anyone). I also went with the animal domain fur subdomain as a compromise between domain and animal companion. Now I know the animal domain isn't very good but considering it only takes one feat to get the animal companion fully leveled I figured it was a good deal. Plus the Beast shape spell lets me change my animal companion in the middle of combat. The only real choice I have left is whether I should get Augment summoning or natural spell at 5th level.
Thanks for all the help I greatly appreciate it.