I've recently run a game in which a character took 250 points of damage (mostly from a power attacking giant's x4 crit) in a single round. He ended up around -150 hp and was quite clearly very dead being in the negative by about as much as his max HP.
To me this seems to be such a catastrophic amount of damage that his body is no longer in good enough condition to be raised by anything short of Resurrection.
Am I correct? Or should I let the party raise him with the cheaper spell?
By the rules the body can still be raised so I would allow it. As long as the body is present and all vitals organs are present it should work. By the rules hit point damage does not remove vital organs.
By the rules the body can still be raised so I would allow it. As long as the body is present and all vitals organs are present it should work. By the rules hit point damage does not remove vital organs.
So even if a character took millions of points of damage he would still be eligible?
Seems strange.
By the rules the body can still be raised so I would allow it. As long as the body is present and all vitals organs are present it should work. By the rules hit point damage does not remove vital organs.
So even if a character took millions of points of damage he would still be eligible?
Seems strange.
Correct. Anything else is a house rule, which I am not saying house rules are bad, but I wanted to be clear on what the rule was.
PS: This is off topic, but was that mythic power attack? I am just asking out of curiosity. It has no bearing on the question you asked.
There are no rules for damage to limbs/organs/etc.
Basically anything like that is up to the GM. Do what you like.
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HPs (for playing characters) is a catch-it-all value that includes fatigue, stress, demoralization, and actual damage.
250 HPs of damage is something quite lethal but not necessarily destructive.
It's strange that a game so much concerned with combat (not just PFRPG, the whole D&D/D20 thingie since the start) it keeps chugging along such grey areas...
isn't there the scars and wounds rule? When your character takes over half their hp in damage they get apernament injury?
isn't there the scars and wounds rule? When your character takes over half their hp in damage they get apernament injury?
In what book is that.
Since Hit points have been an abstraction since the early days it seems like a strange rule. But then again half the rules seem strange form the rigth point of veiw. :)
isn't there the scars and wounds rule? When your character takes over half their hp in damage they get apernament injury?
There is no rule like that. There is an optional rule that if you take a certain amount of damage in one hit you make a fort save or die.
By the rules the body can still be raised so I would allow it. As long as the body is present and all vitals organs are present it should work. By the rules hit point damage does not remove vital organs.
So even if a character took millions of points of damage he would still be eligible?
Seems strange.
Correct. Anything else is a house rule, which I am not saying house rules are bad, but I wanted to be clear on what the rule was.
PS: This is off topic, but was that mythic power attack? I am just asking out of curiosity. It has no bearing on the question you asked.
Nothing so fancy, just a giant wielding a x4 crit weapon. The giant managed to hit with three attacks and the middle one was the crit.
Damage was something like...
1d8+24+8(PA) [I *think* it was 1d8 for a large Heavy Pick anyway]
4d8+96+32(PA)
1d8+24+8(PA)
For a total of 6d8+144+48 averaging 219
When I rolled damage I mistakenly thought the pick was a two handed weapon which is where the extra 24 power attack damage came from, that combined with rolling quite well put it at 252. The extra damage was pretty meaningless however so I didn't bother correcting it in game.
isn't there the scars and wounds rule? When your character takes over half their hp in damage they get apernament injury?In what book is that.
Since Hit points have been an abstraction since the early days it seems like a strange rule. But then again half the rules seem strange form the rigth point of veiw. :)
isn't there the scars and wounds rule? When your character takes over half their hp in damage they get apernament injury?There is no rule like that. There is an optional rule that if you take a certain amount of damage in one hit you make a fort save or die.
Skull and Shackles player guide, it's an optional rule.
http://paizo.com/products/btpy8rwc?Pathfinder-Adventure-Path-Skull-Shackles -Players-Guide
isn't there the scars and wounds rule? When your character takes over half their hp in damage they get apernament injury?In what book is that.
Since Hit points have been an abstraction since the early days it seems like a strange rule. But then again half the rules seem strange form the rigth point of veiw. :)isn't there the scars and wounds rule? When your character takes over half their hp in damage they get apernament injury?There is no rule like that. There is an optional rule that if you take a certain amount of damage in one hit you make a fort save or die.Skull and Shackles player guide, it's an optional rule.
http://paizo.com/products/btpy8rwc?Pathfinder-Adventure-Path-Skull-Shackles -Players-Guide
ok. I was thinking of Ultimate Combat after I made my comment, but good find.. :)
It's up to you if you want to houserule body conditions for raise dead. I've played in games that don't allow coming back from death period (although they engineered encounters to make these deaths much rarer) so putting a few extra restrictions on lower tier options isn't insane.
If you decide to rule that raise dead can't be used in a situation like this you should let it slide this time and inform your players of how it will work in the future. Getting killed by a x4 crit is punishment in itself and a snap ruling that raise dead isn't good enough without any warning would be kicking someone while they're down.
To further what Diminuendo is talking about:
PEG LEGS & EYE PATCHES
This optional rules system gives GMs a way to assign scars
and major wounds to their PCs. Before implementing this
system, consider these rules carefully. Major wounds can
have major effects upon play, and some groups may not
appreciate such debilitations, preferring the threat of death
and an unscarred resurrection over a thematic crippling.
These rules are a variation on the optional massive
damage rule found on page 189 of the Core Rulebook.
Whenever a character takes damage equivalent to
massive damage, he must make a successful DC 15
Fortitude save or be reduced to –1 hit points and gain a
permanent debilitating scar or handicap. These effects
are randomly determined by rolling 1d20 on the table
below. Effects are permanent and cumulative, though
the GM should reroll results that seem too crippling or
don’t make sense—such as a character losing a hand
two or three times. The regenerate s pell h eals s cars
and restores lost limbs, removing both positive and
negative effects.
Rules for eye patches, peg legs, and prostheses to cover
injuries and replace lost limbs may be found in Pirates of
the Inner Sea.
So, this is a system that instead of death from massive damage, you get a permanent wound according to the table (which I didn't quote). It does not change the representation of hit points from how it currently works. It's just an alternative system to death.
I think - (10*CON) is reasonable to decide the body is paste.
So if your CON is 15 and you're -150 = paste.
I think - (10*CON) is reasonable to decide the body is paste.
So if your CON is 15 and you're -150 = paste.
That's well within your power if you are the GM.
Personally, if you tell me my character is dead and their body destroyed and that a regular raise dead will not function. Then I would tell you I hope you're prepared to me my character's long lost twin brother, identical in every single way. Except he doesn't like peanuts.
And conviently, all his departed brother's gear works well for him.
I think the limitation on damage to the body limitation on raise dead is for damage other than hit point damage, such as when the creature is killed by something like disintegration (all that's left is dust) or dissolved in acid or eaten/digested by something or some of the special monster attacks in the monster manuals, although some attacks that kill with hit point damage could do it too (such as being buried in a rockslide or run over by a steam-roller).
I'm not certain being neatly cleaved in twain by a crit reaches that level. Even having one's head vorpally lopped off would leave a fairly intact body.
I totally missed that part of the S&S player's guide. I wonder if my players would like that.
My table has joked in the past about things becoming a red mist after taking 700+ damage from one of our super optimized corner case characters, but it never happened to a PC.
As an alternative to death from massive damage it might interesting, but anything too damaging to the character's ability to function would probably cause us to prefer death and resurreciton. Though, most of the penalties could be overcome with regeneration or something similar, so I'd be willing to try it out.
in general provided the PC's win the battle and have time to scoop what is left of their friend into a bag there is no reason to assume they couldnt *shudder* mop everything up.
Given how hard he was hit if they had to grab the body and run, it might be reasonable to assume they missed something. But this really isnt needed.
in regards to the Skull & Shackles thing as an alternative to Massive damage it is much better than massive damage. When we did the AP by the time it came up the PC in question could easily make the save.