PFS Sandman (Qadira)


I'm trying to build a sandman, but I'm having trouble figuring out what to build it around... I plan on using the Qadira eastern mysteries, but that's about it.

Originally I went asimar to use the favored class to bump upThe DC of one of my performances, not sure that will work though.

As it is now:
N asimar sandman 1
Str 12, dex 15, con 12, int 12, wis 10+2, cha 15+2

Feat: weapon finesse
Traits: eastern mysteries, ?

No idea what to do with the spells...planned on using a rapier and bucker, to into melee and act as flanking partner, do some damage, and use some nice spells.

I should probably change this up a lot, and I'm only set on sandman and Qadira faction. Please offer any advice.


No thoughts?

You are not going to be a melee monster. Just not going to happen with a 12 Str. I would suggest changing over to a halfling, choosing Helpful as your second trait, and provide flank buddy as you mentioned, but always swing to aid other (need a 10+ to grant your ally a +4 to AC or Attack). That is all I think of right off. If I come up with more, I will let you know!

Not trying to do tons of damage, I also wanna stay as human/asimar/half-elf races if possible

I feel like I'm going to much middle ground for this build, it seems like I either need to focus on spells and performance, or combat ability more, idk which is more doable

Anymore thoughts on finding a nice niche for the sandman?

Please help

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Clarify: "sandman"?

I believe you are referring to a Bard Archetype. If so, what source book is the reference?

Play to the skill strengths of the class.

Sleight of Hand
Disable Device

You'll probably want perception and acrobatic, too, and few knowledge skills.

If you play an Aasimar, pick up blood of angels and go Azata blooded

One option is to simply work towards Dervish Dancer. That would help give you some bite.

@fyre- advanced players guide bard archetype
@tangaroa- is blood of Angels really legal?

PFS Additional Resources wrote:

Pathfinder Player Companion: Blood of Angels

Bloodlines: martyred bloodline is legal for Pathfinder Society but the bonus feat Leadership remains unavailable; Heritages: all heritages, and associated traits, on pages 21-23 are legal; Feats: all feats on pages 24-25 are legal except Supernal Feast; Magic: bard masterpieces are legal; Other: variant assimar abilities are not legal for Pathfinder Society; Oracle Curses on page 26 are legal; Inquisitons on pages 26-27 are legal; Subdomains: all subdomains on page 27 are legal except the whimsy subdomain; Traits: all traits on pages 30-31 are legal except ethical leader. Clergy member is useable once per scenario instead of once per week. Faith healer may be used for Day Job checks.

Yes to hertiages (like azata), no to variant aasimar abilities (the random table stuff)

Yep. Take the Musetouched for Dex/Cha, Glitterdust SLA, and Diplo/perform bonus.

Str 12 Dex 17 Con 12 Int 12 Wis 10 Cha 17. Bump Cha at 4 and dex at 8.

If you want to focus on SoS/debuff spells, drop Str 10 Int 10 Wis 8 and bring Cha up to 19 to start. That's about as good as it gets for DC's for a bard, luckily your spells scale relatively well until level 11 for DC's.

For extra fun, dip a single level of crossblooded sorcerer, get some more cantrips (there are several that are nice), a couple of 1st level spells, and Fey/Serpentine/Undead/Infernal bloodlines (pick 2). Charm/Compulsion +2 DCs, (most bard SoS spells count) the ability to use mind affecting spells on undead, or on animals, magical beasts, and monstrous humanoids (no need to wait for charm/hold monster, just use the person versions).

Character won't see 12th level bump, unless you attend lots of large conventions, since the 12+ games are only available to high rank GMs.

Build to hit the character focus by level 4-6 in PFS, and have some kinda fun thing around 10. That way you get some good time in.

If you're going to focus on the Stealspell feature, consider a +1 Conductive whip. It lets you use the stealspell (supernatural touch attack) through the whip on a successful hit.
Then be a caster nightmare:
1. Ready an action to attack when they cast. (you don't have to threaten since it's a readied action)
2. They start to cast, get your spellcraft check to ID the spell.(free action)
3. Now that you know they know that specific spell, choose that spell for the Spellsteal attack. (they get a save, but you still did damage to begin with, so even if they save, they have to make a concentration check anyways).
4. Profit, and they can't even cast defensively to negate the readied action either.

With sorceror I won't get armor, but I guess I could pick up Mage armor and shield... Is it worth it? It seems this build you suggest is gonna focus more on casting than anything

Should I switch str with wisdom ?

And should I try to pick up disable device as a class skill?
Should I forget about eventual sneak attack?

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32

Snow_Tiger wrote:

And should I try to pick up disable device as a class skill?

Should I forget about eventual sneak attack?

I don't think that Disable device is a good buy for this character. You don't want to spread yourself too thin.

Counterwise, with your original idea of a flanker, you want to make the most of sneak attack.

Lord Fyre wrote:

I don't think that Disable device is a good buy for this character. You don't want to spread yourself too thin.

Seems a shame not to take with a good dex, class bonuses to the skill, the ability to augment it with magic, and the ability to disable magical traps as per the rogue. Picking up a trait to get it as a class skill isn't that much of an investment.

Too bad there aren't any good PFS legal feats to key off of sneak attack - well maybe there is one. You could use this:

Violent Display

With weapon focus, dazzling display, a good intimidate and enough levels of bard you could consistently get dazzling display as an immediate action. But, it would take level ~9 to bring into play.

I'm just going with the first thing that jumped out to me as a specialty when I read the archetype. The first 5 levels, work as a controller, since you can't buff like a normal bard, and your skills are a lot lower.

You give up Inspire Courage, you give up Versatile Performance, and you don't get sneak attack til level 6.

After level 6, you can start getting into melee. I didn't even get into feats, Lingering Performance to let you spellsteal more often. The various Masterpieces (the 10ft movement one is awesome at low levels, until haste/Blessing of Fervor come online).

Pageant of the Peacock will make up for the Knowledge skills you lose.

Sorcerer can cast in armor, so long as the one spell you take doesn't have somatic components, so just look carefully. There's several good ones. Or, pick things that last hours like Ant Haul, Unseen Servant, etc.

How do u suggest I participate in combat at 6th+?

You start getting sneak attack at 6, so that's when you set up the melee flank. With Finesse, You have an attack at +8(+1 Weapon included), doing around d6+2+d6, or d4+2+d6 whip. Once you get Agile, that goes up by 3. Arcane Strike is a good boost, +1/5 levels extra damage as a swift for the round.

You'll want to flank, so +10 to hit. You'll be targeting casters, so that you can take the spells you think/know they have (hence the readied action, so that they lose the whole round as they start casting a spell that is taken off their list in the middle of casting).

Start the fight with Stealspell, move up. Blistering Invective is an amazing debuff spell, since you lose your buff performance. Cacophonus Call or Oppressive Boredom are fantastic spells.

Bardic Masterpieces use performance rounds, but can be done while an actual performance is active, so check those.

You'll never be the main damage dealer, this is the wrong bard archetype to do that, so you have to help tactically. Give the rogue a flank partner, lockdown the caster, debuff/SoS/CrowdControl with a spell.

For fun, if you dip sorc with the fey bloodline, for 5k pick up a Sorcerer's Robe. 3x a day, you can channel the laughing touch into a spell as a swift action. Since Blistering Invective doesn't have a save for being demoralized, you get to pick one target that only gets a move action who is in the range(provided you intimidate him).

Serpentine Bloodline rocks, crossed with Fey especially. I remember using Hold Person on some harpies at level 4-5, the GM just looked at me when they splatted after they fell 100feet after failing the save. But be sure you have the page open to the bloodline before you do it, most GM's need to read it a couple times before they believe it. Also Hideous Laughter on a Winter Wolf was funny.

Feats: Lingering Performance, Weapon Finesse, Arcane Strike or Combat Reflexes depending on style.

So I really should be spending a feat on weapon finesse? Should I spend it on something else?

It seems like so far:
Bard (sandman 1)/Sorcerer (crossblooded: serpentine, fey)1/Bard (sandman) x, or should I change that up a bit?

How should I coordinate my 0th, 1st, and 2nd ish spells/spells known of bard with 0th and 1st level sorcerer spells?

I really like pageant of the peacock, seems I have to wait till 5th level though. Should I take a few knowledge ranks until then, or should I ignore knowledge all together (which I don't like doing)


You still need to have trained to make the checks. Cant recall whether or not you give up Bardic Knowledge or not when it comes to Sandman.

Yes, you give up bardic knowledge for bonuses to Bluff, Sleight of Hand, Stealth and the ability to disarm magical devices.

there are some bard only, lullaby(perception penalty at medium range at will!, -2 to sleep saves, help the stealthies) Sift (quick perception on a room at a penalty, good for when buffs are up to not waste time), Unwitting Ally (if you're short on spells, best thing to do to an enemy rogue, no sneak for a round). Pick 4 from sorc that are nice, D Magic, R Magic, Message, Mending, Prestidigitation, Light or Dancing lights if you care about other people seeing enough. Ghost Sound is awesome with a good GM, worthless otherwise.

1st level Sorc:
You only get one from Crossblooded Sorc, 4xday(5 once Cha is 20+). So pick wisely. Either something you don't care about losing, or something with no somatic components. I like Moment of Greatness, as a prebuff fight spell. 1 min, one time they can double a morale bonus on a roll. A Barb will love it, (damage/hit), once you get good hope up it's great. I also like Illusion of Calm, so that you don't provoke for casting a spell, and you get the first square with no provoke on a move action. Excellent for 1st level spell. Unseen servant to reload your xbow for you each round, saves you a feat (and carries stuff for an hour).

1st level Bard:
grease, Hideous Laughter, Charm Person(with the Serpentine bloodline counts as charm monster for the most part) Ear Piercing Scream, Forced Quiet, Saving Finale is priceless for a normal bard,(although less so for you since you give up performances that work on allies), Vanish, Sleep (trade it out at 5th level, that's when I got Forced Quiet for stealth bonuses)

2nd level Bard:
I'm mostly picking things that are mind affecting compulsions, to take advantage of the bloodline DC boost. Cacophonus Call, Oppressive Boredom, Blistering Invective (debuff with no save and no SR, minor Fire damage) Gallant Inspiration (+2d4 bonus to change fail to success after the roll), Ghostbane Dirge for incorporeals, Blur, Mirror Image, Blindness/Deafness, Glitterdust, Heroism, Hold Person (also monster from the Serpentine bloodline)

No bardic knowledge, but bonuses to bluff so Pageant of the Peacock is just as good.

And once you have Pageant, you don't need any ranks at all, because you use Bluff for all of them. Remember, per the Devs, Masterpieces can be used in conjunction with a Bardic Performance, you just have to pay for both each round.

Take Scion of Humanity so you can have the human Favored Class Bonus extra spell known every level, so you have slots for Masterpieces too. Allies in heavy armor LOVE Triple Time. I just rolled up a level CR 10 Kalavakus Demon at 8th level with Rondeau of the Heavenly Order (so he couldn't maneuver with all the minions well), then hit him with a Cacophonus Call (DC 23). Ended the fight, GM pretty bored.

Your goal is to steal extra spells to cast anyways, if you have a blasty wizard/sorc in the group, ask them if they mind giving up one so you can too. Or a cleric, they get some nice stuff as domain spells that they might not use a lot.

Pages of Spell Knowledge (1st) are 1k, so selling them back for 500 a few levels later means that things like Sleep, (which stops working at level 4-5,) were available for 125-150/level while you needed them.

2nd level are 4k, so use those for things you will actually keep, or split the cost with a sorcerer/oracle for things only one of you needs at a time.

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