RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Often, when trying to decide whether to invest more or less into a PC's attacks or armor class, I reference the monster stats by CR chart in the Bestiary. I can look at the CR that matches my level, compare the sample attack/AC to mine, and see what rolls we need to hit each other, and then decide if any of those rolls are higher or lower than I want/need for that particular character.
However, I just noticed that the chart doesn't contain values for typical monster CMB/CMD. It would be nice to have that information, so a player knows how much to invest in things like maneuvers or Acrobatics (for tumbling), or to invest in resisting nasty maneuvers (like getting swallowed whole).
Anyone have an idea of typical monster CMB/CMD by CR?
Thanks!
Too Freaking High!
Seriously though I would also like to know this, CMB builds are cool, but I don't have a tool for knowing how far from optimal is OK and what will likely just get you killed for trying.
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Stolen from A Guide for Trip Builds in Pathfinder:
...I will be looking at CMB trip at 2 level points. Firstly level 8, as by level 8 the idea of the build should be starting to come together. Then I will again look at the build at level 12 as by then the concept of the build should be well and truly fleshed out. If the concept of the build hasn’t borne fruit by this level, then it probably isn’t worth pursuing. Anything beyond level 12 should be just gravy and level 12 is also the highest level achievable by Pathfinder Society characters.
After presenting the build, I will make some general comments, discuss its pros and cons as well as comment on its secondary role which is necessary for when you come up against creatures you cannot trip. In all instances, we will assume that the character is wielding a +2 magic weapon appropriate to the build by 8th level as well as a +2 Belt of Physical Might (Dex & Str). To be effective by 8th level, your build is going to need a minimum in the vicinity of CMB trip 20+. At 12th level you will need a minimum of 25+. To see why, look at these sample CMD scores of random monsters I selected out of the Bestiary from CR8 through to CR12:CR8
Dire Tiger 35; Efreeti 31; Gorgon 26; Intellect Devourer 26; Mohrg 30; Stone Giant 30; Treant 29
CR9
Mastadon 34; Bone Devil 31; Dire Crocodile 40; Dragon Turtle 36; Frost Giant 29; Night Hag 27CR10
Bebilith 46; Clay Golem 30; Fire Giant 31; Rakshasa 29
CR11
Barbed Devil 34; Cauchemar 40; Devourer 33; Retriever 40; Stone Golem 33
CR12
Lich 25; Adult Copper Dragon 38; Adult Green Dragon 39
There are too many variables to get a meaningful average CMB/CMD according to CR.
Monster size, STR/DEX scores, number of limbs, class levels, any other kind of unique abilities all make for highly variable scores.
A CR 12 lich has a CMB/CMD of +5/25.
A CR 12 purple worm has a CMB/CMD of +32/40 (38 vs trip)
The average is +18/32 but there's a huge standard deviation that just doesn't give a good measure of what to expect.
I just go for the highest cmd for each cr, or close to it, and if I can't hit that 30-50% of the time, in my mind, it's not worth it.
It's difficult, but doable. Consider a 12th level fighter:
+12 BAB
+7 Str (conservative estimate)
+4 Weapon Training + Gloves of Dueling
+4 Improved & Greater maneuver feat
+2 Weapon & Greater Weapon Focus
+2 Weapon enchantment
+31 total so far. Buffs like Heroism, more magic items such as the Ioun stone, better stats, and so forth can push it up even higher.
Check your messages Jiggy
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OK, try this
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stuff