RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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| 11 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
Okay, so I absolutely love the Harrow Handbook, because I can finally REALLY play as Gambit. If you're not familiar yet, go get yourself a copy, it's excellent.
My questions revolve around how Spell Combat and Harrowed Spellstrike might interact. Normally, Spell Combat requires you to be holding a one-handed melee weapon in one hand and nothing in the other. This archetype doesn't seem to change that at all, so it looks like all Card Caster Magi need to have a melee weapon as well (luckily it's compatible with Staff Magus, so I'll be using a quarterstaff as my weapon).
So this means starting at 1st level I can cast a spell and do my full attack with melee weapons in the same round, the same as any other Magus. Fair enough.
However, when you add in the ability called Harrowed Spellstrike, things get tricky (in my mind):
Harrowed Spellstrike (Su): Beginning at 2nd level, a card caster can invest a single thrown weapon with a single touch or ranged spell as part of the spell’s normal casting time. The spell must target a single creature, and the spell’s range changes to match the thrown weapon’s range increment. This ability otherwise functions identically to spellstrike, except it can only be applied to thrown ranged weapons instead of melee attacks. This ability replaces and modifies spellstrike.
So, this means I can start using cards (treated as darts thanks to the Deadly Dealer feat) to deliver my touch or ranged touch spells. Cool.
HOWEVER, it sounds like I can only throw a single thrown weapon during that turn? Is that how everyone else is reading it?Another (potentially huge) problem is this block of text in that ability: "and the spell’s range changes to match the thrown weapon’s range increment". With a dart, the range increment is 20 feet... does this mean my spell's MAX range is then 20 feet? That seems terrible, though I guess it's more than the range would normally be for a touch attack, so there's that.
If, in fact, I will only ever be able to use a single card/dart, at a range of at most 20 feet, in any given round if I want to use Spellstrike, what feats should I be thinking about taking? I'll never need Clustered Shots... should I take Bullseye Shot (which I would never normally consider for a ranged combatant)?
With all this put together, it seems like most of the time I'll want to cast-and-throw a spell on my first round or two, then probably move up and melee attack, then cast a buff spell and full-attack with my quarterstaff. I wonder if trying to be good at both melee and ranged is worth it, though?
RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32
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While it does look as if using this decreases the range of normal ranged touch spells, to me the ability's usefulness comes in having a "free" ranged delivery system for melee touch spells.
You could I suppose wield a dagger (which is both a melee and thrown weapon) and use that to get both Spell Combat and your Harrowed Spellstrike off in one round if you wanted. That kills some of the "flinging cards at the enemy" flavor, however.
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It replaces the free attack you get from spellstrike to be a ranged thrown weapon attack instead of a melee attack. You still get your full attack as per spell combat you just get the free attack as a ranged one from the throw, nothing stops you from making a full attack as long as you can get the weapons out to do the action.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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| 3 people marked this as FAQ candidate. 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
It replaces the free attack you get from spellstrike to be a ranged thrown weapon attack instead of a melee attack. You still get your full attack as per spell combat you just get the free attack as a ranged one from the throw, nothing stops you from making a full attack as long as you can get the weapons out to do the action.
See I thought that was how it worked at first too, but my issue stems from the Spell Combat ability NOT being changed to allow for ranged attacks as part of it. As of now, you can only use Spell Combat along with your full attack action using MELEE attacks. Then the Harrowed Spellstrike allows you to imbue a SINGLE thrown weapon with a spell as part of its regular casting, so I don't see how I would be able to throw any more cards in that same turn.
It may have been intended to work along with Spell Combat, but as written I don't think it does.
Another small issue I thought of... are darts considered ammunition for drawing? As in, will I need to take Quick Draw to be able to draw a dart as a free action, or are they treated like arrows or bolts such that I can draw as many as I need to do my full attack action?
See I thought that was how it worked at first too, but my issue stems from the Spell Combat ability NOT being changed to allow for ranged attacks as part of it. As of now, you can only use Spell Combat along with your full attack action using MELEE attacks. Then the Harrowed Spellstrike allows you to imbue a SINGLE thrown weapon with a spell as part of its regular casting, so I don't see how I would be able to throw any more cards in that same turn.
As written I don't think it works. If this is a home game ask your GM(I'd allow it because its awesome!), if its PFS ask for Errata and hold your breathe!
Another small issue I thought of... are darts considered ammunition for drawing? As in, will I need to take Quick Draw to be able to draw a dart as a free action, or are they treated like arrows or bolts such that I can draw as many as I need to do my full attack action?
Yup, thats where this broke down for me. I was planning a similar build using SLA's for qualifying, but the feat tax was too much every time I tried to do it.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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See I thought that was how it worked at first too, but my issue stems from the Spell Combat ability NOT being changed to allow for ranged attacks as part of it. As of now, you can only use Spell Combat along with your full attack action using MELEE attacks. Then the Harrowed Spellstrike allows you to imbue a SINGLE thrown weapon with a spell as part of its regular casting, so I don't see how I would be able to throw any more cards in that same turn.As written I don't think it works. If this is a home game ask your GM(I'd allow it because its awesome!), if its PFS ask for Errata and hold your breathe!
Another small issue I thought of... are darts considered ammunition for drawing? As in, will I need to take Quick Draw to be able to draw a dart as a free action, or are they treated like arrows or bolts such that I can draw as many as I need to do my full attack action?Yup, thats where this broke down for me. I was planning a similar build using SLA's for qualifying, but the feat tax was too much every time I tried to do it.
Luckily, my GM is going to be awesome and allow me to draw the cards as if they were ammunition, so no Quick Draw required. This build will definitely not be optimal, but boy will it be fun!
Luckily, my GM is going to be awesome and allow me to draw the cards as if they were ammunition, so no Quick Draw required. This build will definitely not be optimal, but boy will it be fun!See I thought that was how it worked at first too, but my issue stems from the Spell Combat ability NOT being changed to allow for ranged attacks as part of it. As of now, you can only use Spell Combat along with your full attack action using MELEE attacks. Then the Harrowed Spellstrike allows you to imbue a SINGLE thrown weapon with a spell as part of its regular casting, so I don't see how I would be able to throw any more cards in that same turn.As written I don't think it works. If this is a home game ask your GM(I'd allow it because its awesome!), if its PFS ask for Errata and hold your breathe!
Another small issue I thought of... are darts considered ammunition for drawing? As in, will I need to take Quick Draw to be able to draw a dart as a free action, or are they treated like arrows or bolts such that I can draw as many as I need to do my full attack action?Yup, thats where this broke down for me. I was planning a similar build using SLA's for qualifying, but the feat tax was too much every time I tried to do it.
Awesome! It should be a blast. Like I said I've looked at that build a few times and couldn't ever make it work, so I'm glad your GM worked it out mechanically with you!
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As written I don't think it works. If this is a home game ask your GM(I'd allow it because its awesome!), if its PFS ask for Errata and hold your breathe!
I doubt that the archetype is even going to be allowed in PFS. But this is due to the Role Dealer ability (which requires drawing cards from a Harrow Deck). This is based on the fact that they don't allow the Harrower prestige class nor the Harrowing spell out of Inner Sea World Guide. That's my opinion, although I think they should allow it but just give back the arcana slot instead of getting Role Dealer.
Regarding Harrowed Spellstrike, it would be nice if it was changed to allow you to use x number of charges spread in the next x attacks. Like if you use Frostbite and get 4 "touches", it activates on the next 4 thrown weapons. On that subject though, it the item does get infused with a multi-touch spell (like Frostbite), can you hit with THAT weapon multiple times until the charges are depleted (e.g. returning thrown weapon)?
I based it off this quote from Mike Brock from yesterday:
Wait, the whole of season 6 is going to be based on a sci/fantasy hybrid? We had a meeting just last week where we discussed season 6 and how it was going to hop around different cool areas of Golarion such as Mwangi, Numeria, Osirion, Ustalav, Belzken, and like 8 other locations. Sheesh, go to a different continent and things go crazy ;-)
There is also a series of blogs planned for June/July that are going to highlight some BIG changes coming to factions.
Did I mention all things harrowing is being made legal the first part of June when I return from Australia, New Zealand, and Singapore?
Just because we decided not to have a tier 12+ for the Special doesn't mean we aren't going to continue sanctioning high level stuff like APs and modules. If things have been slow, it means there is a ton of work on other things going on in the background. Additionally, even though there has been a few comments here, reporting data shows Eyes of Ten part 1 has been run less than 100 times.
Keep the faith. Much more awesome is definitely on the way.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Yeah I'm really hoping that they make the whole book (along with the Harrower PrC and the Harrowing spells) legal. Given Mike's post, I think it'll happen.
Either way, I'm happy to use this character in a non-PFS game for now. I'm hoping to make every possible use of harrow cards I can with him (attacks, spellcasting, thieves' tools thanks to the new rogue talent, etc.)
Okay, so I absolutely love the Harrow Handbook, because I can finally REALLY play as Gambit.
Here's my first wacky attempt to make a gambit-like character for a Ruins of Pathfinder game.....he's starting at lvl 2 so he's got quite a way to go yet, but Im thinking this wacky combination of charged cards at range and charged (elemental) fist for melee will let me get the flavor of gambit's acrobatic fighting style. Aiming to grab Close Quarter Thrower as soon as possible to throw while threatened, but it'll be a few levels before I get Weapon Focus to qualify for it......
Havent started playing him yet, really looking forward to trying it out!