Groteus bad touch cleric

[Airwhale]

So, I accidentally posted asking for help creating a cleric of gorum, when I meant groteus.Ah, poo. So so sorry guys. Although the cleric of Gorum looks interesting too! Thanks for all of the help... it has definitely given me stuff to think about. However, a lot of the advice in that thread isn't really relevant to this character. So I am starting a thread asking for help creating the character I want to play

I was thinking that

-Being a half orc running around telling people about the end of the world would be fun. (Idea stolen shamelessly from http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2oz9g?Help-with-a-bad-touch-cleric-for-PbP)

-Ability wise Strength would have a high priority, which would aid me in hitting my foes, and wisdom would have a high priority to help land curses and such

-having a high wisdom, charisma, and strength just pushes MAD too far... although I guess you could have abilities like Badbird suggests, maybe go 14/12/14/7/16/13 sot that I can get both positive and negative channeling, but 18/13/14/7/16/7, or 16/13/14/7/18/7 just seems so much better in terms of being useful. Once I can afford a belt of giant strength +2 at level 4 or so, I'm doing +7 or so damage with my great axe, and on the first hit I can lead with a curse, inflict damage, or chaos touch.

-Not having heavy armor hurts, which makes me very, very tempted to get a level of fighter. Or burn a feat on heavy armor.

-Go negative channeling for flavor,
So here is what I am thinking right now is the following.
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Ugg:
Fighter 1/Cleric X of grotius

Str:16(10 points)
Dex:13(3 points)
Con:14(5 points)
Int: 7(-4 points)
Wis:18 (10 points) (+2 racial) (level up points go here)
Chr:7 (-4 points)

Domains: Protean and Madness

Traits: Magical Knack (or Magical Heritage (Bestow curse), have not decided yet), Defender of the Society

Feats:Power Attack, Furious Focus (3rd: Reach Spell, 5th: Bouncing Spell, 7th: Persistent spell, 9th: Spell Penetration, 11th: Heighten Spell)

Skills: Perception. One point in Sense motive and spellcraft.

Channels negative energy

Magic item priorities:

+1 weapon (2,000)
+1 Armor (1,000)
+1 cloak of resistance (1,000)
Add spell storing to armor (+3,000)
+2 belt of giant strength (4,000)
Add spell storing to weapon (+ 6,000)
+1 ring of resistance (2,000)
.....

A bunch of other stuff till I get my fame up to 27 at around level 6.

.....

Add conductive to weapon (+10,000)
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Questions:
Is taking the level of fighter a mistake? I really like the Extra AC, which compensates for me being two handed. Does that seem worth it to everyone else? Is Furious focus a good choice for an extra feat? If I go this route, I don't need to go Half-orc... I could go assamar or tiefling if I wanted to cheese it up a bit. Still like the idea of a half orc, though. Would I die in combat if I just went pure cleric?

Magical Knack is better than a free metamagic level for bestow curse, right?

Are the domains good choices? I could only go with one bad touch domain (madness, probably) and then go for a more utility oriented domain, such as void or darkness.

Here is the pure cleric traits and feats, for reference (I think everything else would be the same?:
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Traits: Magical Heritage (Bestow curse), True Believer (+2 on concentration checks, Dragon empire primer)

Feats:Heavy armor(3rd: Power attack, 5th: Reach spell 7th: Bouncing Spell, 9th: Spell Penetration, 11th: Persistent spell)

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[Airwhale]

You know, the darkness domain for this character might be a better fit then the chaos domain. Better spells, but slightly less good touch power. Love any thoughts, again =)

[Airwhale]

Sorry to keep posting on my own thread. But I think I know where I want to go with this: A orc-double axe wielding fighter cleric of Groteus! Double axe! So awesome! I figure I can have spell storing on both ends of the axe, and one-two the bad guys with a curse and blindness at level 6 or so.

So this would bring my build to:

__________________________________________________________

Ugg:
Fighter 1/Cleric X of grotius

Str:16(10 points)
Dex:15(7 points)
Con:14(5 points)
Int: 7(-4 points)
Wis:16 (5 points) (+2 racial) (level up points go here)
Chr:7 (-4 points)

Domains: Protean and Madness

Traits: Magical Heritage (Bestow curse), Defender of the Society

Feats:Two Weapon Fighting, Power attack (3rd: Reach Spell, 5th: Persistent Spell, 7th: Piercing spell, 9th: Spell Penetration, 11th: Heighten Spell)

Skills: Perception. One point in Sense motive and spellcraft.

Channels positive energy

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Is my to-hit too low? Would it be worth getting weapon focus? Double slice? I need to make sure I can hit to deliver my spell-storing or conductive. Do I have all of the appropriate meta-magic feats? I figure power attack would be useful in breaking through DR, and two weapon fighting is useful in delivering spells. I'm also still really interested in making sure my magic/metamagic feats are okay. Do I have too many feats dedicated to spell penetration?

I figure I'd only have conductive on one side of the weapon, and put something more damaging (acid, maybe?) on the other side. Spells on both sides. Figure I'd hit with the conductive side first, use my touch of madness and/or touch of chaos on them, then hit them with my control/debuffing spells. Conductive on both sides seems too much. I could have something like a persistent command on the weapons, for example. The debuffing touch powers make up for my lower wisdom, while crippling my enemies to-hit.

Haven't ever made a TWF in pathfinder, so I'd really appreciate the help with feats, etc. I don't think I'm going to get ITWF, although I suppose I could always get a dex belt or deep red ioun stone if people think it is a good idea.

Thanks!

[Magda Luckbender]

I presume you mean your deity will be Groetus. Seems like fun. OK, here's an attempt to respond:

Airwhale wrote:

Is taking the level of fighter a mistake?

Yes. It seems like a good idea at low level, but you cripple your spell ability at middle and high level. Of course, you can choose to retrain around 5th level, but that's a bit cheesy.

You won't want heavy armor. Mobility will be more useful. A Mithril Breastplate allows you to move at full speed, and is only 3 AC worse than Full Plate. You can easily make up the difference with a buff spell, should you care.

The additional weapons available only get you about 1 extra HP of damage per attack.

Airwhale wrote:

having a high wisdom, charisma, and strength just pushes MAD too far...

Why do you need a high Wisdom? WIS 14 to WIS 16 only gives you one extra on you Bad Touch DCs. Otherwise you will cast mostly buff and healing spells. You don't need that much wisdom.

Airwhale wrote:

to deliver my spell-storing or conductive

What makes you think you will get a spell storing or conductive weapon? If you start at 1st level you will have many levels to go through before that sort of advanced magic weapon becomes available. You didn't say you were starting at high level (which is generally an awful idea, IMHO) ...

Airwhale wrote:

Haven't ever made a TWF in pathfinder, so I'd really appreciate the help with feats, etc.

Two weapon fighting (TWF) is a trap. You spend lots of build resources (e.g. DEX, feats, etc.) just to make it work at all, and it never works very well. This results from the arithmetic of pathfinder combat.

For example, poking things with a sharp stick (e.g. longspear) will be far more effective. E.g. you will hit more often, you will hit harder, and it costs you fewer build resources. Power Attack works much better for two handed weapons. You even get AoOs when it's not your turn. Check out the Reach Cleric guide, and learn about reach tactics.

Airwhale wrote:

Would I die in combat if I just went pure cleric?

No. Clerics make excellent martial combatants. A cleric can make a very effective martial 'tank'. No shield or heavy armor required. Durability in Pathfinder involves far more than AC and HP. Saving throws are also important. Fighter have poor saves, while Clerics have good saves. Most important is probably the ability to mitigate or avoid damage.

By all means, let the dedicated martial combatants take front and center against the toughest foes. That's because you are wiser, not because they are much tougher.

[Airwhale]

Thanks so much for the response!

Groetus. Darn spelling!

This is going to be a PFS character, so we can buy anything we want, once we hit the appropriate fame. The idea behind the double weapon is to be able to potentially deliver two spells or two conductive touch effects through spell storing weapons in one combat, possibly even one round. The damage isn't really important. But being able to throw touch of chaos and a hold person in one round seems really nice. It is like a stored persistent spell.

I figure I would be able to have one end conductive, and the other end spell storing by level 5 or so. I'd be able to have the equivalent of a +3 weapon by level 7. Many offensive clerics I've seen just bash everything in their way anyway till level 4-5 (as opposed to clerics built specifically for support). So this guy will probably just do that, regardless of how this build turns out.

You state that I want mobility in my armor choice. Medium and heavy armor have the same move rate, right? Does that mean I should go for light armor? If I go pure cleric, that puts my base AC (no magic items, no shield, dex 12) at only 15-16 or so. That seems like near the point at which I should just forget about AC entirely...

Most guides I've read (for example, Tarks) suggest that you need a high wisdom for a save-or-suck caster. Do you go against that opinion? A 16 wisdom still means that someone with a +4 will would save against my hold person about half the time, right? I don't like those odds. A 20 wisdom has people only saving like 35% of the time. But if I have the 16 wisdom and can hit them with touch of chaos before hand, that chance to save slips to about 25%. If I one-two them with touch of madness and chaos, it's around 10-15%.

Going as two handed would definitely free up some build points, and I would not have to take the level of fighter. But I would have to wait till I can get a +3 weapon to conduct and use spell storing at the same time(7/8th level), which I get around 4th or fifth with a double weapon (+1 conductive on one end, +1 spell storing on the other. 8k each).

How do the metamagic feats look? Am I missing anything as far as casting goes?

[Magda Luckbender]

PFS characters retire around level 12. Advanced magic weapons might become an option around level 6, depending on how quickly you earn prestige. The first half of your career it won't be an option. More than half your total play time will occur before you can afford such luxuries ...

It seems quite unlikely you'll be able to get off two save-or-suck effects very often. You only have one Standard Action. I suppose you could occasionally manage it, if you build for it from the start and invest heavily. You could accomplish the same effect by e.g. dipping one level in Dual Cursed Oracle (for Misfortune), or by casting Persistent metamagic. You could also accomplish the same effect with a Spell Storing reach weapon, delivered as an AoO. I think you have the right idea to focus on action economy, but there are more effective ways to do it.

Of course you need high Wisdom for effective use of Save or Suck spells. I was just pointing out some ways to free up a few build points. Eliminating TWF does more, as you can then reduce your DEX.

Do you really want to roll with INT-7 and CHA-7 ? This really hinders you out of combat options. I've done so once or twice, and regretted it. Magda is a moron, and this does reduce RP possibilities. It's something to consider ...

Mithril Breastplate (cost 4400 gp) counts as light armor. Improved mobility is probably worth more than 3 AC at the cost of a feat/dip. That's a judgement call.