REA-lly? Do tell me more about how alcohol works. Because I obviously have no idea.Did it ever occur to you that some people can be very good people, just a!##+$#s when they drinkNo, because that is not how alcohol works.You seem to be losing your s*@& over groups having a few drinks with a game. Exaggerating the common effects and throwing in all sorts of doom and gloom situations.
Look just say drinking during a game will cause the dead to rise and end the world already.
Stop attributing to me what I haven't said, please.
It is a risk, certainly not automatic. And the risk is not worth taking, because guess what? Once is too much. Not to mention, I would prefer to keep decent people as friends and not have to exclude them when something happens. Keeping it sober does that. Allowing drinking would not.
Lol, this is entirely your own value judgement and that is it. Doesn't even come close to the risk in reality.
You are really worked up about this, and seem opposed to the whole drinking culture. *shrugs* If that is the cross you want to bear, but be careful of hassling others with your issues and suspicions about what 1 drink can do.
I'll give you an example from a cultural tradition I am familiar with. Amongst the Italians they have grappa. It has a long history and is strong stuff. Many of the working class add it to their coffee as a bit of a pick me up, and then they get to work. It is a tradition. It is old. Now those Italians then go about their day and it doesn't make them homicidal, nutters, collapse or burst into flames. They work, or they read the paper, or they chat with friends. Scary stuff.
Why? Because it is just a shot added to a coffee. It doesn't do much. The dm I am talking about who hated drinking in game, also had a problem with any form of mixed drink, such was the severity of the issues they had. Once they locked themselves into being a**holes to anyone that dared drink, anything, mix, straight or light became off limits. That is what I meant by madness. A peculiar madness needing to control what others drink, even if it is a flavoured coffee.
Funny how a game that starts off most groups in taverns is somehow incompatible with alcohol...And funny how an activity that deals so heavily with killing and combat doesn't get better with real weapons and clashes between the players.
Tell that to LARP-ers
Not everyone flips. Everyone CAN flip. It's really only about circumstances. And seriously, having someone so drunk that they keep moaning about how you're their best friend... that isn't my idea of good gaming.
If that is your argument, that everyone CAN flip, back it up. I want to see you prove it.
Because I have never flipped from a single drink, those I drink with in games have never flipped, and the old working class Italians don't flip after a coffee with a shot. I think you are flipping bul*sh*t into this thread.
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Tell that to LARP-ersFunny how a game that starts off most groups in taverns is somehow incompatible with alcohol...And funny how an activity that deals so heavily with killing and combat doesn't get better with real weapons and clashes between the players.
I guess she would, should she ever encounter LARP-ers enjoying their favorite hobby with real weapons ;-)
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No, I wanted an explanation of how MY intolerance of alcohol was going harm anyone. Prohibition is not a good argument, since I am not a legislator, president, or anyone who can affect how other people live their lives. I'm not calling for banning it, making it illegal, or eliminating from society. I'm saying it's not welcome in my home or at my gaming table. Plain. Simple. I may even go so far as to say, "elegant."Please, do tell my how my intolerance of alcohol will bring harm to another human being. Define it. Explain it. Weave a scenario. My rejection of alcohol is going to bring down society and lay waste to nations.No one ever does think that their intolerance harms people...Well I guess I'll just have to tolerate your intolerance. Apparently intolerance isn't something that harms people...I guess you will, since my intolerance of alcohol doesn't harm anyone. Get over it.Prohibition.
Which lead to strengthening organize crime and eventually the drug trade. One of the most violent, crime ridden eras of American history was cause by an intolerance of alcohol.
*I'm assuming you're not meaning singular cases of intolerance, and just wanted an example where intolerance of alcohol destroyed lives.
Believe it or not the USA is a democracy. Prohibition went into effect because instead of people saying "not at my house" they felt the need to say "not in my country".
I also don't feel that it is right for you to shame people about perfectly innocuous behavior. Which that is what you are doing with your ban on the "evil" alcohol.
Not just in a dm's house though, some people want to control what someone else drinks wherever the game is being held.
Thank universities for neutral ground.
No, I wanted an explanation of how MY intolerance of alcohol was going harm anyone. Prohibition is not a good argument, since I am not a legislator, president, or anyone who can affect how other people live their lives. I'm not calling for banning it, making it illegal, or eliminating from society. I'm saying it's not welcome in my home or at my gaming table. Plain. Simple. I may even go so far as to say, "elegant."Please, do tell my how my intolerance of alcohol will bring harm to another human being. Define it. Explain it. Weave a scenario. My rejection of alcohol is going to bring down society and lay waste to nations.No one ever does think that their intolerance harms people...Well I guess I'll just have to tolerate your intolerance. Apparently intolerance isn't something that harms people...I guess you will, since my intolerance of alcohol doesn't harm anyone. Get over it.Prohibition.
Which lead to strengthening organize crime and eventually the drug trade. One of the most violent, crime ridden eras of American history was cause by an intolerance of alcohol.
*I'm assuming you're not meaning singular cases of intolerance, and just wanted an example where intolerance of alcohol destroyed lives.
Believe it or not the USA is a democracy. Prohibition can into effect because instead of people saying "not at my house" they felt the need to say "not in my country".
I also don't feel that it is right for you to shame people about perfectly innocuous behavior. Which that is what you are doing with your ban on the "evil" alcohol.
The vile grappa of Groetus.
It strongly radiates evil.
I guess she would, should she ever encounter LARP-ers enjoying their favorite hobby with real weapons ;-)Tell that to LARP-ersFunny how a game that starts off most groups in taverns is somehow incompatible with alcohol...And funny how an activity that deals so heavily with killing and combat doesn't get better with real weapons and clashes between the players.
Filthy casuals.
Not everyone flips. Everyone CAN flip. It's really only about circumstances. And seriously, having someone so drunk that they keep moaning about how you're their best friend... that isn't my idea of good gaming.If that is your argument, that everyone CAN flip, back it up. I want to see you prove it.
Because I have never flipped from a single drink, those I drink with in games have never flipped, and the old working class Italians don't flip after a coffee with a shot. I think you are flipping bul*sh*t into this thread.
PROVE it? Seriously? You are aware that that would mean I had to make a study where every single person on Earth was given alcohol and flipped?
What I do know is that people who think they can control themselves with alcohol can and do react badly to alcohol from time to time. Blackouts, violence, vomiting, unconsciousness, that sort of thing. A friend of mine grew not contactable through drinking mead in a sauna, because it was stronger than he was used to and the sauna dehydrated him. Don't tell me everyone who vomits planned to do that.
Not everyone flips. Everyone CAN flip. It's really only about circumstances. And seriously, having someone so drunk that they keep moaning about how you're their best friend... that isn't my idea of good gaming.If that is your argument, that everyone CAN flip, back it up. I want to see you prove it.
Because I have never flipped from a single drink, those I drink with in games have never flipped, and the old working class Italians don't flip after a coffee with a shot. I think you are flipping bul*sh*t into this thread.
PROVE it? Seriously? You are aware that that would mean I had to make a study where every single person on Earth was given alcohol and flipped?
What I do know is that people who think they can control themselves with alcohol can and do react badly to alcohol from time to time. Blackouts, violence, vomiting, unconsciousness, that sort of thing. A friend of mine grew not contactable through drinking mead in a sauna, because it was stronger than he was used to and the sauna dehydrated him. Don't tell me everyone who vomits planned to do that.
I haven't been drunk a lot in my life, but last thing I would be doing was FLIPS.
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PROVE it? Seriously? You are aware that that would mean I had to make a study where every single person on Earth was given alcohol and flipped?
So stop and reflect upon that. Its a ridiculous proposal because it is impossible. Much like your assertion that anyone in the world that drinks alcohol has the potential to "flip."
What I do know is that people who think they can control themselves with alcohol can and do react badly to alcohol from time to time.
And people who think they can game fairly do cheat from time to time. And people who think they're mature enough to accept when their character dies do get angry and argumentative from time to time.
Does this mean we should assume that everyone is a potential cheater and rager when their character dies in game? Should we ban everything that gives a player the potential to cheat and ban character deaths to prevent people getting angry?
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Believe it or not the USA is a democracy. Prohibition can into effect because instead of people saying "not at my house" they felt the need to say "not in my country".
I also don't feel that it is right for you to shame people about perfectly innocuous behavior. Which that is what you are doing with your ban on the "evil" alcohol.
Cite where I have shamed anybody for drinking. I stated what my position on drinking at my gaming table was, and you proceeded to label me as intolerant. I never called alcohol evil. You chose that word. The behavior isn't innocuous if it disrupts the flow of the game, and at my table, it has. Rather than allow it to happen again, I eliminated the problem. As far as the 18th Amendment is concerned, it is irrelevant to a discussion of personal choice in one's gaming group. My player's understand it, and never argued. They said "Okay, you're right. We get kinda goofy and off track." Works for me and them it seems. Doesn't work for you? Run your group your way. More power to you. Enjoy.
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Not just in a dm's house though, some people want to control what someone else drinks wherever the game is being held.
Thank universities for neutral ground.
So far, you and Marthkus have been the only ones telling other people what they should or shouldn't do in their own homes. Hama, Sissyl, and Randarak only spoke of prohibiting alcohol from their own homes, and then you and Marthkus came along and DEMANDED that YOUR rules be instituted in their homes, in the name of "tolerance."
But... I have yet to see anyone suggest a way to know WHO can flip and who can't. Beyond the strikingly immature "Well, >I< could never flip", which everyone can agree on. It's just all those other, childish, persons who can flip when they drink... and everyone who flips has spent his or her life up to then being 100% convinced they could never flip.
So far, you and Marthkus have been the only ones telling other people what they should or shouldn't do in their own homes. Hama, Sissyl, and Randarak only spoke of prohibiting alcohol from their own homes, and then you and Marthkus came along and DEMANDED that YOUR rules be instituted in their homes, in the name of "tolerance."Not just in a dm's house though, some people want to control what someone else drinks wherever the game is being held.
Thank universities for neutral ground.
They're free to do what they want, but if they wonder why someone who doesn't normally drink alcohol doesn't want to play with them because they ban alcohol, then they have their answer.
Part of tolerance is tolerating intolerance, but I don't have to call intolerance tolerance to be tolerant.
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You certainly don't have to tolerate intolerance to be tolerant. Where did you dredge up that? Intolerance is a choice... and it is not intolerant to judge people's choices if they hurt others. Saying you're hurt by not getting to booze at a gaming session, now, that's a bit much, eh?
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But... I have yet to see anyone suggest a way to know WHO can flip and who can't. Beyond the strikingly immature "Well, >I< could never flip", which everyone can agree on. It's just all those other, childish, persons who can flip when they drink... and everyone who flips has spent his or her life up to then being 100% convinced they could never flip.
I don't hang out with a-holes, much less drink with them. That's how I avoid it.
Some people have said that they knew people who were "chill enough" while sober.
If alcohol "makes" them a bad person, then so would a heated argument (anger tends to also push past inhibitions). Personally, I don't want to have to dance around someone's toes because they might "flip" because the only thing stopping them from destroying my house is lowered inhibitions. Maybe you shouldn't hang out with people who deep down want to break your house?
You are the one saying I have to let them before kicking them out. And to inform you, no alcohol has worked perfectly for me, with no complaints. And what is this about "deep down"? You mean alcohol only means you do things you really wanted to, i.e. lowered inhibition is the only effect of it that can be destructive? Honestly?
you know, in Belgium, we have a saying: "Ieder huisje heeft zijn kruisje".
freely transelated, every home has it's house-rules.
if the person I'm visiting doesn't allow smoking inside, and I go there to participate in an RP, I'll ask if he's ok with me bringing a small ashtray, place it outside (terras, backyard, whatever) and take a sigarettebreak once or twice.
if he/she doesn't allow alcohol, I'll give it a try, but probably not be an enjoyable player. I tend to not get into it without having at least one beer.
(when playing, I usualy have a beer every hour)
if people come to my home to game, I warn them upfront:
get drunk before the end of the session, and I'll throw you out on your arse. You're allowed to drink, to smoke, to whatever, but if you can't control yourself, you're no longer welcome.
As much as I am arguing, I would probably take your approach. Unless the GM throws up a couple more red flags.
You are the one saying I have to let them before kicking them out. And to inform you, no alcohol has worked perfectly for me, with no complaints.
Or people too scared of your iron fist to complain.
But... I have yet to see anyone suggest a way to know WHO can flip and who can't. Beyond the strikingly immature "Well, >I< could never flip", which everyone can agree on. It's just all those other, childish, persons who can flip when they drink... and everyone who flips has spent his or her life up to then being 100% convinced they could never flip.
And that's fair, but then you must realize your position is much more closely aligned with: "In my experience, people who drink become obnoxious to the point that I'm not comfortable. Out of an abundance of caution, I don't want anyone to drink at my home/game."
Some people may disagree with you, but such a position is not inherently a bad one. Its only when you try to expand your position further that most people will have a problem with it.
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