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The culmination of several month's work, done more than a year ago, here is my Player's Guide for playing Pathfinder in the Ravnica setting. It is based off of the first block of Magic cards released, and the novels that were written about those card sets. I plan to make and release a Game Master's Guide as well, which will contain the Dimir guild, write-ups for several famous Ravnican monsters, Organization system rules for each guild, boons, a MAP, and more. I've been working on this stuff for a long time.
Without further ado I humbly present:
Ravnica: The City of Guilds Pathfinder Player's Guide
Any feedback, comments, constructive criticism welcome and encouraged. Please use this in your next campaign.
There are several holes in the work rules-wise that I haven't fully fleshed out and will gladly accept any help in doing so, namely the cytoplasts and familiars.
I would also like to maybe make a couple spells specific to each guild, using the Paizo material guidelines and stuff.
I designed this with three ideas in mind: Keep everything as close to the 'canon' of Cory J. Herdon's books and the cards themselves as possible, introduce people to Ravnica who've never heard about the setting, and make each guild have balanced but cool features to make fans of each guild EXCITED to play them. I'm an Orzhov guy myself.
Thanks again dudes, and happy hunting.
Lame. Even as a fan project? Also that was fast.
Did you get a cease and desist from WotC?
It does indeed infringe on copyright, but there are plenty of examples (with their own websites) doing this type of thing, as well as on these boards.
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hmmmm. What would a Paladin do?
Technically, since this is a non-profit work then, according to fair-use policy, you can totally make this So Long as you post a disclaimer stating that you this is merely a fan work and that you credit the actual owners of the IP.
So yeah, do this and its legal, Trust me, people do it all the time, just go on youtube and watch any "Abridged" anime series or Videogame reviewers like Angry Joe or Totalbiscuit.
As long as you aren't selling any part of this, it's legal. Fair Use is pretty clear about that.
Did you get a cease and desist from WotC?
No. (As far as I know.) He/she got input from me, pointing out that copyright is a thing and very much applies in this case and needs to be considered carefully before plunging in.
The topic of Fair Use has been brought up, and rightly so.
I've never said "you will get sued", but rather pointed out that this is not a safe endeavor.
Of note, the article I point to includes such entertaining phrases as "courts consider". We can pause right there and ponder. What does this mean? In a nutshell, it means: you are in court, defending yourself. Wait, what? But what about my defenses? Yeah, yeah, you get to do those, but meanwhile you're in court. Congratulations. You may or may not be able to defend on the basis of fair-use, but by this stage you're already financially and temporally in the hole. You've wasted time and money, which Joe Self-Publisher doesn't toss away lightly.
To expand, just 'cuz... the courts consider:
"the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;"
Well, okay, good on you, you're not charging money, so that's helpful. Doesn't mean you have a get-out-of-jail-free card, just that you have an element where you're not totally screwing the pooch process-wise.
"the nature of the copyrighted work;"
This means basically, are you trying to defend fair use of a song, a movie, an engineering plan, blueprints, Monsato's DNA, and so on. What you're infringing matters. Again, there's no "oh, it's just some DNA so 'case dismissed'." It's just weighting a decision that might be in your favor.
"the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole;"
How much of the original work are you lifting? Writing a novel in a universe where there are mystical powers and you mention in passing that somewhere someone named Luke Skywalker was known to practice them, then proceeding to never mention anything Star Wars-y is violating very little substance from the original. Quoting dialogue is using a heavy portion. Again, the what matters. You can re-use the word "the" as much as you'd like. "In a galaxy far, far away..." is a different story.
"the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work."
And here's where you're probably screwed. WotC makes RPGs Currently they don't support the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game as a ruleset because they're a competitor. Oh-oh. Competitor. That's a Bad Thing, because you're now talking about money. You're potentially draining dollars out of a market (MtG) where people would be paying for this material to WotC and encouraging them to either not pay at all, or pay Paizo for Core Rulebooks. Did I mention "oh-oh"? 'Cuz I should have.
Again, I am not saying there WILL be a lawsuit or a C&D. The question was asked about the legality and the answer is a simple one: copyright is a thing, and if you don't seek permission from the copyright holder, that holder has the right to take action against you. That usually starts with a C&D, at which point you're out nothing but time and effort. Sometimes it's after a community is built.
But we all know the dirty secret here. It's like your parents. It's easier to ask forgiveness than permission, yes? What are the odds that WotC will ever grant permission? I'm guessing not very high. Which says enough - to me. If they won't bless a project, that project exists only so long as a blind eye is turned. Not something I would want to pour blood sweat and tears into project-wise.
My only cock in this fight is that I don't want to see Wuliev get hosed on this. He/she asked a fair question, which is AWESOME. Some of the "do whatever you want... it'll be okay" answers from people who don't have a risk in the matter, including examples of "this guy hasn't been screwed yet" are a disservice, IMHO.
I would just like to say that creative works like this are, more often then not, just fine. Companies like WoTC usually will only sue if there is money involved, issuing a C&D first before taking more extreme action. Again, making clear there is no financial gain from this should garner protection from legal retaliation.
And before you say that, the risk is on Wuliev here, I agree it is. But so is the reward. In the case of digital games, modders more often than not are praised by their community. For most it's an act of passion for their craft, but some use it as work for their portfolio. In some extreme cases they even hire modders for sequels to the games they mod in the case of spectacular work. Perhaps, if WoTC did in fact see that this was so successful they might hire Wuliev for such work in converting MtG stuff to Next or something. He wouldn't have that chance if he doesn't release it.
I'm not saying that he's gonna get hired because of this either, it's a bit of a stretch, but it's probably just as likely as getting sued imo. And I think it's unfair, and more importantly stifling to creativity to simply paint the negative and not the positive.
Still up to Wuliev, it's his call ultimately.
I'd just like to point out that I'm a great big loser.
I missed an opportunity.
You can re-use the word "the" as much as you'd like. "In a galaxy far, far away..." is a different story.
Should have read:
You can re-use the word "the" as much as you'd like. "In a galaxy far, far away..." is a different story. Rather it isn't a different story, which is, in a nutshell, the problem.
Ugh.
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To extrapolate this dilemma for my understanding, and the several implications that this stuff has on my work on the works of several other well-intentioned gentlemen and gentle-women on this sub-forum...
My work is a niche derivative work. Taken from the lore of a card game, concept designs, and a trilogy of books written about that card game lore.
It's solely derivative, I did not make any of the content, I'm just taking pre-existing content and interpreting it into a set of rules, basically to be measured. Then from that data of interpretation, I assemble the information into a neat little package, so it is pleasing to the mind and eye.
If this work that I'm doing is a violation of copyright laws, then what of the other works of this sub-forum that are in effect doing the same thing as I am? Are they violating copyright laws with their works that Paizo publishing has allowed an environment to them to do that express thing? NOT trying to bash Paizo here, they are some of the most beautiful people in the world for doing what they have done in regards to opening tabletop rpg experiences to the next generation of gamers.
I want to beat this to a dead horse so there can be no ounce of hope or doubt which has no tie to legal understanding.
Also I'm a dude.
My work is a niche derivative work. Taken from the lore of a card game, concept designs, and a trilogy of books written about that card game lore.
It's solely derivative, I did not make any of the content, I'm just taking pre-existing content and interpreting it into a set of rules, basically to be measured. Then from that data of interpretation, I assemble the information into a neat little package, so it is pleasing to the mind and eye.
As I understand it, amongst other things the "just" above is one of the heavy points against you. From a strictly legal standpoint, imagine this: Paramount Pictures doesn't make their movies available via streaming video. So you "just" take care of that, taking pre-existing footage and making it available in a fashion that the original creator doesn't bother to. Clearly not going to fly.
There may also be some issue with what "derivative" means. Derivative means derived from. That would be more the inspired-by I've mentioned before than the based-on. A new novel that discusses a race of time travelers using police boxes is derivative. A translation of existing Doctor Who novels into spanish is not derivative.
If this work that I'm doing is a violation of copyright laws, then what of the other works of this sub-forum that are in effect doing the same thing as I am? Are they violating copyright laws with their works that Paizo publishing has allowed an environment to them to do that express thing? NOT trying to bash Paizo here, they are some of the most beautiful people in the world for doing what they have done in regards to opening tabletop rpg experiences to the next generation of gamers.
They are, to greater and lesser degrees. The big difference is that you asked the question regarding legality. It's one thing for an individual to convert a single Product Identity monster from 3.5e stats to PFRPG stats. It's another to lift a campaign setting from one game system and plop it in another. Ask yourself what would happen if you started making a MtG setting for Golarion.
This is mostly a case of turning the blind eye. Most of what goes on in the conversion boards is "how do I make Batman?" That's still not explicitly legal, but it's so singular that it might as well be.
I want to beat this to a dead horse so there can be no ounce of hope or doubt which has no tie to legal understanding.
Also I'm a dude.
All I've ever wanted to do is make sure you're aware that you could, legitimately, be served, which is the question you asked. The odds are... unpredictable, really, since companies like Hasbro protect their properties in unexpected ways sometimes. Statistically you probably won't get a C&D or worse. But the possibility is there and you asked, so I answered.
Copied and posted from the other thread (where Anguish hasn't responded):
The absence of reply was deliberate.
"But Mommy, he's doing it," is no defense and above all not a preventative measure against being served.
I was going to offer a rebuttal but there's no point. Believe what you will, that despite of all evidence to the contrary, that this one particular project is going to earn the wrath of all mighty, all knowing, WotC, and that they'll swoop in and cut its thread short like the norns of old.
I think you are right here. This thread and this project in particular is just way too risky to expand upon. Other major TSR/WotC campaign settings have been converted but MTG's Ravnica is just too precious and monitored by WotC to be converted. WotC has already contacted me for my meager participation in this thread. They found me because I googled "Ravnica conversion d20" and found another forum/wesite/thread that sis some work on converting it.
I was going to offer a rebuttal but there's no point. Believe what you will, that despite of all evidence to the contrary, that this one particular project is going to earn the wrath of all mighty, all knowing, WotC, and that they'll swoop in and cut its thread short like the norns of old.
I marked your comment as a favorite because we're evidently being random here.
Friend, I NEVER said or even implied that this project is in any way special EXCEPT that the OP actually ASKED. So make up all the hyperbolic idiom you want, it doesn't change the facts.
You can adopt the attitude that I am somehow in the wrong on the basis that... uh... reasons, but it doesn't benefit anyone. This is massively frustrating to me because it's tantamount to someone asking "is it legal to speed on the freeway", me coming in and saying "no, with notable exceptions such as passing slow-moving traffic or if you're in an in-service emergency vehicle it is not legal to speed on the freeway" and you coming back with "I see people speed every day and almost nobody gets pulled over, so go ahead and do it... oh, and Anguish is a big poopy-head."
To try to deflect by insinuating that I have in any way implied that this project is especially likely to attract copyright attention is just... blood-pressure inflating. Seriously. Cut it the smeg out. If you want to discuss copyright on the basis of copyright, by all means I will happily do so. But if you're going to continue the absurd pretense that "everyone does it" somehow makes infringement legal, I am well and thoroughly done volunteering my time. Call it a victory if you must, that you've been wrong so consistently that I'm giving up trying to point out how.