I was interested, just because mind you, about what kind of time period we're looking at when it comes to Kingmaker. Seeing as how the kingdom works on a monthly scale, how long does it take in game time to go from small settlement to full blown kingdoms and city(hopefully) Or more precisely, how long does it take over the adventure path.
Also, any idea why I can't buy a physical copy of the map folio from paizo?
I was interested, just because mind you, about what kind of time period we're looking at when it comes to Kingmaker. Seeing as how the kingdom works on a monthly scale, how long does it take in game time to go from small settlement to full blown kingdoms and city(hopefully) Or more precisely, how long does it take over the adventure path.
Also, any idea why I can't buy a physical copy of the map folio from paizo?
Years. Even if you optimize your Kingdom for making money fast. The Rogue in our party became middle aged by the time we stopped playing.
Our human oracle became middle aged in the middle of the game, and realized it an in-game year late. Damn those trained classes. She really hated it (the player) because she had just turned 40.
So we're looking at decades?
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As a thought experiment I ran 12 months of solo kingdom building with some randomly generated leaders. After one year I had a size 11 kingdom that was purring along nicely. It was generating a nice income to finance further expansion or (more likely) some consolidation of the capital city.
After you hit size 10 you're allowed to start expanding faster, although you need to carefully determine if you should. To keep things running securely you should balance expansion with consolidation of stability/economy (and just to be safe, loyalty; you don't need it as often, but when you do you really do need it).
Our kingdom didn't expand a single hex in the first two years, but we didn't have clear idea how to do things. It took us four additional years to becomes a kingdom.
The only problem is the population model. You gotta be careful or your players will be rivaling neighboring countries within 5 years if they have 3-4 settlements.
I appreciate the thought, but I don't want to RUN Kingmaker, ideally, I'm the player, possibly as a rogue getting in on prime real estate for a new thieves guild.
The party I GM are in the middle of book 6 and we have been playing for about 10 game years.
However, I have hand-waved some of the the country / city building elements (We play something that is part way between 'Full Player Development' and 'Kingdom in the Background' rules) and we have a low population development model with few towns and loads of rural countryside.
Each of my players have their own interest areas - the bard (and ruler) has a Palace and a travelling theatre company. The Cleric has a full blown monastery. The Sorceress / Diplomat has all sorts of homes, and runs 'embassies' and trade missions in many neighbouring cities -which provides a network of safe houses for teleports.
Be careful with Thieves Guilds though. The premise of Kingmaker is to build a kingdom that you rule and (sort of) own. Most thieves guilds work against the interests of the city / nation / state they operate in.
In Kingmaker, you can think bigger than that!
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Re:Thieves Guild
Well, the rules do assume a benevolent ruling caste. I can see why you might instead want to subtly structure the state so that you actually profit from it.
That's one of the things that are slightly strange in these rules; the assumption that ALL of the BP generated by the kingdom are FOR the kingdom. Historically, nobles often had a complex administration where some of the taxes went to finance the noble household, and some to finance the state. Considering that the noble also incurs significant costs on behalf of the state (like diplomatic missions), it's not strange to be paid.
Although of course there was also constant wrangling about just how much of the taxes would be spent on what. It wasn't an entirely free ride without any complaining either.
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Maybe a way to do this would be to note a % of state income that may be withdrawn for the benefit of the rulers.
Also, if the rulers have to do stuff for the kingdom (like a diplomatic mission), they're allowed to bill those expenses to the kingdom. Provided that they're not abusing the system (too much), and keeping receipts, this could be done without causing Unrest.
I understand what you're saying, but point in fact, kingdoms will have a criminal element, in a game like pathfinder, it will get organized, be it gangs, thieves guild or a cabal of assassins. It wouldn't be a bad thing to control said criminal element than to let it run rampant and uncontrolled. This is from a roleplay standpoint mind you. They could also be used as a localized spy network, the fact that my PC just happens to make money off it, bonus.
I understand what you're saying, but point in fact, kingdoms will have a criminal element, in a game like pathfinder, it will get organized, be it gangs, thieves guild or a cabal of assassins. It wouldn't be a bad thing to control said criminal element than to let it run rampant and uncontrolled.
Just take the Vetinari policy.
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We established our kingdom in game year 4708 and finished all six books at a rather modest expansion rate by 4715.
So took us about 7 years of game time to play the AP.
This was a bit fast in my opinion. I (and several of the other PCs) would have liked a bit more time in between Books 4,5 and 6 (which almost happened back to back.) Shrug.
Um, no. I like mine, I intend to be stay out of the main leadership, everybody in my group will want to be the ruler, I just want to control an influx of wealth, perhaps become the treasurer
Both are distinct possibilities, but I'm not sure whether the spymaster came from UC or the original Kingmaker, though now that I think about it, I can say the same about treasurer. And are you restricted to one position?
Both where in the original. My group didn't change to UC until Chapter 3, and we had both a Spymistress (one of the PCs) and a Treasurer (Svetlana Leveton) from the get-go.
And no, you can't hold multiple positions.
Damn. I wonder if I could get the treasurer in my pocket. Nah. But keeping an eye on him would be smart.