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So I want to build a character that uses his fists. Not primarily a grappler. The guys who gets angry and hits things.
I am not terribly concerned that this may not be considered an optimal build. But how can I maximize the mechanical results given the following constraints?
1) PFS-legal - so it's a 20 point stat buy
2) Must use CRB and APG only. Exception for builds that take brawler levels. But I don't own Ultimate Combat and I'm extremely unlikely to buy it - so I can't use it for PFS.
3) I don't have all year to wait to be effective. Build needs to be viable at all levels of play, with the understanding that it will likely be better as it progresses.
I had envisioned some sort of brawler/barbarian combo. I don't see any fighter or barbarian archetypes that offer unarmed strike damage progression like a monk's or anything like flurry. So monk or brawler seems like a given as part of this build.
Thanks in advance for the input!
Are you willing to compromise on using unarmed strikes? A Brawler (Fighter Archetype) two-weapon fighting with a pair of cesti is essentially the same thing, only stronger and cooler.
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Now that IS a possibility. Brawler archetype is from UC, though. Still, it' s interesting enough that I'd like to hear more! Would you simply take fighter levels the whole way? Any dip worth taking to just blow it up?
EDIT: I am really interested in the unarmed concept. I'm thinking Jean-Claude Van Damme, that sort of thing. But I do love reading build concepts for almost anything...
I think straight Brawler is the best, though a little bit of Barb never hurt anyone.
You could still push the same concept without the archetype, but it just won't be as strong. Ranger or Barbarian might be better if you go without it.
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I'm imagining a Monk/Ranger multiclass, to let the Ranger's full BAB and favored enemy/terrain buff the Monk's flurry. Trouble is, the Monk's Flurry makes the Ranger's style feats redundant, and vice versa. Plus I doubt you want your brawler having an animal companion, but if you don't go Ranger 4, your Ranger levels don't care that you've got good Wisdom.
All-the-way Ranger wouldn't be so bad. TWF style, good Strength and Wisdom, good armor, and maybe Hunter's Bond to share your FE bonuses? "Let's gang up on 'em, boys!"
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Barbarian does have a couple of Rage Powers involving unarmed combat, if you wanted to go that way Brawler makes your unarmed damage a d6, and Lesser Beast Totem grants natural attacks...
A build combining these things is possible, and not necessarily bad at all, though almost certainly less optimal than a weapon build. On the other hand, a Furious AoMF is really sweet for Barbarians...though that uses Ultimate Equipment, I suppose.
So I want to build a character that uses his fists. Not primarily a grappler. The guys who gets angry and hits things.
...
2) Must use CRB and APG only. Exception for builds that take brawler levels. But I don't own Ultimate Combat and I'm extremely unlikely to buy it - so I can't use it for PFS.
Ooh, that's going to be rough. Well, you have a few archetypes available from the APG. You could also use the Brawler class from the advanced class guide playtest, but...it looks like a stinker to me.
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Ok, so why is Brawler from the ACG a stinker?
It gets full BAB and unarmed strike progression as well as d10 hit dice and 2 good saves.
So out of the box it seems fine. I really don't have experience stacking up feats and class abilities though. My most feat-intensive character is a ranger, and that kind of builds itself once you decide what flavor you want...
I can see that brass knuckles are mechanically inferior to cesti, but would fit the flavor with some degree of reasonableness.
And if you can show me a compelling case, I can consider grabbing the pdf of UC. With the sale this month it would be less than 8 bucks... And then I can play a PFS gunslinger, too.
you should just get the pdf of UC
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UC is going to be worth it for any unarmed specialist. Not only does it have the Brawler Fighter, it also has Combat Style feats, Master of Many Styles Monk, Martial Artist Monk, and Unarmed Fighter. Not to mention all the eastern weapons.
A MoMS 2/ Brawler Fighter x is much more effective and flavorful than a ACG Brawler imo.
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Ok, so let me see. With a MoMS dip, I'm relying on the damage bonuses from Strength, Power Attack and Close Combatant? Do unarmed strikes count as part of the close weapon group for this?
I would be giving up the unarmed strike dice progression, but for many builds this is the smallest part of their damage once they hit mid levels.
What about a Marital Artist/Barbarian? Raging with fists wouldn't be optimized, but maybe the guy was too easily angered to ever learn to use weapons and he's strong enough to not really need them...
unarmed strike is in the close combat group. don't forget about wpnspec.
What about a Marital Artist/Barbarian?Your going to have to do the alignment switch from Lawful to not lawful. Once you do you can't take anymore Monk unless you Atone.
Martial Artist Monks don't have to be lawful
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What about a Marital Artist/Barbarian?Your going to have to do the alignment switch from Lawful to not lawful. Once you do you can't take anymore Monk unless you Atone.
Martial Artist has no alignment requirements.
Martial Artist/Barb is very strong because it allow rage cycling, although honestly, Oracle 1/Barb x is better if that's all you want from it.
What the Martial Artist/Barb brings is great movement, better AC than a pure barb, the ability to specialize in some great weapons like the Sansetsukon, Flurry with Two-handed Power Attack, and then Rage Cycling on top of that.
I think this would be good. Not as good as it could be with more books, but good enough for most games.
Human (Heart of the Fields) Barbarian (Invulnerable Rager)
Str 20
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 7
Wis 11
Cha 7
Traits: Armor Expert, Militia Veteran
Skills: Perception, Profession (Soldier)
Feats & Rage Powers:
1 Power Attack, Improved Unarmed Strike
2 Superstition
3 Extra Rage Power: Brawler
4 Greater Brawler
5 Extra Rage Power: Lesser Beast Totem
6 Beast Totem
7 Scorpion Style
8 Witch Hunter
9 Gorgon's Fist
10 Greater Beast Totem
11 Medusa's Wrath