Gauss, in your example that you've stated a few times... How can the wizard ready an action to both 5-foot step AND cast a spell? Doesn't the readied action have to be for only one action? If he's readied an action to cast a spell at anyone that attacks him, then once the fighter declares his attack, the wizards readied action triggers, he starts casting and triggers the AOO. How can he 5-foot step in there as well as cast?
While we are on the subject of five foot steps. Can You: Draw a weapon (mv), Take a Five Foot Step (no action), and then attack?
Gauss, in your example that you've stated a few times... How can the wizard ready an action to both 5-foot step AND cast a spell? Doesn't the readied action have to be for only one action? If he's readied an action to cast a spell at anyone that attacks him, then once the fighter declares his attack, the wizards readied action triggers, he starts casting and triggers the AOO. How can he 5-foot step in there as well as cast?
From the combat chapter
You can take a 5-foot step as part of your readied action, but only if you don't otherwise move any distance during the round.
stuffFrom the combat chapter
You can take a 5-foot step as part of your readied action, but only if you don't otherwise move any distance during the round.
Awesome, thanks! I had missed that detail entirely, very good to know.
While we are on the subject of five foot steps. Can You: Draw a weapon (mv), Take a Five Foot Step (no action), and then attack?
Yes, you can.
If you have a BAB of +1 or higher, you can also draw a weapon while taking a move action (moving up to your speed) and still take a standard action (attack) at the end of your move action. In this case, there is no opportunity to 5 foot step since you've already used a move action this round.
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Woah, didn't expect this thread to continue.
I'd argue that Remy is right to point out the potential rules discrepancy between the text of Following Step. However to that point, I'll point to the actual text of Following Step
Normal: You can only take a 5-foot step to follow an opponent using Step Up.
The text states nothing about "turns", it simply states that the only way you can follow an opponent using a 5-foot step is by having the Step Up combat feat. And I don't see where it would be wrong: You can ready up an action in response to a 5-foot step, however you wouldn't be following that with a 5-foot step, you would follow it up with an action (under which you'd take a 5-foot step, if legal).
As stated earlier, a 5-foot step isn't an action; it's something you do as a part of an action - thus you cannot ready up a 5-foot step, you can only ready up an action under which you use a 5-foot step.
So per that, the text doesn't break any RAW, it's perfectly consistent with itself. You would follow up with an action, not a 5-foot step.
I would agree with Remy that your turn ends once you've readied up an action, regardless of whether the action is triggered or not, text the pretty much states as much.
TL;DR:
1. Taking a readied action doesn't count as "your turn",
2. You cannot directly follow up an opponent who preformed a 5-foot step without the Step Up feat
While we are on the subject of five foot steps. Can You: Draw a weapon (mv), Take a Five Foot Step (no action), and then attack?
Yes, you can. ;)
TL;DR:
1. Taking a readied action doesn't count as "your turn",
2. You cannot directly follow up an opponent who preformed a 5-foot step without the Step Up feat
No. Just no.
This is why you can't explain the rules without the dm wanting to beat you over the head with the core rule book. They're worried someone is going to try an argument like this.
TL;DR:
1. Taking a readied action doesn't count as "your turn",
2. You cannot directly follow up an opponent who preformed a 5-foot step without the Step Up featNo. Just no.
This is why you can't explain the rules without the dm wanting to beat you over the head with the core rule book. They're worried someone is going to try an argument like this.
Huh? Did I get something wrong?
I've always held the philosophy to "always know the rules you're breaking."
TL;DR:
1. Taking a readied action doesn't count as "your turn",
2. You cannot directly follow up an opponent who preformed a 5-foot step without the Step Up featNo. Just no.
This is why you can't explain the rules without the dm wanting to beat you over the head with the core rule book. They're worried someone is going to try an argument like this.
Huh? Did I get something wrong?
I've always held the philosophy to "always know the rules you're breaking."
You cannot directly follow up an opponent who preformed a 5-foot step without the Step Up feat
By that same logic, you can't 5 foot step after an opponent when it is your turn.
Init count 18: wizard 5 foot steps and casts
Init count 12: fighter 5 foots up...
Nope! doesn't have the following step feet. He can 5 foot step in any direction BUT towards the wizard....
You're also preventing the 5 foot step, which is specifically allowed.
You can take a 5-foot step as part of your readied action, but only if you don't otherwise move any distance during the round.
So yes, it is your turn when you ready an action.
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TL;DR:
1. Taking a readied action doesn't count as "your turn",
2. You cannot directly follow up an opponent who preformed a 5-foot step without the Step Up featNo. Just no.
This is why you can't explain the rules without the dm wanting to beat you over the head with the core rule book. They're worried someone is going to try an argument like this.
Huh? Did I get something wrong?
I've always held the philosophy to "always know the rules you're breaking."
You cannot directly follow up an opponent who preformed a 5-foot step without the Step Up feat
By that same logic, you can't 5 foot step after an opponent when it is your turn.
Init count 18: wizard 5 foot steps and casts
Init count 12: fighter 5 foots up...
Nope! doesn't have the following step feet. He can 5 foot step in any direction BUT towards the wizard....
You're also preventing the 5 foot step, which is specifically allowed.
You can take a 5-foot step as part of your readied action, but only if you don't otherwise move any distance during the round.
So yes, it is your turn when you ready an action.
Sorry, but I think you must have misunderstood my post - I was replying directly to the discussion that erupted following my earlier post where I answered the question I initially posed with this thread.
If a player performs a 5-foot step during his turn, then you cannot immediately respond to it with a 5-foot step of your own, unless you have the Step Up (combat) feat. You can respond if you had a readied action prepared against such a scenario, however you wouldn't be responding to it with a 5-foot step (you cannot ready up a 5-foot step, as it isn't an action) - you'd be responding to it with the readied action, which comes with the possibility for a 5-foot step.
As per a direct reading of the rules, the triggered readied action would be performed outside of your own turn (it's interrupting another character's turn - akin to an AoO). But the fact that it isn't your turn in this scenario doesn't change anything.
It's your turn when you ready up an action, obviously - but it isn't your turn when you choose to act on its trigger, just as it isn't your turn when you choose to act on an AoO. The technical difference here would be that an AoO isn't an "action" (per rules), which means you cannot take a 5-foot step during an AoO - however, taking a triggered readied action is an action, which permits you to take 5-foot steps.
I apologize that I didn't make myself clear the first time around. :S And by all means point out any mistakes I might have made - I like being wrong, it means I'll likely be less wrong next time.
TL;DR:
1. Taking a readied action doesn't count as "your turn",
2. You cannot directly follow up an opponent who preformed a 5-foot step without the Step Up featNo. Just no.
This is why you can't explain the rules without the dm wanting to beat you over the head with the core rule book. They're worried someone is going to try an argument like this.
Huh? Did I get something wrong?
I've always held the philosophy to "always know the rules you're breaking."
You cannot directly follow up an opponent who preformed a 5-foot step without the Step Up feat
By that same logic, you can't 5 foot step after an opponent when it is your turn.
Init count 18: wizard 5 foot steps and casts
Init count 12: fighter 5 foots up...
Nope! doesn't have the following step feet. He can 5 foot step in any direction BUT towards the wizard....
You're also preventing the 5 foot step, which is specifically allowed.
You can take a 5-foot step as part of your readied action, but only if you don't otherwise move any distance during the round.
So yes, it is your turn when you ready an action.
Sorry, but I think you must have misunderstood my post - I was replying directly to the discussion that erupted following my earlier post where I answered the question I initially posed with this thread.
If a player performs a 5-foot step during his turn, then you cannot immediately respond to it with a 5-foot step of your own, unless you have the Step Up (combat) feat. You can respond if you had a readied action prepared against such a scenario, however you wouldn't be responding to it with a 5-foot step (you cannot ready up a 5-foot step, as it isn't an action) - you'd be responding to it with the readied action, which comes with the possibility for a 5-foot step.
As per a...
You can read the line from Following Step in 2 ways. I want that to be perfectly clear.
Within the English language, it can be read in 2 very different ways.
If you read it, and only see 1 possible meaning, try again until you see both.
1. The only way you can ever follow an enemy is if you have the Step Up feat.
-or-
2. Step Up only lets you go a total of 5 ft.
#1 is the wrong reading.
That has, and continues to be my point. Both are theoretically RAW. Because the line "You can only take a 5-foot step to follow an opponent using Step Up." does in fact mean both things...
But one of those meanings is clearly false. And the other makes a TON more sense, since you know, it is actually relevant to the Following Step feat in which it is found...
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Remy is correct in that #2 is the correct meaning of that sentence, since the context is contrasting what you can do with the Following Step feat. However, #1 is true anyway, for reasons not associated with the 'normal' line of the Following Step feat.
Step Up gives you an ability to do something that you can't normally do: take a 5-foot step on an opponent's turn, and even then only if he triggers it by making a 5-foot step of his own, and you burn your immediate action to do so. If you have the feat you can, if you don't you can't.
If anyone could take a 5-foot step during an opponent's turn without a feat, then this feat would be worse than useless.
You can read the line from Following Step in 2 ways. I want that to be perfectly clear.
Within the English language, it can be read in 2 very different ways.
If you read it, and only see 1 possible meaning, try again until you see both.
1. The only way you can ever follow an enemy is if you have the Step Up feat.
-or-
2. Step Up only lets you go a total of 5 ft.#1 is the wrong reading.
That has, and continues to be my point. Both are theoretically RAW. Because the line "You can only take a 5-foot step to follow an opponent using Step Up." does in fact mean both things...
But one of those meanings is clearly false. And the other makes a TON more sense, since you know, it is actually relevant to the Following Step feat in which it is found...
I think I get what you're saying, and I can concede that the wording in the Following Step (combat) feat is meant towards the Step up (combat) feat. However, that doesn't change the conclusion that I've drawn already - unless you're contesting that? Because in either case of the wording, the result still speaks to the explicit concession that "you cannot respond to a 5-foot step without an external component" (such as an explicit readied action - though I dunno if I agree that you can even ready up an action against a 5-foot step).