Knowledge (Arcana) allows you to identify a spell effect that is in place (CD 20 + spell level), a spell that just targeted you (CD 25 + spell level) and the spells cast using a specific material component (CD 20).
Spellcraft allows you to identify a spell as it is being cast (CD 15 + spell level).
Which skill should be used to determine if a character knows the existence of a particular spell and is able to plan to take advantage of its effects or avoid them?
Let's suppose I am a bard and I want to know the spell Magic Missile is on the wizard's spell list and its approximate effects, the spell Detect Evil is on the cleric's spell list and its approximate effects, and the spell Entangle is on the druid's spell list and its approximate effects.
What should I roll? And what should the DC be?
As a DM, I would establish the skill involved is Knowledge (Arcana), with a DC of 10 + spell level.
Do you think it is appropriate?
Sounds fair to me. If you're being jerkish you could split it up based on where the spells come from (IE Cleric spells require Knowledge: Religion and Druid spells required Knowledge: Nature) but that's not really necessary.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you're looking for a way to look at a character and know what spells they know? Or am I completely missing the idea here? Doesn't sound like something you should be able to do at all. Or are you asking about knowing that character is a cleric, therefore his spell list of possible spells is _________?
I thought it was the latter. Basically a way to give your character the meta-knowledge that you have "realistically".
Personally I think that kind of knowledge is just part of the game and ignoring it to stay in character hurts more than it helps. It isn't very fun to get deliberately floored by a caster just because my character wouldn't be aware of what to look out for and try to avoid.
I can see the check to determine what type of caster a character is, though. Figuring out Prepared/Spontaneous and Arcane/Divine is useful information that you wouldn't necessarily have as a player.
The way they cast it, I think. This isn't really written into the rules but I think prepared casters like wizards would require more of a focus on incantations and gestures, compared to the spontaneous casters who's magic just is.
I'm kinda just pondering at this point, this wouldn't be an argument worth bringing to a Society or other rule-rigged game.
As a DM, I am trying to give the characters an in-universe method to know what the players know about spells (and similar effects) by reading the rulebooks, on the basis of the characters' culture (measured by the ranks invested in the Knowledge skills).
It's not my intention to allow them to identify the class of a spellcaster by watching the spells he casts, or to be aware of any obscure, secret or forgotten magical lore.
The situations I want to manage are similar to those in the following examples:
- "My sorcerer is suffering a deadly disease. Does he know if there is a spell which can heal him and where should he go to get it?"
- "Our cleric has just been disintegrated. Does my bard know we should search for a divine spellcaster capable of casting a Resurrection spell to bring our friend back?"
- "Considering our paladin friend is as smart as a rock, can my wizard suggest him to use his Detect Evil on this mysterious stranger who is drinking blood from a chalice in front of us?"
- "People tell us a criminal has the superhuman ability of moving faster then the blink of an eye. Can my unusually erudite fighter guess this person is using a Dimensional Door spell or spell-like ability?"
- "My inquisitor is going against a notorius wizard. Does he knows his enemy can potentially cast Magic Missiles? Is it legit for him to buy a Brooch of Shielding?"
As a DM, I am trying to give the characters an in-universe method to know what the players know about spells (and similar effects) by reading the rulebooks, on the basis of the characters' culture (measured by the ranks invested in the Knowledge skills).
It's not my intention to allow them to identify the class of a spellcaster by watching the spells he casts, or to be aware of any obscure, secret or forgotten magical lore.
Treat the spells as creatures that you need the Knowledge(Arcana) to determine. DC = 15 + Spell Level (SL). Common spells DC = 10 + SL, and rare spells are DC = 20 + SL. I personally think that they should be split into K(Arcana) and K(Religion), and it you use Arcana on a divine only spell (or Religion on arcane only) then the DC is 5 worse. You can also use K(Local) for knowing spells as used in the area, or by a notable caster. Other K(x) could be used if a suitable and reasonable cause can be given by the player.
The situations I want to manage are similar to those in the following examples:
- "My sorcerer is suffering a deadly disease. Does he know if there is a spell which can heal him and where should he go to get it?"
Common knowledge that healing is something Divine casters do.
K(Religion) for the specific spell.- "Our cleric has just been disintegrated. Does my bard know we should search for a divine spellcaster capable of casting a Resurrection spell to bring our friend back?"
Common knowledge that high powered magic needed.
K(Arcana) that it was the Disintegrate spell, with the info on how to reverse it.K(Religion) that high level divine casters can help even if spell not determined.
K(Religion, hard) that Resurrection will suffice and need to bring dust.
- "Considering our paladin friend is as smart as a rock, can my wizard suggest him to use his Detect Evil on this mysterious stranger who is drinking blood from a chalice in front of us?"
Common knowledge that bloodsuckers are evil. No K(x) needed.
This needs either Diplomacy to convince the Paladin to use Detect Evil against the nice stranger. :-) Or perhaps Bluff to convince the Paladin they won't fall.- "People tell us a criminal has the superhuman ability of moving faster then the blink of an eye. Can my unusually erudite fighter guess this person is using a Dimensional Door spell or spell-like ability?"
K(Arcana) to ID the spell from a description. Probably DC 20 like for ID from material component.
- "My inquisitor is going against a notorius wizard. Does he knows his enemy can potentially cast Magic Missiles? Is it legit for him to buy a Brooch of Shielding?"
K(Local) [or K(Nobility) if well placed wizard] to know standard spells used by said wizard.
/cevah