The Evangelist – An Exercise in Tomfoolery


Rules Questions

Contributor

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Alright, so as many people likely know there is a new Prestige Class in Inner Sea Gods called the Evangelist that has the rather unique ability of adding your Prestige Class level –1 to one other class that you belong to of your choice when determining what abilities you possess from that class. It's a rather neat ability that was likely designed to be the [CLASS] as a Priest option.

In all of my musings, the trade-off isn't worth it for base classes. You lose a level in your standard progression for a small smattering of benefits. Short-term, you're one level behind a typical member of your class. Long-term, you don't get your capstone. Kind of weak.

Ironically enough, however, this Prestige Class gets a bit strange when you start to consider its uses with other Prestige Classes. Let's pretend that I am a devout follower of Norgorber, the god of assassins. I advance through the early game as a slayer and at level 7, I decide to take a level of assassin. Then I become an Evangelist and at Level 2, I choose Assassin as my Aligned Class.

Huh.

I already have one level of Assassin. Then I stack 2nd level through 10th level with my Assassin level to determine what Assassin class features I have. That's 10 levels of Assassin, meaning I get all of the Prestige Class abilities from Assassin and Evangelist.

Any thoughts on this?


I don't have a copy handy, however I thought the Align Class feature only allowed for base classes and not prestige classes.


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PrinceDogWaterIII wrote:
I don't have a copy handy, however I thought the Align Class feature only allowed for base classes and not prestige classes.

Only uses the word Class. Relevant text:

Aligned Class wrote:
Evangelists come from many different backgrounds, and they show an unusual range of diversity. At 2nd level, the evangelist must choose a class she belonged to before adding the prestige class to be her aligned class. She gains all the class features for this class, essentially adding every evangelist level beyond 1st to her aligned class to determine what class features she gains. She still retains the Hit Dice, base attack bonus, saving throw bonuses, and skill ranks of the prestige class, but gains all other class features of her aligned class as well as those of the evangelist prestige class.

The class looks like its built for rogues if you just look at its saves.

Scarab Sages

Actually, the Aligned class feature mentions a class she belonged to before becoming an Evangelist, so it COULD work with prestige classes. It also seems to increase spell progression with every level if you choose a class with spellcasting for Evangelist, which has interesting implications for arcane spellcasters and classes like Arcane Trickster.


Not sure if itz relevant but I didn't see any prc in the samples used.

Contributor

Mojorat wrote:
Not sure if itz relevant but I didn't see any prc in the samples used.

Where the word "class' is concerned, the rules don't really distinguish between base classes, core classes, and prestige classes. As a matter of fact, the only reason that the favored class mechanic doesn't include Prestige Classes is that the favored class entry in Chapter 3 of the Core Rulebook specifically calls out Prestige Classes as an exception to the rule.

In other words, Prestige Classes are classes and should be align-able, leading to awesome combos like:

— The Norgorber Assasin Evangelist
— The Zon-Kuthon Umbral Court Evangelist
— The Sarenrae Dawnflower Dissident Evangelist
— The Achaekek Red Mantis Assassin Evangelist

And more!


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

What about something like this?

Cleric 5
Exalted 1
Evangelist 10 (with Aligned Class being Exalted)

Is there anything to prevent this? Would you get 6 Divine Boons?

Shadow Lodge

Xethik wrote:

What about something like this?

Cleric 5
Exalted 1
Evangelist 10 (with Aligned Class being Exalted)

Is there anything to prevent this? Would you get 6 Divine Boons?

Only the text of the Deific Obedience feat that says that you lose access to the Exalted line of boons by taking levels in Evangelist or Sentinel.


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
Dylos wrote:
Xethik wrote:

What about something like this?

Cleric 5
Exalted 1
Evangelist 10 (with Aligned Class being Exalted)

Is there anything to prevent this? Would you get 6 Divine Boons?

Only the text of the Deific Obedience feat that says that you lose access to the Exalted line of boons by taking levels in Evangelist or Sentinel.

Ah, okay. I missed that exact wording. But what would happen if you did the same with Sentinel? Would you only gain the Evangelist as it is the one you gain later?

I don't think this would be particularly viable ever, but more of a question of possibility and rules breaking.

Contributor

Xethik wrote:
Dylos wrote:
Xethik wrote:

What about something like this?

Cleric 5
Exalted 1
Evangelist 10 (with Aligned Class being Exalted)

Is there anything to prevent this? Would you get 6 Divine Boons?

Only the text of the Deific Obedience feat that says that you lose access to the Exalted line of boons by taking levels in Evangelist or Sentinel.

Ah, okay. I missed that exact wording. But what would happen if you did the same with Sentinel? Would you only gain the Evangelist as it is the one you gain later?

I don't think this would be particularly viable ever, but more of a question of possibility and rules breaking.

If you take levels in one of the prestige classes, you lose access to the boons of the other prestige classes.

So no, if you were to do Evangelist Sentinel, your Evangelist's Aligned Class ability would grant you the Sentinel's boons at one level later but you wouldn't gain the Evangelist's boons when you would normally acquire them.


Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I hate making this argument, but I'm going to for the sake of PFS.

Here is the wording I have for the feat:

Quote:
Certain prestige classes gain access to these boons at lower levels as a benefit of their prestige class. If you have no levels in one of these prestige classes, you gain the boons marked as exalted boons. If you later take levels in sentinel or evangelist, you lose access to the exalted boons and gain access to the new boons appropriate to your class. If you ever fail to perform a daily obedience, you lose all access to the benefits and boons granted by this feat until you next perform the obedience.

It only says you lose exalted boons. Upon taking Sentinel, you gain Sentinel boons. Then, when you later pick up Evangelist, you gain Evangelist boons. RAW, isn't that what it is saying?

There is ambiguity with the or. That, in my opinion, is impossible to tell which is intended and which is RAW.


You get up to 9 levels of pseudo-gestalt, but it's contingent on obediences. If you can't perform, either because you get ambushed in the morning or because you lose your incense or whatever, you lose them. I don't like that mechanic. It's too much riding on the GM letting you do your ceremonies.

It looks cheesy, but it's all too easy for the cheese to be on you.


Me want Evangelist Evangelist.

Preach it brother!


Blinks at the "Must have 5 ranks in a skill OTHER than knowledge religion." How on earth does that work on a priest prestige class.

"Hi father I wish to join your order."
"Tell me my son the name of your god."
"I worship he who walks behind the rows."
"There is no place for you here."
"What, why?"
"You know the name of your god."
". . ."

EDIT
I know deific obedience requires religion 3 its just "Must have rank 5 in a skill other than religion" or "able to cast 3rd level spells" seems a really clunky way to say "You must be 5th level to take this class."

Liberty's Edge

Liam Warner wrote:
Blinks at the "Must have 5 ranks in a skill OTHER than knowledge religion." How on earth does that work on a priest prestige class.

Evangelist is the 'skilled' one of the three Divine Obedience prestige classes. The one Rogues are intended to be able to take and have that be a good idea that allows you to continue grabbing lots of skills. Heck, it even adds two additional class skills of your choice. Needing to have multiple skills actually makes more sense than the other requirements do.

Dark Archive

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I like the evangelist. As most players never make it to 20th level the capstone ability does not come into account and in exchange you get some abilities along with your normal class (even if it is a level behind). Plus there are other PRC's that do this such as the Winter Witch and the hell knight signifier


brad2411 wrote:
Plus there are other PRC's that do this such as the Winter Witch and the hell knight signifier

Winter Witch also takes away a level of spellcasting and requires a specific archetype though, if I remember right.

Liberty's Edge

MrSin wrote:
brad2411 wrote:
Plus there are other PRC's that do this such as the Winter Witch and the hell knight signifier
Winter Witch also takes away a level of spellcasting and requires a specific archetype though, if I remember right.

Evangelist takes away a level of spellcasting (or whatever) and requires a Feat.

Liberty's Edge

Actually, as written, Deific Obedience gives you Exalted Boons if you don't have levels in a PrC that grants divine boons. The moment you pick up one of the PrC's that grant divine boons, you get those instead. Deific Obedience does not say that you can only get boons of one type, only that it replaces the default boons with specific boons. There is no wording that I have found that says you can only have one set of divine boons, or that precludes you from gaining multiple sets of boons. I would love to see the text that says otherwise, because I have been searching for a while.

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